Dancer Archive

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Ikewe wrote:

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ChaoKuang wrote:

Those problems are in the works. They're already working on recursive macros,

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The problem is that I don't know that they are still in the works. I've not heard one word to indicate that is still the case. Believe me I want to be happy about this profession. I have stayed with it through all the pain because I could see the potential for it. But given the numbers on my server it's getting harder and harder to do that. I'll accept that these things take time. I'll accept that we won't get all of our issues addressed in one sweeping fix. But I need Tiggs to say "we are still working to remove AFKtainers." Just that. No promise of a date. No details on how it will be done. I just need that little phrase so I can have the hope for the future that you have. I don't think that's asking too much. It has been the top issue for as long as I can remember and it becomes more and more urgent every day. Would it really be so hard for them to tell us the problem is still being addressed? One simple post would make such a huge difference for so many. I know you are tired of the "negativity". Believe me those of us who are unhappy are probably even more tired of it than you can ever be. But telling fellow entertainers to "just leave" accomplishes what exactly? Let's at least try to support each other rather than work to make our numbers dwindle even further.

cheers,

Ikewe

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I've been in the game practically since launch, and always had an entertainer. I've mastered all four Entertainer professions at seperate times. I'm as frustrated and annoyed as everyone else. But these forums can take so much negativity and using the forums as a bathroom to piss on everything the Devs give us. I'm sorry, but the bathroom's too crowded. Stop pissing on the floor. Telling another to "just leave" would at least make the floors cleaner for us, who still enjoy the profession and appreciate what we're given. And I'm sorry if I'm tired of seeing piss puddles all over the place.

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ChaoKuang wrote:

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Pappi wrote:
guys... be happy! it's new content and bug fixes... politicians would give an arm and a leg for those I'm as concerned about entertainers as anyone else in here, but I also know I can't expect them to fix entertainers in one patch (Rome wasn't build in a day, etc..) for one I'm glad we're getting something, since that's a WHOLE LOT better than getting nothing

being negative won't get us anywhere... it'll just make us look like whiners. your correspondents are hard at work to fight for you guys, do you want to negate their effort with your attitudes?

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THANK YOU, Pappi! Exactly what I've been trying to say.

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Yeah, I'm just gonna shut up for now.

The extended timeframe of delivery gave me some delusions of what was going to be presented.

Yeah, it's fun. And it's a couple of fixes.

It's better than a kick in **edit** and at least something's happening for us.

I'm still just pissed off about buffbots

Was hoping they'd announce they'd be saving us from the plague.

But there is nothing inherently bad in this update. I just had totally different ideas of what "pretty positive changes" meant, after having a bit too long to dream about it.

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ChaoKuang wrote:

edited because there's no point any more. I have no idea why I even try.

Message Edited by Ikewe on 03-11-2005 01:59 PM

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Groovymarlin wrote:

Here's what we should do, IMHO:

1. Test all these fixes (yes, some of them ARE bug fixes) and enhancements on Test Center. Thoroughly. Let's make sure that if there's any problem with this stuff (like if the base animation on moving dances is still broken, or there's any problem with the new ones, etc.) that we make plenty of noise about it on Test Center. Unfortunately there's still a 50% chance the changes will go live with problems, but we have to fight as much as we can.

2. Enjoy the changes! You don't have to feel guilty about loving the fact that there are two new dances (let's face it, "Dance" and "Dance2" are basically the same thing), two new songs, no more falling, reduced ID timers, etc. However, keep in mind my next point...

3. Don't sit back and be complacent with just this stuff (like any of you would ever do that, LOL). Keep coming up with creative ideas for an entertainer game. Keep making our voices heard on the AFK issue, the "our role in the game" issue, and all the other things we think are important. Make our voices heard!

4. Be prepared for big changes. They are coming. I'm not breaking any NDA when I say that the CU may be a combat upgrade in name, but it's going to affect us just as much as the combatants. Prepare yourself for the fact that what we know of as our function today, may not be our function tomorrow, and that it may take a while even post-CU to actually know what our function and role is to be.

5. Be excellent to each other. Stop one-starring each other. Keep tempers in check. Don't flame. We all may have different visions of what the entertainer is in SWG, but the bottom line is, we're all entertainers. We have to present a united front to the non-entertainers and the devs. I really think this is crucial. And it's just good manners.

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Best post I've seen yet.

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Warryyr wrote:

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ChaoKuang wrote:

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Pappi wrote:
guys... be happy! it's new content and bug fixes... politicians would give an arm and a leg for those I'm as concerned about entertainers as anyone else in here, but I also know I can't expect them to fix entertainers in one patch (Rome wasn't build in a day, etc..) for one I'm glad we're getting something, since that's a WHOLE LOT better than getting nothing

being negative won't get us anywhere... it'll just make us look like whiners. your correspondents are hard at work to fight for you guys, do you want to negate their effort with your attitudes?

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THANK YOU, Pappi! Exactly what I've been trying to say.

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Yeah, I'm just gonna shut up for now.

The extended timeframe of delivery gave me some delusions of what was going to be presented.

Yeah, it's fun. And it's a couple of fixes.

It's better than a kick in **edit** and at least something's happening for us.

I'm still just pissed off about buffbots

Was hoping they'd announce they'd be saving us from the plague.

But there is nothing inherently bad in this update. I just had totally different ideas of what "pretty positive changes" meant, after having a bit too long to dream about it.

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you know we're all not happy about the buffbot stuff... but you also know that you shouldn't let it prevent you from enjoying new stuff, and that this isn't the thread for buffbots. don't give them that power over you...

Hats off Pappi good point!!!!!!!

It's true when we allow ourselves to be obsessed with the presence of the bots still in game - and not enjoy any enhancements that are coming we are allowing them to have power over us.

Ok, while I do understand the general cynicism of many of our members here, I have to say I'm quite surprised to see so many people who seem disappointed and possibly even more upset at these upcoming fixes and enhancements. I checked in to the site today and found posts on smuggler revamp docs and fixes to long time dancer issues and new songs and dances. I almost had to wonder if this is the same dev team that's been working on this game all along. I anxiously clicked over to the Dancer board to see what people think about our upcoming changes, and found this thread. I'm a dancer and I get where the frustration is coming from, but frankly, I think some of you should be ashamed of yourselves for the negative comments. I can't help but to think of a child that complains about not getting *enough* presents for Xmas. If I were a developer reading a thread like this after having completed some of these changes, I might start thinking that our community was ungrateful.

We've long had the problem of the devs not listening to us and not fixing the things that we wanted fixed in our professions, but it looks to me like they're listening now. We couldn't use some of our dances because the base dances are broken - upcoming fix. Dancers shouldn't have to fall because it spoils immersion and musicians have no similar mechanic - falls are being removed. The 15 second delay between stopping and starting is annoying and makes it harder for us to put on the kind of performances we would like to do - the delay is being removed. We need more content like songs and dances - more songs and dances are being added.

I know that our "big ticket" item is not there though - the removal of AFK. I'm waiting for that as much as everyone else is, but as it was promised by both TH and Tyrant, I still have faith that it is coming. From the what they said, I think that they do realize that AFK macros are bad for the game, and have no intention of keeping them despite all the outcries from people who want to keep their precious ent. and doc bots, and AFK tumblers, spammers, looters, levelers and so on. For one thing, keep in mind this is not an "entertainer fix". We don't even WANT it to be an "entertainer fix". How many times have we had to remind the trolls who lumbered in here trying to claim that the devs were taking out recursive macros just because of "ent. whiners" that we never asked for that solution - just a solution to AFK entertainers. The removal of AFK is going to be a big change to the game - one that will likely require significant testing to make sure that there are no workarounds, changes to the EULA so that it will now be considered an offense, and a paradigm shift for the CSRs responsible for enforcing the changes and who up to now have probably been directed to be permissive of AFK in most of its forms. As much as I want to see this done *YESTERDAY* as most of you, I'm sure, do, I realize that the devs (or their higher ups) are the ones to set the priorities and schedules for what gets worked on and when. I'm still running on faith based on comments made by Tyrant that the AFK removal is at or near the top of the list of significant fixes to be worked on, and I have hope that we may see this change coming any time in the next few weeks or possibly months. When this change does come, I wouldn't expect to see it any list of changes for the entertainer professions, but rather a general change affecting the gameplay as a whole.

With that in mind I welcome the recently announced changes, and would like to thank the devs for finally fixing these issues and adding new content for us and also thank the correspondents who've kept the pressure on the devs to make these changes happen. In answer to the question proposed at the top of this thread, it is my guess that this is the *it* as far as the announcement we were expecting last week, and about which many people were upset about not seeing then. I do not think that this is *it* as far as our rumored entertainer revamp by a long shot. I know that more changes are coming for us even if I'm not sure what they all are yet. To those privvy to secret testing details, keep in mind that only a part of the picture has been revealed, and there is still more information to be released before judgements can be made or improvements can be suggested. I think there is more that is unsaid, than has been said.

I'm getting a little concerned at the attitude in these forums sometimes. It's almost like we've had a negative attitude for so long, that maybe some of us are starting to revel in the negativity. To me it seems like after all this time we have two basic choices: either give up because we can't wait any longer or because we just can't see any light at the end of the tunnel, or give the developers some "reasonable time" to make the changes they seem to be trying to make right now, and then decide whether we like them or not (and yes, we each have to decide we consider "reasonable time" to be). I just don't see any point in continuing to complain about the problems that we all know about, or in criticizing the fixes and new content that we are now getting. I, for one, will be enjoying these improvements when they make it to live, but I won't be forgetting that there are still things that need to be done and things that I want to see. I'll still be pushing for continued improvements in whatever way I can, and as long as I continue to believe that the devs are genuinely working to finally fix what's wrong with our profession, I'm going to give them the time they need to do it and do it right.

*Edited for typos*

Message Edited by DanceRulez on 03-11-2005 05:26 PM

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Groovymarlin wrote:
5. Be excellent to each other. Stop one-starring each other. Keep tempers in check. Don't flame. We all may have different visions of what the entertainer is in SWG, but the bottom line is, we're all entertainers. We have to present a united front to the non-entertainers and the devs. I really think this is crucial. And it's just good manners.

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Hear hear!


Umi

And hey, remember...it's better than a sharp stick in the eye!!

LOL

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DanceRulez wrote:
I almost had to wonder if this is the same dev team that's been working on this game all along.

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DanceRulez wrote:
Ok, while I do understand the general cynicism of many of our members here, I have to say I'm quite surprised to see so many people who seem disappointed and possibly even more upset at these upcoming fixes and enhancements. I checked in to the site today and found posts on smuggler revamp docs and fixes to long time dancer issues and new songs and dances. I almost had to wonder if this is the same dev team that's been working on this game all along. I anxiously clicked over to the Dancer board to see what people think about our upcoming changes, and found this thread. I'm a dancer and I get where the frustration is coming from, but frankly, I think some of you should be ashamed of yourselves for the negative comments. I can't help but to think of a child that complains about not getting *enough* presents for Xmas. If I were a developer reading a thread like this after having completed some of these changes, I might start thinking that our community was ungrateful.

We've long had the problem of the devs not listening to us and not fixing the things that we wanted fixed in our professions, but it looks to me like they're listening now. We couldn't use some of our dances because the base dances are broken - upcoming fix. Dancers shouldn't have to fall because it spoils immersion and musicians have no similar mechanic - falls are being removed. The 15 second delay between stopping and is annoying and makes it harder for us to put on the kind of performances we would like to do - the delay is being removed. We need more content like songs and dances - more songs and dances are being added.

I know that our "big ticket" item is not there though - the removal of AFK. I'm waiting for that as much as everyone else is, but as it was promised by both TH and Tyrant, I still have faith that it is coming. From the what they said, I think that they do realize that AFK macros are bad for the game, and have no intention of keeping them despite all the outcries from people who want to keep their precious ent. and doc bots, and AFK tumblers, spammers, looters, levelers and so on. For one thing, keep in mind this is not an "entertainer fix". We don't even WANT it to be an "entertainer fix". How many times have we had to remind the trolls who lumbered in here trying to claim that the devs were taking out recursive macros just because of "ent. whiners" that we never asked for that solution - just a solution to AFK entertainers. The removal of AFK is going to be a big change to the game - one that will likely require significant testing to make sure that there are no workarounds, changes to the EULA so that it will now be considered an offense, and a paradigm shift for the CSRs responsible for enforcing the changes and who up to now have probably been directed to be permissive of AFK in most of its forms. As much as I want to see this done *YESTERDAY* as most of you, I'm sure, do, I realize that the devs (or their higher ups) are the ones to set the priorities and schedules for what gets worked on and when. I'm still running on faith based on comments made my Tyrant that the AFK removal is at or near the top of the list of significant fixes to be worked on, and I have hope that we may see this change coming any time in the next few weeks or possibly months. When this change does come, I wouldn't expect to see it any list of changes for the entertainer professions, but rather a general change affecting the gameplay as a whole.

With that in mind I welcome the recently announced changes, and would like to thank the devs for finally fixing these issues and adding new content for us and also thank the correspondents who've kept the pressure on the devs to make these changes happen. In answer to the question proposed at the top of this thread, it is my guess that this is the *it* as far as the announcement we were expecting last week, and about which many people were upset about not seeing then. I do not think that this is *it* as far as our rumored entertainer revamp by a long shot. I know that more changes are coming for us even if I'm not sure what they all are yet. To those privvy to secret testing details, keep in mind that only a part of the picture has been revealed, and there is still more information to be released before judgements can be made or improvements can be suggested. I think there is more that is unsaid, than has been said.

I'm getting a little concerned at the attitude in these forums sometimes. It's almost like we've had a negative attitude for so long, that maybe some of us are starting to revel in the negativity. To me it seems like after all this time we have two basic choices: either give up because we can't wait any longer or because we just can't see any light at the end of the tunnel, or give the developers some "reasonable time" to make the changes they seem to be trying to make right now, and then decide whether we like them or not (and yes, we each have to decide we consider "reasonable time" to be). I just don't see any point in continuing to complain about the problems that we all know about, or in criticizing the fixes and new content that we are now getting. I, for one, will be enjoying these improvements when they make it to live, but I won't be forgetting that there are still things that need to be done and things that I want to see. I'll still be pushing for continued improvements in whatever way I can, and as long as I continue to believe that the devs are genuinely working to finally fix what's wrong with our profession, I'm going to give them the time they need to do it and do it right.

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Another wonderful post! The negativity is so sickening these days.

To those who are completely happy with this and have no concerns about the future:

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Groovymarlin wrote:
"The problem boils down to whether you have hope or fear about the future of the profession. If you are still hopeful then this announcement is nothing but good news. If you are not, then these changes are simply the pillow they give you to kneel on before they chop your head off."

Exactly. Some of us have very good reasons to have more fear than hope. Unfortunately there's also an NDA in effect that prevents enumerating those reasons. So ease up on those of us who aren't exactly dancing on air over this announcement.

Good things? For now, yes. But not enough for the long term. Not nearly enough.

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QFE again

Message Edited by SFXGenesis on 03-11-2005 03:06 PM

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SFXGenesis wrote:

To those who are completely happy with this and have no concerns about the future:

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I don't think anyone's saying they're completely happy wsith the changes, but rather that we should view this change as a positive one and shows that they have not forgotten about our requests. more changes are definitely needed, but enjoy the current ones!