Dancer Archive
Thread: Dancing Broken Worse then Ever on TC now.
Tiaga wrote:
I thought of that too, but that may be as bad a blow to sync dancing as the current issue. The system works for musicians since their flourishes are fixed length. For dancers, if the dancers don't start together, or they do slightly different flourishes, they will get out of sync.
Message Edited by Panthu on 03-17-2005 02:38 PM
Groovymarlin wrote:
Thanks for the video Tiaga. Good lord! That's horrible. The "drift" in those travelling dances was bad enough!
I'm curious what happens on the watcher's screen when the dancer stops dancing. Do they see the dancer "run" back to their position at the front of the cantina? Or does the dancer see themselves run back to the position where the watcher saw them end?
Any non-dancer viewers will see the dancer run to the position that dancer sees him/herself in, since the server updates the position from the dancer. This is also the case if you intentionally use turning to move from one position to another during flourishes - the viewer, as on live, doesn't see the turn during the flourish, and on TC also doesn't get an update when the flourish is finished, so that update happens when the dancer stops dancing.
Landlubber wrote:
No offense Panthu, but I'm quite surprised at your surprise...
As for me, I'm not feeling very willing to cut the Devs any kind of slack at all. So they get around to trying to fix one of our issues. Great, it really is - but is it too much to expect that they also do a good job of it??
I didn't say I was surprised, I said I didn't understand - translation: I don't understand what you think it will gain us by basically ranting and freaking out. I don't like non-productive actions, sorry. I like to effect change, that's why I spent a significant amount of time researching this issue and talking to Devs about it.
Yes, sometimes I was blown off. Yes, I was once even told I wasn't allowed to post in this forum about the issue with out getting the post approved first. So, please don't talk to me about not understanding what we are really dealing with as a player community. I get that.
If you really look into the mechanics of this though, you will see that theremost likely is not a way to just fix this and leave all of the Flourishes and Base Dances as they are right now. There is no other game that has tried to allow constant non-interrupted long clip high travel animations like this. It's a weird thing that's trying to be done here. Something has to give and change, because the current setup doesn't work and soon half of our dances will be these "high drift" dances if they go in unchanged. Then won't we be hurting?
The thing that makes the most sense to me that seems like it would require the least amount of code change and zero animation clip changes is to:
- Yes, go back to thedead reckoning we have on live for base dances and leave the flos out of it (just like Live)
- Reduce Base Dancesto only seven which are currently called: Basic1 and 2, Popular2, Footloose1 and 2, Exotic2 and 4 (These would need to be renamed to make sense)
- Make all other current Base Dance animations work as Flourishes instead (meaning, no position check so no stuttering)
- Change the way all Flourishes are named and called so that they will work from any of the seven Base Dances a player has earned
- Redo the Skill Lines so that Dancers learn Base Dances in some boxes (probably best to keep these in lower boxes, but where ever is fine as long as you get a few choices early on) and all now renamed Flourishes through out the skill tree
This way we get to keep all of our animations we currently have access to, but we also get to use them all in ways they can be used best. Formal2 works fine as a one time run with out position check. Tiaga showed me that a long time ago with the /dance comparison. That's why that anim needs to work like a flo.
I won't cheer at you if you don't want to be cheered up, but please don't rant at me if you are not willing to look at the above suggestion and try to help offer suggestions to make it better or offer another solution of your own. The only thing that is going to be helpful here is giving Deila good feedback to take to the Devs.
We simply can not go on like we have it on Live right now. We've seen our only dances that are coming down the pipes for a very long time, the videos have been floating around forever. They are all going to be "broken" ifwe don't allow some change here.
Panthu wrote:
Landlubber wrote:
No offense Panthu, but I'm quite surprised at your surprise...
As for me, I'm not feeling very willing to cut the Devs any kind of slack at all. So they get around to trying to fix one of our issues. Great, it really is - but is it too much to expect that they also do a good job of it??
I didn't say I was surprised, I said I didn't understand - translation: I don't understand what you think it will gain us by basically ranting and freaking out. I don't like non-productive actions, sorry. I like to effect change, that's why I spent a significant amount of time researching this issue and talking to Devs about it.
Yes, sometimes I was blown off. Yes, I was once even told I wasn't allowed to post in this forum about the issue with out getting the post approved first. So, please don't talk to me about not understanding what we are really dealing with as a player community. I get that.
If you really look into the mechanics of this though, you will see that theremost likely is not a way to just fix this and leave all of the Flourishes and Base Dances as they are right now. There is no other game that has tried to allow constant non-interrupted long clip high travel animations like this. It's a weird thing that's trying to be done here. Something has to give and change, because the current setup doesn't work and soon half of our dances will be these "high drift" dances if they go in unchanged. Then won't we be hurting?
The thing that makes the most sense to me that seems like it would require the least amount of code change and zero animation clip changes is to:
- Yes, go back to thedead reckoning we have on live for base dances and leave the flos out of it (just like Live)
- Reduce Base Dancesto only seven which are currently called: Basic1 and 2, Popular2, Footloose1 and 2, Exotic2 and 4 (These would need to be renamed to make sense)
- Make all other current Base Dance animations work as Flourishes instead (meaning, no position check so no stuttering)
- Change the way all Flourishes are named and called so that they will work from any of the seven Base Dances a player has earned
- Redo the Skill Lines so that Dancers learn Base Dances in some boxes (probably best to keep these in lower boxes, but where ever is fine as long as you get a few choices early on) and all now renamed Flourishes through out the skill tree
This way we get to keep all of our animations we currently have access to, but we also get to use them all in ways they can be used best. Formal2 works fine as a one time run with out position check. Tiaga showed me that a long time ago with the /dance comparison. That's why that anim needs to work like a flo.
I won't cheer at you if you don't want to be cheered up, but please don't rant at me if you are not willing to look at the above suggestion and try to help offer suggestions to make it better or offer another solution of your own. The only thing that is going to be helpful here is giving Deila good feedback to take to the Devs.
We simply can not go on like we have it on Live right now. We've seen our only dances that are coming down the pipes for a very long time, the videos have been floating around forever. They are all going to be "broken" ifwe don't allow some change here.
Not sure I like the last two suggestions, heehee. Would be interesting, indeed, to mix them up like that, but probably would take an entire revamp of the profession.
What I think would be good, however, would be like your second suggestion, but a little more expanded. Keep the different base dances, from basic to exotiuc, including the Tumble and Breakdance bases. What needs to be done, however, is this I believe: they need to be short repeats of a base, instead of longer, movement-oriented bases like the drifters. Or, better yet, give us a STATIONARY BASE. Think like a starting position of Ballet. Make each dance have it's own unique stationary starting position, and let flourishes be executed from that. Granted, it might mean revamping the flourishes to flow into the stationary base position, but that could work as well.
I hope some of that made sense...
Edit: Thinking on it, actually, I think I may prefer the ability to just have a list of different, renamed flourishes which could be mixed and matched. It would allow dancers to, essentially, create their OWN dances by simply choosing a base and combining various flourishes without having to /changedance every couple flourishes. Hm...
Message Edited by ChaoKuang on 03-17-2005 04:42 AM
I heart you. Chao. I am by no means married to my earlier suggestion. It is only one of many I have pitched in the past. The first step as a Corr was to get this addressed though, which has now happened. I am thrilled to finally have the community talking about this!
Please people, brainstorm! Give Deila good things to take back to the Devs so we can be clear on what it is we need.
DarkY0da wrote:
I wonder if this could be abused to... I don't know dance your way through a base and shut it down with out ever showing up to those guarding it...
I hadn't thought of that.. The idea of "spying" on people by getting close without seeming to be close crossed my mind... Not sure the base will be an issue though, because as soon as you cross into a different room, you warp (Not run, but instantly travel) to the correct location.
Tiaga wrote:
DarkY0da wrote:
I wonder if this could be abused to... I don't know dance your way through a base and shut it down with out ever showing up to those guarding it...
I hadn't thought of that.. The idea of "spying" on people by getting close without seeming to be close crossed my mind... Not sure the base will be an issue though, because as soon as you cross into a different room, you warp (Not run, but instantly travel) to the correct location.
Well, technically, we could do this on Live now by straight flourishing, our check doesn't happen on Live till you go back to the base dance (which many people here know how to mostly skip).
Even with the way it is on TC though, you still can't get too far with out it doing a weird warp to where you really are. I don't know what the distance limitation is on that, but it's probably the same as skipping the base dance on Live.
Panthu wrote:Well, technically, we could do this on Live now by straight flourishing, our check doesn't happen on Live till you go back to the base dance (which many people here know how to mostly skip).
Even with the way it is on TC though, you still can't get too far with out it doing a weird warp to where you really are. I don't know what the distance limitation is on that, but it's probably the same as skipping the base dance on Live.
You can't completely skip the base dance on live. You always do a little bit of it, even if you never actually see it, it's enough for the client to move you to the correct position. So the most you'd be limited to is 20 seconds. The warping isn't distance related, it has to do with crossing into different areas/rooms, possibly server lines as well. Basically any time the game has to move you to a different coordinate system. (It tracks player coordinates relative to the room they are in, so moving to a different room is moving you to a different coordinate system.)
Message Edited by Panthu on 03-17-2005 05:05 PM
as for the dance, I'm glad they tried to fix it, but the fix doesn't look good
it would be great if they can try to fix it again, but if a fix isn't feasible and the public demands it they should put the old version back. maybe later on they could design base dances that don't move around for some of the dances? 
