Dancer Archive

Pappi coming up with alternative solutions is fine and good. However its on test now, that means that we can't hope for a lot of time to make major changes. If it breaks synchronized dancing as it seems to from all the descriptions it breaks a major part of the joy of performing. I know the dancers I hang with do a lot of synchronized performing its fun and pleasing to watch. This simply can't go live if it breaks that it will destroy a big reason that a lot of my dancer friends have for maintaining the profession. We get together in starports, streets, public cantinas, and private cantinas just to group and have fun. A large part of that fun is the gals (yeah and a couple of guys I just don't look at them often ) doing coordinated dances with smokebomb waves, etc. This change kills that, please do all you can to stop it from going live in this form.

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LyteFoot wrote:
Pappi coming up with alternative solutions is fine and good. However its on test now, that means that we can't hope for a lot of time to make major changes.

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tell me about it... I've done my share of "this is really broken please don't push the patch live" posts, but they mostly get ignored

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PoetDancer wrote:

The problem with this issue is that it has the potential to seriously disrupt attempts bydancers to complete a buff that meets expectations. Because what happens when we inadvertently "drift" out of /watch range too soon, and do not even know it has happened?

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I think to avoid that, you'd need to be safe and do a non-drifting dance, and not Tumble, Tumble2, or any of the high-drift dances. As Panthu mentioned, there are dances that don't twitch or drift out of place.

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Panthu wrote:

A) No player can stop something from going to the Live servers from TC. TC Regs and Corrs try it all the time. In the end, it is a wasted effort to get hung up on that. Terrible things have gone live from TC like the massive series of Warcry bugs and things that have completely stopped the Jedi or BH gameplay.

Okay, so we won't be able to prevent it from being pushed live. That's pretty much to be expected (although unless I'm very much mistaken they do have the ability from pulling certain things from TC. If they hadn't, that would be a pretty crappy QA system)

B) This is not just a bug. It never was. The "broken" dances have never been a bug. It is a complicated technical issue that we can not as players tell the Devs how to do better. Even if someone in here had the knowledge of the technical aspects, they still wouldn't have access to the actual game code and setup so they would still just be guessing.

But we as players don't have to have any technical knowledge about this. We pay our subscription, and we can expect SOE to make it work. I know this might be a somewhat simplistic view, but on the other hand, what are we supposed to think of a company that gives us the promise of something great, starts to implement it, then halfway through says "Sorry, it's too difficult. We'll just leave it half-broken as it is now. Have a nice day."

C) This is at its core a Design Issue and Feature Request as TH is fond of calling them. That we can work on as a community. That we have some limited input on.

Yeah, a working game is one hell of a Feature Request, alright...

That's it. That's all I know about this set up and all I have to offer. If you guys give Deila the feedback of "we hate this, make it go away" it will still very likely go to the Live servers and then in another patch it will get put right back how it was and they will never try to fix it again.

As opposed to what? Them pushing it live as it is and THEN never trying to fix it again? Because this is what a lot of people worry will happen. And going from experience, they have every right to worry about this.

They don't have to fix something as surface as a Dancer display issue. That's why it has sat like this up until now. If you guys want to toss this opportunity away, fine. I would feel badly if I didn't at least make an attempt at trying to give the community I care so much about a heads up on what seems the best way to handle this. I have now, so, do whatever you want.

So who's being fatalistic now? That sounds as if you are saying "We're not worthy,giving everyone else a working game is far more important than giving us a working game, and we should be thankful for every little scrap of attention we get from the Devs - it's not as if we really deserve it, as compared to, say, Jedi or any other combat class."
Before you misunderstand me, I know of course that this is NOT what you are saying, however: this is exactlyhow a large part of both player-base and (one has to assume) also the Developers see us. Amd we really shouldn't support this view. The meek shall NOT inherit the Earth.

I doubt that the way things are always done for fixes and issues in a profession will be done any differently for us, but who knows. Maybe you guys are right. Maybe you can ask Deila to tell the Devs not to send this to live until they have a better plan. They will listen and not push it to live. Then they will spend tons of time trying to work out a solution. They'll keep at it till they get it perfect all with out it ever hitting live in any kind of broken form.

Ok, sure, nothing has ever worked like that in this game ever before, but maybe it will for us this time. Ok, I'll cross my fingers and hope you guys are right and I'm just confused. I get confused easily, so I shouldn't have a hard time convincing myself of that.

*goes into ditz mode and shuts up*

Short summary of what I'm trying to say: yes I realize that we are a minority, but for all that,my subscription money says that I still deserve to be able to play this game the way I want it without any game-stopping bugs. Nobody here wants to have the rules changed just for us, nobody says we're special as compared to everyone else. What we do say is that we're not worth less as customers and players than everyone else, though. Unfortunately, this is exactly the impression that SOE gives us though.

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After totally freeling up my computer with clicking on all kind of folders because I really, really wanted to see the dances, it took my husband rest of the night to fix the mess I made of things
So, needless to say I didn’t get to Test yet, however after seeing Tiaga’s video I honestly think the “being in two places at once” scenario will/must be fixed. Not only because of us, but because of the problems it would give those /watching us.
Wouldn’t they like keep on getting “you stopped watching so-and-so, so-and-so is too far away” message?
Can you just imagine the lag-infested place like for example MO? How they would have to “chase” after the dancers to /watch them?
Roflmao, in a twisted way it’s actually funny to picture the resulting bug reports….
/bug hey man I’m standing on top of my buddy’s BoT but it tells me I’m too far away!!1!!!1!! ”
Hopefully I’ll be able to get to test this weekend, unless I kill my computer again
I’m really trying to be optimistic here.

Deli’ah

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ChaoKuang wrote:

I think to avoid that, you'd need to be safe and do a non-drifting dance, and not Tumble, Tumble2, or any of the high-drift dances. As Panthu mentioned, there are dances that don't twitch or drift out of place.

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This is not an accurate statement, all of the Dances have this problem, there are none that are safe. Just varying levels or how bad and how fast it happens. Over time however no dance is safe, however I don't see the ones that aren't real mobile being an issue with buffing.

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Ravenmist wrote:

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ChaoKuang wrote:

I think to avoid that, you'd need to be safe and do a non-drifting dance, and not Tumble, Tumble2, or any of the high-drift dances. As Panthu mentioned, there are dances that don't twitch or drift out of place.

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This is not an accurate statement, all of the Dances have this problem, there are none that are safe. Just varying levels or how bad and how fast it happens. Over time however no dance is safe, however I don't see the ones that aren't real mobile being an issue with buffing.

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Mhm..even at the most stationary of times, the dancer appears to spin uncontrollably. Combine this with a little drift and there's no way we can appear to be dancing together for long..but I don't think it'll effect the bots.

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Panthu wrote:

A) No player can stop something from going to the Live servers from TC. TC Regs and Corrs try it all the time. In the end, it is a wasted effort to get hung up on that. Terrible things have gone live from TC like the massive series of Warcry bugs and things that have completely stopped the Jedi or BH gameplay.

Yes I agree, its SOE's development cycle not ours. However if they don't accept feedback from user acceptance testing then they need to shut down their test servers. I sure hope I get an application from one of these guys, if they were delivering product their own corporation used they would quickly learn the real power of the user.

B) This is not just a bug. It never was. The "broken" dances have never been a bug. It is a complicated technical issue that we can not as players tell the Devs how to do better. Even if someone in here had the knowledge of the technical aspects, they still wouldn't have access to the actual game code and setup so they would still just be guessing.

That is double speak and if you don't realize it you should. A complicated technical issue that causes functionality to work incorrectly is a BUG. I work in the IT industry and have for more years than some of the geniuses have been alive. Let me give you a little secret, computer programmers make an art of creating techno-geek double talk to keep from having to produce valid code.

I know you are a player just like us, I know you are a volunteer, I also know they don't have to listen to you or to us. I also know that if you don't call them on there BS and bluffs they will continue them. Tell them pointedly that the changes break dancers completely. If they are so unconcerned about dancers abilities being broken and dysfunctional and push it to live then we have a clear signal that the profession is not an issue and we can all drop the skills and move on.

C) This is at its core a Design Issue and Feature Request as TH is fond of calling them. That we can work on as a community. That we have some limited input on.

BS, BS, BS, BS, BS. OK you can, if you aren't concerned about lash back, pass the following statement on to TH from me.

"TH as a 20 year development veteran I know that fixing a design flaw is not a feature request and it is bug. If you guys don't have the ability to fix the basedanceissue then simply roll it back until you can find the talent to do so. To release a code change that breaks functionality is not only the worst change management process I have seen but the worst customer relations I've ever seen. Put yourself in the users shoes, that's your job or at least your team architects job. Quit feeding the non-technical coors technical double speak to keep you from having to do your job because some of us out here do get it and do know the BS you are spreading. Elwyn LyteFoot, stations names LyteFoot and Erryn"

That's it. That's all I know about this set up and all I have to offer. If you guys give Deila the feedback of "we hate this, make it go away" it will still very likely go to the Live servers and then in another patch it will get put right back how it was and they will never try to fix it again.

They don't have to fix something as surface as a Dancer display issue. That's why it has sat like this up until now. If you guys want to toss this opportunity away, fine. I would feel badly if I didn't at least make an attempt at trying to give the community I care so much about a heads up on what seems the best way to handle this. I have now, so, do whatever you want.

I doubt that the way things are always done for fixes and issues in a profession will be done any differently for us, but who knows. Maybe you guys are right. Maybe you can ask Deila to tell the Devs not to send this to live until they have a better plan. They will listen and not push it to live. Then they will spend tons of time trying to work out a solution. They'll keep at it till they get it perfect all with out it ever hitting live in any kind of broken form.

Ok, sure, nothing has ever worked like that in this game ever before, but maybe it will for us this time. Ok, I'll cross my fingers and hope you guys are right and I'm just confused. I get confused easily, so I shouldn't have a hard time convincing myself of that.

*goes into ditz mode and shuts up*

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I'm beginning to wonder why I even worry or care anymore. Sheesh it is so obvious that this team has absolutely no real talent left, doesn't care about anything but putting in their 40 hours and going home, and is willing to lie and distract with double speak to keep from having to deal with the players. They aren't just destroying this profession they are busting down every single profession that doesn't make this FPS more fun for combat.

Whats up, are most of the devs 17 year old FPS fans now?

Call me dumb but I keep hoping this still has time to be fixed before the release. All in all, this is why it's called Test Center, to test things before thy break everything on Live ^^
But has this big issue been ported with enough strenght to the official TC topic already? Didnt read very carefully there, but 90% of the post up there are talking about the new Galaxy-wide Vendor Search stuff ^^

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Ravenmist wrote:

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ChaoKuang wrote:

I think to avoid that, you'd need to be safe and do a non-drifting dance, and not Tumble, Tumble2, or any of the high-drift dances. As Panthu mentioned, there are dances that don't twitch or drift out of place.

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This is not an accurate statement, all of the Dances have this problem, there are none that are safe. Just varying levels or how bad and how fast it happens. Over time however no dance is safe, however I don't see the ones that aren't real mobile being an issue with buffing.

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I danced for a good, long time with a partner doing the Exotics. For the entire, ENTIRE time he and I danced, neither he nor I spun or drifted in place, so yes, it is an accurate statement, thanks. The amount of time we were dancing was enough to buff a good number of people. He didn't drift and neither did I, because he would have said something otherwise.

Exotic is the only dance that never moves at all.