Dancer Archive

Mondkind what are you going on about?

Where do you people play? Why do they gather us in one place to dance/play music? why oh why you ask? Because that's how you socalize. Think about it. If you have a party in a house - you go to that one location to talk to a LOT of different people. If you take that same party and spread it all over los angeles... guess what.... you won't see/talk to any of those folks. Sure you can use /tell to talk to people all over the world in this game.... but you WONT MEET ANYONE NEW. To meet people, *gasp* you have to be AROUND people. By making folks come to cantinas to heal their mind, you get a reason for entertainers to congregate... just like bars do when they say, "ladies night, $1 drinks." Why do bars do that in Real Life? Because it gets ladies to show up. Where ladies show up in mass quantities... men follow. Same thing here.

Seriously where do you people play? On my servers, Theed is a rocking place... and not with 80% afkers either. Sure if you play at 2am PST you will pick up a bunch of AFK'ers... however if you hit a cantina in Theed or Coronet at normal hours - at least on the two servers I play - it's highly active.

"Can we socialize with the audience? No they come inwatch us and go to the fridge and after coming back they leave teh cantina without a word." Again, where do you people play? 9 out of 10 people I meet that say "i dont get good tips" or "people aren't social" - they themselves are not social.

Check it out... watch two dancers in a cantina. One will do this everytime someone comes in: /welcome /say Hi there [player name] how's it going? the other will just dance. AT the end of the night the one who is silent complains "I didn't get any tips" while the other says, "Oh I made 10k in tips." I would bet you are the very reason you have no social interaction - either that or you are on a server with a bunch of agoraphobics (which I doubt.)

It's not a moot point to discuss reality in SF games... reality in a SF game comes down to being true to the lore within reason. There are times you add something to the game to balance out other game mechanics. /denyservice is there for a reason. Because you have balancing mechanisms in a game doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater... I mean if you are going to go down that road, you might as well add just about anything... how about godzlla as a playable SWG race? how about allowing players to call themselves "Darth Vader" and how about we add simpson textures as wearable skins for avatars? No, how about we stay as true as possible to a lore and when the need arises to game mechanics issues it's treated very carefully and weighed in the balance with the lore.

Dancers who have battle benefits is obsurd. Again... AGAIN... if you want usefullness in a group *gasp* pick up a side profession. What's the harm in that? What is the harm in picking up "Marksman" along with "Entertainer"?

Do you know you can be a MASTER DANCER and a MASTER MARKSMAN? In fact you can be a MASTER DANCER, MASTER MARKSMANand take a elite profession such as "COMMANDO" and even take a couple collumns to full. Why do you think that taking "Dancer" is all you should do?

You want usefullness on the battlefield, then get a battlefield profession... Otherwise I'll be reading in the Pistoleer forums, "Oh why can't we have usefullness in the cantina? I think we should be allowed to mend each other's minds with our pistols...."

Beery in this game, I am a Master Dancer. I like the profession... But it's not anywhere true to the lore to have Dancer's have some sort of usefullness in a group during combat. IF you want that, check out the following games: DAOC, Everquest,Shadowbane... It's called a bard.

What's wrong with a bard? It's a cookie cutter cheap idea that peoplepulled from DNDto basically imitate other combat classes and just call it entertainment. This is the only MMOG that actually said, "lets get together and make a social class."

Someone said it best... What's to stop a cook from saying the same thing? "I want to have combat effectiveness... oh i don't want to hurt anyone... but cooks should have the ability to aid the tide of battle." OH GOOD GRIEF.

If you want that, SOE already thought up the solution for you... it's called a secondary or tiertiary profession. You don't need to stick with just one.

"But why... oh why.... make entertainers have some use on a battlefield?"

Well, there is one realistic way - make musicians able to rally troops - like bugle calls, and/or bagpipe playing. Have Mastermusicians play some sort of new instrument used only in combat, and have it tend to even out the minddamage of grouped players, like the Squad Leader 'boost morale'commandcan.

Verna - it comes down to this. A doctor gives people medicine which fixes their health. a Enterainer offers psychological support.

Psychology is shown in this game under the terms "Battle Fatigue" and Mind Wounds. It's in a sense saying, "music calms the savage beast." People relax to music/dancing.

Out on a battlefield a Doctor can run up to a dieing person and give them morphine and then do an operation. That physically touches and heals a person. A dancer/musician cna run up to a battlefield and dance/play all night long - it won't mean a thing as bullets are flying ... because psychology is put on hold when combat is in your face. Relaxation comes in calm climates - away from combat.

That's why dancing / muscianship has no role on a battlefield in this game. Stop and consider ... why did they call it "Battle Fatigue"? That is basically a term for stress. Stress is a issue of the mind. Why do dancers/musicians heal Mind wounds? Notice what SOE did? They did something clever. They made the profession a psychological/social one. Medics are a physical healing profession - they have a role in combat - we do not.

"There are some of us who are content to stay in the cantina, but there are others who can't stand it, myself included." They why not give up dancing? then why not master a combat profession? You state "You can only master dancing and one other combat profession" so? You can still master Carbineer.

Oh wait... don't tell me... yes... you want to master Dancer, Marksman, and Commando... yes is that it?

The game has to be fair for everyone. If you cry for this, next the cooks will want some sort of Battle purpose. Then the Tailors... then the Swordsmen are going to want some sort of healing capacity... and Commandos will want to be able to heal mind wounds to....

All right, I'll spell it out one more time, just because I think it's possible that this CAN BE UNDERSTOOD.

Like I think Isaid in my first post on this issue - I don't think entertainers should have a place on the battlefield AS ENTERTAINERS. I do not agree that we should change the profession into a bard profession (unless it's in a realistic way that has precedent in the Star Wars canon). As I said in a recent post, I do see a possibility for musicians (not dancers) to have a battlefield effect, as pipers or buglers, but that's not really what this thread is about.

Now, what I do think is necessary is that dancers have more of an effect due to their agility ONLYIF THEY ALSOPICK UP A COMBAT SKILL. In other words, a dancer who is also a trained combat professional, should get a bonus in terms of combat skills based on agility - such as a modifier to weapon speed, ranged defence, and/or melee defence. This is realistic, since a dancer's enhancedmuscular control would impact the speed with which he/she could move her body during combat. At the moment, dancer skills give no such agilitybonus to the character's combat skills. Dancers do get ranged defence and melee defence bonusesin combat (even if they don't have a combat skill), but so do musicians - this is therefore not related to agility - it is a 'bard' type bonusand thusunrealistic.

Now am I being clear enough?

I think what frustrates me the most here... is that my impression of Beery and Sinda - is they are very new to MMORPG's... oh perhaps they aren't... but I get the impression that those of you championing for this dancer/entertainer change are very new to mmog's...

You can't just say "Oh lets make the game more fun!" You MUST always balance what you consider FUN with the lore of the game. What if a group of folks honestly want Godzilla in the game? Or they want to fight a NPC who is the clone of Adolf Hitler... or have a class of Catholic priests who have supernatural healing powers above and beyond medics?

Yes we can add each of those and it's fun for one group and completly disgusts the others. This whole thread hasn't made one honest or good point to why Dancer's/Entertainers should have these abilities. What everyone is basically saying is, "I'm bored. Oh please cater to me.. I'm a paying subscriber, give me something to make me usefull in combat."

But why?

"Don't ask why, just do it. We aren't concerned with reality here... after all this is a game."

Right. And what do we end up with? Godzilla is a new faction. Adolf Hitler is running around as a easy to kill NPC on Tatooine and Jabba the Hutt is now killable and has been killed by 500 players.

If you want combat effectiveness... why not become a combat profession... as well as dancer/entertainer?

I have yet to read one good comment to suggest why. I'm only hearing "please make it so, because i'm bored."

Someone who has been around in various games, would (I HOPE) understand a need for balance, and to not just cater to every player's whim.

Do dancer's / musicians need enhancements? I think so. Should it be combat related? Nope.

It doesn't make any sense. Anymore then a cook having a combat role. Sinda... Cooks in this game, can pick up Pistol - take it to Pistoleer and be combat effective... heck they can even master Pistoleer. But why should a cook on his / her own be combat effective?

IT destroys the entire reason for having professions made the way they are in this game. If we were talking about EQ, DAOC or shadowbane... where you are LOCKED in a profession/class and can not take other skills - then yes I would agree... that is in fact why entertainment classes in those games are bards. But here, you can mix and match skills.

Just please explain why being a cook or dancer should have a purpose in a group fight? Why should a tailor have a purpose in a group fight?

"But my colored lights should distract the enemy" No... if anything it should make you a bigger target and give you a +20 to be hit.

This just smacks of the classic "This is my first mmog and i really want stuff. Lots of cool stuff. Lots of stuff... and it's all in fun, so what harm can it do?" It can do a lot of harm. Especially when the younger crowd starts voicing their desires... You'll just end up with a hodge podge of crap. Battle dancers + Godzilla faction + Hermaphrodite Stormtroopers + NPC's of Egyptian gods(ess) to fight. all in the name of fun.

Beery this is a VERY big stretch.

Does modern combat today have musicians on the battlefield? NO.

Did the star wars storyline? No.

Why would you add it now? It's a stretch that is so thin and transparent... and what is it hiding? It's hiding a bunch of folks who just want to be "enhanced" with combat abilities when they are meerly a social profession. Rather then work for combat experience, it sounds to me, you just want combat effectiveness "given" to you.

Beery - you said

"Well, there is one realistic way - make musicians able to rally troops - like bugle calls, and/or bagpipe playing. Have Mastermusicians play some sort of new instrument used only in combat, and have it tend to even out the minddamage of grouped players, like the Squad Leader 'boost morale'commandcan."

then you said,

"Oh dear, well I'm not going to repeat myself other than to say that I DON'T want dancer's tohave some sort of usefulness in a group during combat."

Which is it? or are you just stupid?

"This whole thread hasn't made one honest or good point to why Dancer's/Entertainers should have these abilities."

Have you read ONE WORD of my previous post? Have you understood any of my previous suggestions? Clearly not.

Are you saying that a dancer's agility is not really agility? If you're saying that I haven't made 'an honest or good point asto why Dancer's/Entertainers should have these abilities', apparently you are.

And you claim I'm the one who's being unrealistic?

Oh I see... so now it's just musicians... and NOT dancers.

Wait... let me guess... you are a musician?

Transparent enough yet?

"Does modern combat today have musicians on the battlefield? NO."

Modern combat does not have anything at all to do with combat a long time agoin a galaxy far, faraway

"Did the star wars storyline? No."

Oh yes it did! Have you watched the bigbattle in 'The Phantom Menace'? You remember the Gungan heralds? No? Then perhaps you're not as versed in Star Wars as you think you are. Perhaps you should get off your high 'veteran roleplaying gamer'horse and try to be a little less condescending.

Beery This is a better example ---- you said on page 1, "While I agree that Dancer should always be a social profession, I also think that a dancer should have more of an impact as regards dodge moves and in the TKA profession."

then you said on page 2, "Oh dear, well I'm not going to repeat myself other than to say that I DON'T want dancer's tohave some sort of usefulness in a group during combat."

Wait... isn't giving TKA's an advantage because they are also dancers - "combat effectivness"?

You are saying two things... 1. I want dancers to have the ability to enhance other melee profession capabilities in combat. I also want musicians to have combat effectivness as in rallying troops and inspiring troops... 2. Oh wait I didn't say that... Dancers should not have any combat effectiveness in groups.

Which is it? they enhance other professions? or don't they? Then you get upset because people are "missunderstanding you." Wow I wonder why that could be.

"It's hiding a bunch of folks who just want to be "enhanced" with combat abilities when they are meerly a social profession. Rather then work for combat experience, it sounds to me, you just want combat effectiveness "given" to you."

Please READ and UNDERSTAND what I'm suggesting before you make assumptions about it. Don't just ASSUME that I'm suggesting what the originator of this thread asked for. You have CLEARLY misunderstood what I'm suggesting, and I keep telling you you're doing so, yet you consistently refuse to even try to understand, and instead re-state your straw man theory about what you THINK I'm suggesting. Are you really that dense, or is this a cynical attempt to sidestep my issue?