Dancer Archive
Thread: We should be able to buff ourselves..
Kuildeous wrote:
Taboux wrote:
Hehe..read it again Kuil..I didn't say you had to have clothes to buff....I said you had to have them to be a "GOOD" dancer....'if' you take the proffesion seriously that is.
We were talking about buffing ourselves. Being a good dancer is a whole different issue.
In comparing Dancer/Musician buffs to Doctor buffs, I stated that Doctors have a buttload of resource expenditure. I said that we have no resource expenditure. This is where you contradicted me by saying that we need clothes. If you did not mean that new clothes were necessary for buffing, then this thread is not the place to bring up the costs of clothing.
Trust me; the devs will not be impressed with an argument that says, "We should be able to buff ourselves because it costs us money to buy clothing."
If you want to convince me that a good dancer expends money on clothing and that it's not cheap, you don't need to say a word. I already agree with you.
If you want to convince me that dancers should buff themselves as they do others, you need better arguments than good dancer = new clothes.
But as I said before, I think that forcing us to spend resources/money to buff ourselves would be fair.
And if I read another thread correctly, the devs will work on allowing us to buff ourselves, so maybe they do agree with you. It's not like I'm arguing strongly against this. I'm just shooting down the theory that if doctors can buff themselves, so should dancers. If we do end up buffing ourselves, I'll gladly enjoy it *grin*
LOL
That is NOT what I said....not the argument I made. You have to read the entire post "in context" ^^
Just like Master Docs don't "have" to sink a lot of $$ into getting to master doc, master dancers don't "have" to sink a lot of $$ into clothing...I was merely making reference to one of your reaons why we shouldn't be able to buff ourselves....you are the one who mentioned costs 
But GOOD master docs use good resources like GOOD dancers invest well in their char....that was my point about that plain and simple.
My JUSTIFICATION for us being able to buff ourselves was this....not ALL master dancer are 'barflies' and do have other important combat professions, and the idea that in order for an entire hunt party to be fully buffed would require them to have TWO master dancers and TWO master musicians (to buff each other)is well...frankly absurd.
Oh...and I don't want to hear that I can run to the cantina to get my buff on like some others do, either. My regular hunting group typically hunts for many, many hours on end in very remote locations where 99% of the time I am the only master dancer on the entire planet. As a TK Master I am the best damage dealer in our group, yet I remain the weak link as of now, due to not having a mind buff...and when you tank, a LOT of mobs mind shot REALLY hard...so I have to fight at max range and pray I dont get aggro and rarely get to use special moves that draw more aggro.....its very VERY discouraging.
THAT is my argument for self-buffs. That and the fact that master musicians/dancers who actually participate in any sort of combat are very rare (tho that will change with the new buff, I am guessing) and its just simply the right thing to do. We can heal our own mind wounds and battle fatigue without being able to "watch" ourselves...this should be incorporated into that as well.
IMO
MadShade wrote:
If we can't buff ourselves....and we can't watch another dancer to get the buff.....does this mean Master Dancer's are just not ever allowed to buff a stat that Any other class can get buffed ? I don't believe that the Dev's are looking for people to drop the Master title, just so in essence that person can receive what everyone else can get ?
I'm just wondering how many Master's will remain Master's if they aren't allowed to ever receive this "wonderful buff" they provide!
The Masters couldn't receive their own buffs before. That didn't cause them to leave the profession. There were other motivations for them to leave.
Would it be nice for dancers to buff themselves? Oh sure. Will a dancer drop the profession based solely on not being able to buff herself? If she does, then she doesn't care about the profession anyway, so don't let the door hit her on the way out. Good-bye. The more serious dancers will stick with it for the same reasons they took the profession in the first place.
How many people took up dancing just for the mind buff (which was pretty insignificant up until recently)? How many people took up dancing for the fun interaction and moves and the good feeling of helping others? I reckon that the latter far outnumber the former, so I don't think many Masters will drop because they cannot buff themselves.
Oh, and for the record, dancers are not immune to the buff. I witnessed my own mind increasing by 100% when I watched a master dancer.
Taboux, I went back and reread your post, and if you intended to make a point other than what Kuildeous said when he summed it up, you need to rewrite it because you were unsuccessful.
Clothing costs are irrelevant when it comes to discussing the mind buff, because what you are wearing doesn't affect the power or duration of the buff. If you wanted to compare to how the quality of resources used in an enhance pack affect the resulting buff, having an outfit crafted by a master tailor in a color available only to a master tailor would allow you to buff mind for 125% instead of the flat 100%. Then you'd have some justification for clothing expense.
MadShade wrote:
I'm very concerned that I have not seen the fact that Master Dancer's are not able to watch other Dancers somewhere in this discussion. What this means is that every Master Dancer is incapable of receiving a Mind Pool Buff (even if there is another dancer in the group with them to watch).
Er, what brings you to this conclusion? If I'm in a group with another dancer, and I want my mind buffed, all I have to do is sit down and watch that dancer. Voila! Mind buff.
I'm not sure where you jump from "A master has to be sitting still to get buffed" to "A master can't get the buff at all." Sure, the buff the master receives won't be as large has his fellows would receive from watching him (assuming the other dancer is not also a master) but that's a far cry from "a master can't be buffed at all".
Er, what brings you to this conclusion? If I'm in a group with another dancer, and I want my mind buffed, all I have to do is sit down and watch that dancer. Voila! Mind buff.
I'm not sure where you jump from "A master has to be sitting still to get buffed" to "A master can't get the buff at all." Sure, the buff the master receives won't be as large has his fellows would receive from watching him (assuming the other dancer is not also a master) but that's a far cry from "a master can't be buffed at all
so by that rational we should pop on over to the doctors forum and demand they not be able to buff themselves. they can just get a buff from another doctor right?
doctors can buff 6 stats. SIX. we are asking for the ability to get a partial, if not a full buff to ONE. and you people are talking about resources expended? what about the time it takes to buff one person. 10 minutes? are you freaking kidding me? so if i want to buff 10 people who are all in different groups i have to either spend 10 minutes on each, or manage to fenangle past the misconceptions and get them in a group with me so i can passive buff them. which takes 12. OH but the group leaves after 2 minutes because that's all the time people want to spend in the cantina. so the buff lasts 20 minutes, and I get 15 tells calling me a ball waxer.
granted this is an extreme circumstance, but to suggest that dancing doesn't cost us anything is bull**edit**. that's the attitude that makes dancers quit because 'dancing is free' right? 'why tip? dancing is free!' 'why should they get to buff 1 measly pool?' people suggesting this as a bad thing are only concerned with the pvp aspects of someone spending 15+28+5+14 points to get a 75% buff. please. find me someone willing to expend those points for a10 minute pvp battle when they can just buy somemuon.
there's no reason not to put this in the game.
meeuki wrote:
so if i want to buff 10 people who are all in different groups i have to either spend 10 minutes on each, or manage to fenangle past the misconceptions and get them in a group with me so i can passive buff them. which takes 12. OH but the group leaves after 2 minutes because that's all the time people want to spend in the cantina. so the buff lasts 20 minutes, and I get 15 tells calling me a ball waxer.
If people are that impatient and/or stupid to get their buff, is that really our problem? People call us names out of ignorance all the time. Simply respond with, "Are you aware of how buffs work? Anyone who said what you just said clearly doesn't. Come back when you a) reach the age of 12 and b) figure out how this game works."
Also, /addignore.
But that is not a cost for buffing. I suppose it's the price we pay for people trying to hog our time, but Weaponsmiths, Smugglers, Doctors, etc., all have people clamoring for their attention. While I can see the frustration in buffing 10 people at once (and I have no problem being a cantina Nazi and demand that people drop out of their groups to join mine), that isn't equivalent to what Doctors have to go through for their buffs.
As for why we shouldn't get the buff for free, I can think of one reason. It may not be a sufficient reason in your eyes (and indeed, the devs may disagree with me on this point), but allowing a self-buff with no resource expenditure means that Dancers will always have higher Minds than their characters started with. After all, I can log in (and I always log out in a cantina anyway) and start dancing. After 15 minutes, I can go around with +75% Mind. An hour later, I set up camp and buff myself again, resetting the countdown. Hour and a half later, I set up another camp and reset the countdown. Until I get killed, I will always have over 1000 Mind and over 1000 Action (naturally as a twi'lek). I could play for 9 hours and never see the Mind drop below 1000.
I'd be a happy player, but I don't know that it's good for the game. Risk-free perpetual stat increase? Eh, not as much fun now.
Kuildeous wrote:
As for why we shouldn't get the buff for free, I can think of one reason. It may not be a sufficient reason in your eyes (and indeed, the devs may disagree with me on this point), but allowing a self-buff with no resource expenditure means that Dancers will always have higher Minds than their characters started with. After all, I can log in (and I always log out in a cantina anyway) and start dancing. After 15 minutes, I can go around with +75% Mind. An hour later, I set up camp and buff myself again, resetting the countdown. Hour and a half later, I set up another camp and reset the countdown. Until I get killed, I will always have over 1000 Mind and over 1000 Action (naturally as a twi'lek). I could play for 9 hours and never see the Mind drop below 1000.
This is why I think there should be no self buff. I'm a MD and I've "taken advantage" of the system in place by migrating stats towards my mind pools. Whenever I'm going to leave a safe place I call my droid and 6 buffs later I'm good to go.
The difference is, like Kuildeous said there is no resources expended for the mind buff.
In the end I don't see this as a big issue. Really. Think about it. When do you need high mind? Not when you're dancing -- you need action for that. No, you need high mind when you are about to QUIT dancing and go do something else (heal, survey, or kill things with heavy mind-using items like a rifle). So really when you need the mind buff is just before you are ready to leave the cantina, not all during. How big a deal is it, really, to stop dancing 10 minutes before you leave, sit down, and watch another dancer for 10 minutes? Then you get up and go heal/survey/shoot stuff and you're good to go.
This really seems like a non-issue to me and comes off as greedy and self-serving, to tell the truth.
C
ok i see what your saying. i guess i can't argue with having to pay for it. but pay for it != sit and watch another dancer. there are no other dancers heh.
meeuki wrote:
so by that rational we should pop on over to the doctors forum and demand they not be able to buff themselves. they can just get a buff from another doctor right?
Why would we want to punish doctors for something you don't like about entertainer buffs?
In any case, you're ignoring the context of my post. The person I replied to stated flat out that a Master Dancer simply could not get buffed, period. That is untrue, as I demonstrated. A Master Dancer might not get a maximum buff if her fellow dancer is lesser level but she can, in fact, be buffed just as easily as anyone else. That is all I said, it's true, and it's totally irrelevant to doctor buffs. Please don't turn it into some sort of judgement about whether you're justified in wanting to buff yourself.
doctors can buff 6 stats. SIX. we are asking for the ability to get a partial, if not a full buff to ONE.
The devs are aware of the concern. Ravenmist represents this forum well and made the problem well known to them before anyone on this forum was ever aware that there WAS a problem.
Getting angry and making demands won't make things happen any faster. If it was as simple as throwinga switch, this thread wouldn't exist. Give it time and help each other out as much as you can in the meantime.
I group with a dancer rifleman and it sorta sucks that I have to heal the person over and over again to get a buff they can't use, but can buff me. It takes about ten minutes to get the buffs to stick. Then when we go hunting to watch them to be out of the fight because they have no mind left.
I think it is a reasonable request to allow them to buff themselves.