Dancer Archive
Thread: Brainstorm Topic Improving Mind Buff Accessibility
Reachwind
Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:59 am
#40
Make buffs only available in certain cities. Like the ID tents - add buff shops. The cantina would work for healing but buffs would have to be done near buff terminals... Same as ID.
By limiting the number of places buffs could be done those people that want to give buffs would be easier to find.
Drygo
Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:15 pm
#41
Alright, I have a confession to make. Last night after going back and forth all day on the pro/anti buffbot sticky thread I became really disgusted at the constant arguing back and forth. As much as I was disagreeing (vehemently) with a certain poster in that thread, she did have at least one valid point. That is, trying to find a middle ground and offering solutions. So, I PM'ed Panthu and asked about possibly having a thread devoted entirely to brainstorming ideas where both ents and combat players can be in a win/win situation in regards to buffs, that had nothing to do with healing, that could stay on the front page, and consolidate the many different ideas we have. Because a lot of us really do have a lot of good ideas. But, generally, one person will post something, and then a week later it's on page 10, and then another person will do the same thing. So, all of these good ideas end up getting lost on the forums. So, I thought maybe consolidation and stickying this focussed yet consolidated thread might be a good idea. I'm only saying this because I don't want anyone to take offense or think that Panthu (or myself) was trying to draw focus away from the other threads with the great ideas. It was merely an attempt to put it all together and keep it on page 1. 
This has the added bonus of deterring people who claim that we ents don't want to offer any solutions, and that we just want to kill the buffbots, and that we're extremists. 
This has the added bonus of deterring people who claim that we ents don't want to offer any solutions, and that we just want to kill the buffbots, and that we're extremists. So, anyway, I don't have any new ideas here, but I have a few thoughts. First, I'm a combat player as well, so I understand that there was a point in time where mind buffs were often unavailable and I had a lot of trouble finding one. I think we as a community have to make certain concessions and be honest with ourselves and others if we're going to get anywhere. Oddly enough, even though I don't use buffbots, mind buffs are even more available to me now because I have a lot more contacts than I used to, despite the fact that there are so many of us who have left due to afk and buffing. However, I think that it doesn't hurt to try to help out, try to bridge the gap between different types of players, and try to offer solutions that can be beneficial to everyone. Just like I don't consider myself to be a dancer whose primary focus is interaction with the crowd, there are a lot of combat players who don't want interaction. They just want a buff and they want to leave. There's some validity there. If they don't want to interact with us, if that is unenjoyable to them, then so be it. I'm not saying everybody should get everything on demand. But, I do believe that some playstyles may find it difficult to get buffs and I don't see the point in trying to restrict their efforts to get them just because some of us may feel like people should have to talk to us.
While I do believe that improvements such as a quicker buff or a better buff are wonderful, especially for an atk performer, they really don't address the issue of accessibility. A "revamp" of buffing doesn't really address the availability issue, which is what the focus of this thread is. And, while I do like Dreamland's idea, it doesn't necessarily address "availability." I also don't think that a completely passive buff addresses this issue either. After all, how many situations are there where you feel the need to buff more than 20 people? And, the thing about passive buffing. Yes, I suppose that technically might make them more available. However, the whole point of me suggesting a topic such as this was to find a middle ground where combat players get their buffs, but we still get paid for the buffs. Not for talking to people. That's another very valid way to get paid. But, some of us aren't as good as that sort of thing. I willingly admit that I'm not the best at that type of gameplay. I'm only talking about buffing here, pure and simple buffing. How can we make them more available and still get paid for just the buffing activity? And, as wonderful as it sounds that people will tip us out of their own kindness, I have no reason to believe that would ever happen. It never happened with pure and simple healing, and I strongly suspect we'd meet the same fate when it comes to buffing.
Anyway, I've blabbered long enough and gone off topic enough on my own idea, so I'll just reiterate some ideas I've seen that I think are great in the areas of actually improving accessibility and providing us with an income.
Self Buffing. Yes, that seems like a selfish request, and it is. However, I know several entertainers who dropped dance or music because they could not self buff. They didn't see the point of having a profession where they couldn't use their abilities on themselves. Allowing us to self buff would increase the amount of entertainers on a server at any given time, thereby increasing the availability of buffs.
I think a /services channel is a good idea as well. Even though many services now have an /ent channel, a lot of people don't know about it. The majority of people don't read the forums. And, besides I kind of like the /ent channels being there for us to chitchat without intrusion sometimes. A /services channel would be more widely known an increase contact between those seeking a buff and those wanting to provide a buff. The same thing holds true for the /registration bug. That would be great if it were fixed as well. Player created buff missions might be nice as well to increase communication and availability among interested parties, although I'm not sure exactly how that would work because when most people want buffs they want them immediately. And there'd be some time involved between someone listing a mission and an entertainer finding it and going to the mission.
A /services channel would be more widely known an increase contact between those seeking a buff and those wanting to provide a buff. The same thing holds true for the /registration bug. That would be great if it were fixed as well. Player created buff missions might be nice as well to increase communication and availability among interested parties, although I'm not sure exactly how that would work because when most people want buffs they want them immediately. And there'd be some time involved between someone listing a mission and an entertainer finding it and going to the mission.I really like the idea of NPC entertainer missions with huge payouts. Not cuz I'm greedy. But, as we all know, our "cost" has always been time. Being able to receive 50K for doing a gig at an out of the way place has several benefits. We get to travel, we get paid no matter what, and we find ourselves available in obscure places where people would love to see us perform, receive healing, and get mind buffs. 50K is paltry compared to the multiple mission payouts of combat players over the course of an hour. It wouldn't be unbalancing. And, it would require us to be some place for a lengthy amount of time to service the public. Who knows, many of us may even find we like it there and are getting a steady stream of business and would stay longer.
But, as we all know, our "cost" has always been time. Being able to receive 50K for doing a gig at an out of the way place has several benefits. We get to travel, we get paid no matter what, and we find ourselves available in obscure places where people would love to see us perform, receive healing, and get mind buffs. 50K is paltry compared to the multiple mission payouts of combat players over the course of an hour. It wouldn't be unbalancing. And, it would require us to be some place for a lengthy amount of time to service the public. Who knows, many of us may even find we like it there and are getting a steady stream of business and would stay longer.I used to not like the idea of combining all three mind pools to be buffable by both dancers and musicians. But, I've changed my mind on that one. Not sure why, but it would certainly increase the availability of buffs and if both can do it, it's not like we'd be taking away something that is for someone else. I think knowing how most of us are, we'd still be getting together and performing, and wouldn't feel like we're stepping on each other's toes. Should the entertainer population escalate after afk is gone, it might not be necessary. But, again, I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of what I honestly remember pre-afk and pre-buffbot. On the other hand, I do NOT want to see this given to doctors. If it was, then I suspect we wouldn't get any business at all because people like the whole one stop shopping insta buff thing. Plus, that's taking away *our* thing, and we wouldn't be getting anything in return. We wouldn't be sharing like we wouldin the dancer/musician buff all 3 scenario.
And, of course, I have always liked the idea of droid videos or holodiscs. I know not everyone does, but I just don't have the same fear of others that it will keep people from coming to the Cantinas. The same doesn't hold true for healing videos, and I don't think holovideos or droid videos a la Princess Leia's "you're my only hope" should be made for healing. But, I'm just talking about buffing here and I think it would increase availability and increase our market value without detrimentally affecting the Cantina atmosphere through lack of people coming in.
Anyway, I hope nobody thinks that I'm stealing anyone else's idea. I culled everything I said above from what people have already posted in this thread, so I take no credit for coming up with any of it. Also, I hope nobody thinks I was bashing their idea. But, like I said, the reason I thought this would be a good thread is to focus on one specific part of our gameplay, which is solely brainstorming many ideas of how to increase availability, while still keeping our economic validity. I mean, if it were only about increasing availability, then the obvious answer would be: buffbots.
Also, I hope nobody thinks I was bashing their idea. But, like I said, the reason I thought this would be a good thread is to focus on one specific part of our gameplay, which is solely brainstorming many ideas of how to increase availability, while still keeping our economic validity. I mean, if it were only about increasing availability, then the obvious answer would be: buffbots. Message Edited by Drygo on 09-10-2004 04:20 PM
DarkY0da
Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:25 pm
#42
Hmm I don't like the thought of giving our buffs to docs either but IF for instance you needed 1 rare spawn of some sort of floral, a rare spawn of some form of meat and like a rare drop off of some spawn + a common and easy to get resource..
Something like that would be not easy to get. Likely the buff quality wouldn't be better then what we do anyways. And the cost of something like that would likely be rather high.
Something like that i really wouldn't have a huge problem with. I might not like it. But it would make them more accessible while leaving our buffs as better/easier/cheaper... /shrug
Maybe make it so only a Squad Leader could use it during a fight.
Dumain
Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:56 pm
#43
Master Dancer on Radiant and her is my point of view.
The Problem: We talk about accesability here and afk buff bots on the other thread but these are just symptoms. The real problem is the mechanism for entertainment buffs themselves. Let's do a quick comparison.
Doctor Buffs for 6 stats:
1) All buffs done by one person.
2) Buffs can be done anywhere you can call a droid so so so convenient.
3) No difficult and wonky commands with time limits and making sure you /stopwatch /stoplisten at the right time depending on how fast the entertainer is flourishing.
4) Quick... 2 or 3 minutes and you are done and since they were done right at the starport you are ready to boogy immediatly.
5) Docs can buff themselves... so so nice.
Entertainer Buffs for 3 stats:
1) You actually need two professions to max out your mind.
2) Buffing only in limited areas.
3) Wonky commands and interface makes failed buffs a reality.
4) Not quick at all.... read below.
5) Only last 2 hours as compared to the doctors 3.5 or so buffs.
6) Can't buff myself!!!
My story. And remember I'm a dancer here. So I like to go out and do a bit of PVE every now and then. So I wantsome buffs.. should I fly out to some doc buff house in some player city and plunk down my money?? Nope not at all. Because of the mechanism of doc buffs it is easy for me to get them on my server. Go to the coronet starport and bam... 2 or 3 docs buffing practically 24 hours a day. In front of the cave... there is a doc... whips out the droid and bam I'm buffed. Catch one on the street while I'm running to the shuttle?? Bam.. droid buffed. No matter what the scenario afew minutes later with no work on my part but a /tip I'm fully buffed out and good to go. Easy as pie... live doc gets a very nice profit and I'm good to go. So I swing by the cantina for my mind buffs. Oh.. master dancer there can get my mind buff perhaps.. oh not a musician so have to find another for my other mind buffs. Throw out a couple of minutes to ask her and get in group or setperform. Throw in 4 minutes and 30 seconds of watching... hope I don't mess up the /watch /stopwatch commands at the appropriate times...hope she did enough flourishing so that time is good /tip and then find a master musician as well... couple of minutes to ask get /setperform or group... hope I get my commands right again (while losing 5 minutes or so of my dancer buff that is 2 hours max) and I'm good to go. If everything goes well. If I go buff botting I don't save a lot time from live entertainers but they are conveniently around all the time and you don't have to ask if they are a musician as well.
See the difference?? Catch a dancer and musician on the street... hope there is a cantina near by and they have the time to go there. Throw in the "I dont' have any buffs so I can't flourish quick enough" "Sorry I'm not a musician as well" "Sorry there is a musician here but no dancer" and you are looking at 15 to 20 minutes easy. Now you can say 15 or 20 minutes is really no big deal but it is. Remember this is the 15 or 20 minutes, plus doc buffs, plus shuttle times before you even start hunting. If you only have a couple of hours 15 or 20 minutes is huge. I'm a dancer and I don't even bother with mind buffs because it is too much trouble. I just drink some brandy and eat some canape and I'm gtg with doc buffs. End result.. theusefulness of getting the buffs is not worth the time/effort. and hassle. It's the mechanism ofgetting our buffsthat are hindering their usefulness.
Solutions Perhaps:
Problem: 2 hours?? Solution: 3.5 hours max.
Problem: I need a dancer and a musician?? Solution: Either can buff all three stats with one performance. This one to me is the big one. It would 1) Increase convenience 2) Lower the time requirements 3) Will open up the pool of FULL buffers to include most every entertainer.The vast majority of the people I know in the entertainer class are masters of one of the professions not both. The other points go to doc or crafting or image design or whatever. EVERY buff bot is master in both and therefore much more useful as far as BUFFS are concerned.
Problem: Wonky Commands Solution: A visual bar, but small so they can see the performance, on the watchers screen that fills up during the routine. Full Bar = Max time. No timers to keep track of. No worry if it's working...No more.. did it start yet?? No adding or subtracting time depending on how fast your dancer is flourishing. Watch her or HIM dance and when your bar is full your done (almost- see below)... well unless she is wearing that cute white outfit and is talkikng to you then the bar isn't really full is it?? **snicker**
Problem: Controling the Buff -- who watches and when. Solution: Anyone can watch at anytime. Their bar fills up to max. No setperforms, No group invites. The player getting buffed then clicks a small box under their bar that says "Request Buff" The system checks that all is good and sends a window about the size of the training window to the dancer/Musician. The Small box pops up with "Brandon is requesting a buff" Dancer/Musician Accepts or Rejects the request with Accept or Reject Buttons. If accepted the patron is buffed and can walk out the door. If rejected so sorry no buff for JOO!! ((It can be set upto allow /autoaccept and the buffbots can stay.. or you can set it up where you must click and the buff bots get the axe.. PLEASE DO NOT START THAT ARGUMENT HERE... just saying it can go either way.))
Problem: I can't buff myself!!! Solution: Medics can heal themselves for no experience.. why can't I buff myself for no experience?? This is just silly.. really really silly. Fix it.
Problem: Hope there is a Cantina nearby. Solution: Entertainer Droids let you set up a "stage" anywhere a droid can be called. Drawback: Will draw people away from cantina's Don't know if I want to see dancers outside the startport in coronet.. **shrug.. a solution with a bad drawback might not be worth it. Maybe the other solutions will make this problem irrelevant.
Just my two cents.
Trev Cloudchaser -- Master Dancer.. forever!! Free Oola!!! Free Oola!! Free Oola!!
Warryyr
Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:13 am
#44
Note:
Droid Performance Modules would also enable us to effectively "buff ourselves" without having to literally "buff ourselves."
The droid would do the buffing, not you.
It would be a 75% buff, but it's better than just being SOL.
Performance droids could also be "pre-charged" by Entertainers for INSTANT trade and sale in a secure trade window. Start a trade-in service for droids - color yours in a personalized way, and swap the old with the newly charged one when a favorite patron comes back around.
Goldy_Lhim
Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:57 am
#45
Probably nothing new but my2 cents
- Fix /register. #1 complaint I hear is that people cannot find buffing entertainers.
- Allow Musicians and Dancers to buff all 3 mind stats at once. Perhaps make them have to wait longer to apply, I don't care but I get so much flack because I'm a dancer/doctor not a dancer musician.
Only reason I would see they wouldn't do this is because of the possibily of building the ultimate buff bot. Dancer / Doctor or Musician /Doctor would be able to buff all 9 stats.
Plus side is that the combatant would only need to find one or the other. Right now their #1 complaintis they can't find us, letting us buff all 3 eliminates 1 person they would need to seek out. - Stabilize how buffs are applied. Its just too flakey. Most failures are due to the customer doing something he didn't know he was supposed to (listening to a musician, watching someone else, meditating) but there are times when seasoned buffees that I dance for daily just don't get the buff which causes me to think that sometimes the buff just fails.
I would suggest some sort of GUI display. I target my victim, I mean customer, and call up the GUI display that has 2 buttons and abuff strengthbar on it. I click "Individual buff" and start my flourishing macro. The strength bar fills up as I flourish and I can tell the customer to /stopwatch when it is full and be confident that he got a full buff. - I like the mission idea mentioned earlier. Like people are able to request a dance in a certain cantina. It would take a while for me to get in the habit of looking for missions though
And perhaps move the entertainer mission terminal inside the public cantinas for easier access.
Electro
Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:44 am
#46
I've long been an advocate for both dancers and musicians having the ability to buff all the mind stats, but not at the power they do the individual ones. Had it been me, I would have set it up so that there are still two buffs, the dancer buff and the musician buff, and each grants 50% boost to all three stats. Why is that? Well, becuase if either one could do 100% and both buffs were the same you'd see a collosal increase in the "one stop shop bob's doc and dance buff-bot" market. But even at half power this would make buffs in general more accessible... one brandy (or two) and a 50% buff should be more than adequate to anyone doing just about anything in the game as we all know.
Other ideas:
- Increase duration of entertainer buffs so that they are not needed "as often". Heck make them 4 hours so they will always last a full doc buff cycle.
- Fix the cumbersome buffing process so that buffs fail less, OR NEVER. Personally I'd like to see a system like this: entertainer does /setperform on patron. Patron gets a dialog box telling them that the entertainer has offered a buff and how strong it will be (given their skill level and any tapes.) Should the patron accept the buff the buff process starts and both people know it so you can properly time it, etc.
- Allow multiple /setperform, heck make it unlimited if you want to.
- Allow entertainers to create "instant buff" tapes by doing all the things we normally do. These could be applied like doctor buffs at any later time by the entertainer who made them in any location where an entertainer droid was available. This would also solve the can't buff ourselves problem.
RabidEwok2
Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:06 am
#47
I'd like to suggest a secure trade window approach for the service, similar to IDs.
Theentertainer initiates a /sellbuff 5000 or whatever command, the number is the payment required.
The client gets a window with a progress meter and an accept button. The accept button will deliver the payment and activate the buff. The progress meter will fill up depending on the dancer's flourishes etc and when it's full, pressing accept will yield a 100% duration buff. Obviously the client has to stay near the dancer/musician to have the progress meter increase.
To make this even more helpful, the entertainer can sell multiple buffs at the same time. I e not like today when you can only do one /setperform.
Message Edited by RabidEwok2 on 09-13-2004 01:06 PM
Isendel
Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:00 am
#48
# 3 is wrong. It did not bring in enough entertainers before buff bots, and ther eis not one shred of evidence that it will help create more after they are gone.
Goldy_Lhim
Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:08 am
#49
could you be more vague?
who's number 3 are you referring to?
DarkY0da
Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:07 am
#50
Not one shred... Drygo ? Would you come post here for a moment.... Not only that but I know I would go into cantinas to buff more then as now I only do it if there is no bot there unless I happen to be jamming with a group. I know at least 20+ others that would pick up Musician/dancer again.
Vicotnik
Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:33 am
#51
I wrote this in a musician thread a few weeks ago, but it's really the same for dancers I guess:
To make entertainers easier to find, for either buffs or just healing, I propose a complete reworking of the /registerWithLocation function.
Instead of just lighting up the rarely seen sun symbol on the CTRL+V map, I would like to see the /register command tied to the datapad, much like POI:s.
For instance, let's say Bob the Master Dancer enters the cantina in Tyrena and executes the /register command, a waypoint would be added to a new tab in the datapad of everyone on Corellia simply called "Entertainers on duty". This waypoint could state the title and name of the registering entertainer, and if he or she is currently buffing (some sort ofsettings the entertainer can tinker with).
As it is now, I doubt even half of the SWG players even know what the small moon and sun symbols are. 
Dreamland
Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:48 pm
#52
Goldy_Lhim wrote:
could you be more vague?
who's number 3 are you referring to?
Just ignore the troll goldy, he finaly realised he got run out of the buffbot sticky so he needs new waters to troll.