Dancer Archive
Thread: We should be able to buff ourselves..
I'd just like to point out, my master musican friend buffed herself today. Musicans can /listen while playing however dancers cannot /watch while dancing. So basically we are the only ones that can't buff ourselves.
ctrl+1
/setperform
/listen
wait 5-10 min
ctrl+1
/stoplisten
Tried it with my dancer and nothing.
Until I get killed, I will always have over 1000 Mind and over 1000 Action (naturally as a twi'lek). I could play for 9 hours and never see the Mind drop below 1000.
that is correct. you'd have 1 stat up to 2000. that's close to max. what are the maxes on doctor buffs?*and* this isprovided you were a master dancer. saying you'd never see it drop below 1000 is a fallacy. perhaps if you played a profession which had minor mind demads. i know even with my primary and secondary mind stats buffed i still drain the mind to empty in major battles.
you'd also have 145 other points to spend on other skills. i doubt very much that someone is going to find a template out of this that would radically alter the game.
How big a deal is it, really, to stop dancing 10 minutes before you leave, sit down, and watch another dancer for 10 minutes? Then you get up and go heal/survey/shoot stuff and you're good to go.
the second i find another master dancer tonight on endor at 1am i'll pop back on here and let you know. hmmm actually the second i ever find another master dancer on endor any time but the weekend i'll let you know.
maybe i should pony up and pay for one to come out? i could use the money i get from tips from buffing the group!
meeuki wrote:
How big a deal is it, really, to stop dancing 10 minutes before you leave, sit down, and watch another dancer for 10 minutes? Then you get up and go heal/survey/shoot stuff and you're good to go.
the second i find another master dancer tonight on endor at 1am i'll pop back on here and let you know. hmmm actually the second i ever find another master dancer on endor any time but the weekend i'll let you know.
maybe i should pony up and pay for one to come out? i could use the money i get from tips from buffing the group!
forget about endor. when im playing, i can't even find another non-afk dancer on TATOOINE. in a city. near my house, where i usually? forget about it. we're part of a very SMALL percentage of players to master the elite musician/dancer classes. there just isn't that many of us in 97% of the gameworld for us to be dependent like this.
Kuildeous wrote:
meeuki wrote:
Until I get killed, I will always have over 1000 Mind and over 1000 Action (naturally as a twi'lek). I could play for 9 hours and never see the Mind drop below 1000.
that is correct. you'd have 1 stat up to 2000. that's close to max. what are the maxes on doctor buffs?*and* this isprovided you were a master dancer. saying you'd never see it drop below 1000 is a fallacy. perhaps if you played a profession which had minor mind demads. i know even with my primary and secondary mind stats buffed i still drain the mind to empty in major battles.
you'd also have 145 other points to spend on other skills. i doubt very much that someone is going to find a template out of this that would radically alter the game.
I don't mean that my Mind amounts won't drop below 1000. I mean that the Mind max won't drop below 1000.
Say that I make a Wookie. He has 6100 points to spend. I can give myself a low score of 600 Mind (or even lower if that's allowed). If I work up Dancing Technique to level IV, then I can buff myself to 1050. For free. I just run around with 450 free stat points. Now I can bump up my Health and Action and be deficient in no attribute. All for free. Boom, you have an advantage over nondancers in battle because your Mind is higher. And if your Mind is higher, then you can put more points into Health and Action. That's a pretty sweet deal.
So, allowing dancers to freely buff themselves, you are advocating that people inherently become better fighters by virtue of being a Dancer.
And why do you keep comparing this to Doctor buffs? It has been stated over and over again that Doctor buffs are not free. Yes, they can buff themselves, but it cuts into their stash. Dancers have no stash.
If Dancers are forced to pay for a self-Mind-buff, I'm for it. As it stands now, I am opposed to a free Mind buff for Dancers/Musicians.
It is ridiculous to compare Doctor buffs to Dancer/Musician buffs. They are completely different!
yes, you COULD do that. but i think you're ignoring the point costs associated with these 'free stat points'.
15 + 6 for novice boxes (entertainer, dancer. 14x3 for 3 skill trees (dancing, ent healing, dance tech). thats63 skill points. you know what else is 63 skill points? any entire elite profession. is a BH going to drop some BH skills so he can get this UBER mind pool? heck no. how about a CH/pistoleer? don't think so. and yes, you could be a master doctor, get your UBER mind pool, and have 42 points left over to go up two skill trees in marksman... how effective of a fighter does that make you? not very.
i don't know of any fighter type character who'd rather give up an elite profession instead of being able to pay a dancer 1-3k for a 2 hr mind buff when they needed it. i think you're way off base when you say "people inherently become better fighters by virtue of being a Dancer." even if and when we are able to mind buff ourselves, the truth will be closer to "hey, if i spend 5 minutes dancing, then some of these 106 skill points i used to be able to help out friends and strangers are actually helpful to ME for the next two hours. neat."
its not like we want our dances to have knockdown effects on high level mobs, or instantly heal all status effects on all party members with a 200m radius for free. i don't understand why you are so adverse to something that will have such little impact. as a master dancer who hopes to become a master rifleman, i'd be benefitting just about as much as any class combination could if i can buff my own mind pool. so yes, i'd be able to shoot twice as many times as my other rifleman counterparts, without having to seek out another dancer to buff me. on the other hand, i won't have the skill points to have a big graul named Chunky to take my aggro, so i'll be getting smashed in the face a lot more for 2.5x melee.
Chessack wrote:
I agree with Kuildeous on this one... Self-buffing is a potential balance issue when it has zero cost other than time. His example (of being permenantly at 175% mind) is a good example of how it might imblance things.
In the end I don't see this as a big issue. Really. Think about it. When do you need high mind? Not when you're dancing -- you need action for that. No, you need high mind when you are about to QUIT dancing and go do something else (heal, survey, or kill things with heavy mind-using items like a rifle). So really when you need the mind buff is just before you are ready to leave the cantina, not all during. How big a deal is it, really, to stop dancing 10 minutes before you leave, sit down, and watch another dancer for 10 minutes? Then you get up and go heal/survey/shoot stuff and you're good to go.
This really seems like a non-issue to me and comes off as greedy and self-serving, to tell the truth.
C
Hmm have you ever stepped out of the Cantina?
A group of combatants watch their Dancer friend, while getting buffed up by a doc. So nice, they have buffs to Health Action and Mind. The Dancer gets buffs to Health and Action - nothing on mind. They hit the hunt, and the hunt hits the Dancer's mind and she is the first incap due to mind wounds. Chessack you really do need to live in the whole galaxy and not just the dimmly light Cantina's.... Explain now how the Dancer in the example above is anything except selfless, generous and a boon to her friends while getting nothing for her abilities herself?
QED
Thinking I should explain whats going on here so people better understand this. Musicians can Not buff themselves by any normal means. They have been complaining and griping about not being able to buff themselves just as much as Dancers have. Now a few musicians have recently made the claim that they can indeed buff themselves. When I saw this it brought the obvious question to mind, how?
Well from my research thus far this is what I'm seeing happen. Thebelief they can buff themselves is not accurate. What I've seen happening is this bug (if you call it that) only works while in a group. I have not seen this replicated while solo but if anyone out there can, please let me know. Now let me explain why this works in a group and why they think they can buff themselves when their really not.
When your in a group and you /listen to yourself, at least as a musician it seems to target the whole band, not you. Which is why you can stop playing and still hear music. So whats happening is that musicians are /setperform ing on themself and eventually getting the mind buff and come to the conclusion they got the buff from themself when in reality it was still passively given to them by another band member.
Now if anyone can do this solo or knows someone who can, please let me know and point me in their direction so I can try and figure out how this is working. I've not seen or been able to get it to work solo myself so for now I believe its just a group bug. If anyone has evidence to the contrary please let me know!
Hope this explains things. Think I'll make a new post and sticky this.
Heeh, the irony is our group used to be totally comprised of Entertainers plus the odd tokennon Entertainer- now we're down to one Dancer, everyone else surrendered their skills and took new paths. Getting hard to find entertainers to take out in the field now... I guess the point is that we shouldn't need more than one Dancer, if she were able to buff herself (like I can as a Doc) she'd be as happy as anything, and might even keep the skill.
Waho wrote:
Timbo, that group needs another dancer so they can buff each other's minds.
Just out of curiosity, has anybody tested the dancer-gets-buffs-while-dancing-and-watching-another-dancer thing? Some data points to note:1) Back when we were testing the basic buff, I noted that it didn't seem to be possible for both dancers to get the buff. Dancer A starts dancing, dancer B watches A, then starts dancing. Dancer A can't start watching dancer B. (Possible you can do it through the select and then /watch song and dance rather than radial, I forget.)
2) One of our group is a novice entertainer. The other night, I noticed that her buff had activated very prematurely (and of course faded very prematurely.) She started dancing after I did. I wasn't paying enough attention to tell if this is what the trouble was, but, well, it very well could be. (So it's possible that if you /watch and then /startdance, you automatically stop watching whoever it was you were watching. I'm not sure.) Regardless, I suppose that with two dancers, we could have one perform for 10 minutes to buff the other, then the other perform for 10 minutes to buff everyone else. It seems... rather unfortunate, though.
Anyway, some weird buggy things there. If we have time, I'll try to look into them in more depth so I can report what's actually going on. Not having any sort of feedback on buff status makes it easy to miss what may have prematurely triggered a buff.
Finally, I would argue that even if you can get buffed while performing, needing four master performers (two master musicians, two master dancers) in the group to fully buff all three mind stats for everyone in the group is... a bit excessive. Note that we're not talking about somewhere with a crowded cantina here, we're talking about going out on one of the adventure planets. I don't know about you, but all of the master dancers I've seen out there besides myself have been in town for just a short time with *their* hunting groups, and hence not really available to buff me. Not to mention that a lot of buffing happens way out in the boonies away from town. *shrug* I'm surviving, but being the weak link is painful.
By the way, I'm not going to be dropping master dancer soon by any means... But in the not too distant future I'm going to have to think about it more and more as I start running out of skill points again. I have no idea, right now, how my inability to buff myself will factor into that decision.
lol Velvet....
I am not the one who brought up the pro/con list of dancers v doctors with the number one reason why we should not be able to buff ourselves being the fact that docs have to spend creds for making buffs and we don't . IMO it doesn't matter if docs spend 0 creds or 1 million creds to make enhance packs...it still does not have a thing to do with entertainer buffs. My point was simply that Docs are not the only ones who have to spend money to hone their craft...period.