Dancer Archive
Thread: So much hatred for AFKers.
Here is what I said
Wow that is just so sad, you'll have your goon squad attack a non-combat profession player. Gosh I bet you get some jollies from that. And yet its not really the people you hate.
Wow, nothing in their about banning, yet you said
Hey Dius, mind explaining why Tiaga doesn't have the right to ban whomever he wants *FROM THE BUILDING HE OWNS*?
So once again, you indeed "missed the point" brainiac. I think you need to go back to grad school, if you couldn't see the point set forth in 3 sentences.
Read this slowly since it has gone over your head the last two time.
1. Banning someone from your establishment is fine, I DON'T have a problem with that.
2. Banning and then ATTACKING someone in your "city" for afk macroing. IS .LAME.AND.PATHETIC.Especially seeing as how many enteratiners are NON COMBAT professions. Having to ATTACK them shows there is actual MALICIOUSNESS since banning would have done the job in itself.
There is NO Double standard.
i can't say i hate AFKers . . . . I know some and they actually are good people. Alot of them have a legit reason to do it (even if it is only legit in their minds). Some do it to try to catch up to a friend, some do it due to holo grinding (not real big on these myself but i can't hate them cause they're only doing what they think is right) and some do it to help support player cities and put down a player cantina or theater.
Yeah its a problem but to come out and openly say "I'm gonna AFK dance in the middle of the catina and I don't give a Rats @$$ about how you feel about it" is just plain wrong. You may not think you're being rude but . . . well . . . you are. I understand if you have to go to AFK to get a quick bite for 10 minutes, maybe stir your chili or change your babies diaper and I don't have a probelem with that. If you say, "hey can I go AKF in your group for a while?" and I'm feeling generous 
I might send an invite.
The hatred comes from respect or a lack of and that is what alot of people feel. Everyone does it, some even try to find it by not tagging themselves but its about respect. Entertainers who use it as a real proffession in the game often feel cheated cause you are "stealing" our XP or keeping us from getting tips especially when you do it in cantinas. You don't have to accept it but you should understand it.
Jedi Paddy unlocked 11/13/05, 11:00 pm est 
DiusFidus wrote:
2. Banning and then ATTACKING someone in your "city" for afk macroing. IS .LAME.AND.PATHETIC.Especially seeing as how many enteratiners are NON COMBAT professions. Having to ATTACK them shows there is actual MALICIOUSNESS since banning would have done the job in itself.
There is NO Double standard.
Banning them just results in someone dancing/playing out in the street instead, which is still a bit annoying, though not as much so. How would you feel if someone was really bothering you, so you kicked them out of your house, and they sat on your porch instead?
Killing them stops them from spamming and performing. And it sends a clear message.
Bur seriously, why get so worked up over a virtual death with no real consequences in the game? If they are truly non combatant, they won't care. I have some combat skills, but am mostly entertainer. I just shrug off a single death like that. And it's not like they don't get plenty of warning. If they actually played the game instead of just leaving a macro while they did something else, it would never have been a problem, would it? You will find that I am quite nice to people. However, NPCs are another matter. If someone wants to impersonate an NPC, then I'll treat them like one.
Though, it is quite a moot point now and has been for awhile, since citywarn hasn't been around since last year.
Gentle Reader,
I'm not sure what was missed here, but DiusFidus did not challenge the idea of banning AFK dancers.... rather he found it deplorable that Tiaga would actually have them attacked (if they were repeat offenders?). I feel the same. That's downright mean.
Someone explain to me how you can be a repeat offender if you are banned from the establishment altogether?
There aren't that many options for us in player cities to efficiently deal with griefers or AFK entertainers. Even a city ban isn't really all that great. They wouldn't even care whether they can make use of the facilities the city has to offer, as long as they can get into the town they can still do whatever. Now with citywarn gone, all we can do is just attempt to ignore and move on. Not very effective tho.
Chessack wrote:
Because it ruins the ambience, and that affects how hard or easy it is to imagine yourself as your character and play the role. So-called "leet speak" (or 1337 5p34k if you really want to say it right) is exactly the same in this regard. Can I /addignore Mr. LeetSpeaker after a few incoherent out-of-character babblings? Sure. But it without question ruins the ambience of the "RP session" (if you want to call it that). You have to stop thinking in character, and execute the out of character ignore command, which interrupts the stream of RP.
You are literally correct that the AFKers can't stop me from RPing my character. But, it is much harder to picture yourself being in that real Star Wars cantina when you have a bunch of tip-spamming AFKers clogging the center of the dance floor.
I agree with you, but I did say in my post that the afk-spammers and inconsiderate people are annoying and that is unfortunately a problem. But its not so much a problem with AFK as it is a problem with inconsiderate people, and I specifically mentioned that it would be far WORSE if those same people had to level solely at the keyboard. Imagine how inconsiderate they would be if they had to sit there for 30 hours doing something they hate staring at the screen with nothing better to do? People on the hunt for FSCS will not let the lack of AFK macro stop them, I know I wouldn't.
In that regard, if you and many others simply hate inconsiderate people, I am 100% on your side. I have griefers and inconsiderate people in game as well as in real life. I hate 733t 5p34k or whatever the 13 year olds call it, and I try not to interfere with someone else's in game experience unless they really tick me off. But you have to think more than 5 feet in front of you and look at the long term effect. If those people can master these professions overnight and during general downtime and not be around to specifically harrass you or other patrons, and they are in and out of the cantinas as soon as possible, the entertainment community will be better off. You force those people to sit at the screen during prime time doing nothing but hitting macro buttons??? You will have a FAR worse experience and many more people, entertainers and otherwise, would quit the game.
Personally so far I have done 80% at the keyboard and 20% afk I should hit master entertainers tonight... I realize Dancer and Musician will take a little longer and my ratio may slip to 60-40, but when I am afk I start in the corner, flourish every 10 seconds, and I don't say a word. Of course dance moves sometimes migrate me to the middle of the room... sorry about that.
- Broog
See there you go. "Dance moves migrate." You don't bother to correct that do you?
What's that? You don't know how?
Find a dancer who knows what he or she is doing and ask. Oh wait. You can't find any. They all left already, and only AFK macroers remain, and I guarantee you they don't know the first thing about controlling drift.
It CAN be controlled, including in a Macro. Velvet Dancer showed me how with Lyrical one time (right after I got it). The problem is, nobody bothers to really LEARN dancing any more. They just AFK their way to master and title or not still have no clue how to actually do it.
Music is just as bad. You know how many master musicians don't know you can pick a specific instrument type to do a bandflourish with, so for instance the 3 fizzzes can flourish while the bandfills and nalargons play the base song? Almost none. Heck, I've known master dancers and musicians who didn't even know you could bandflourish. That is really sad.
As for "they are AFK they will leave sooner" or "glad they are not at keyboard they would be jerks." It doesn't work. Other than Holocrons (a relatively new invention, much younger than the AFK problem), most people who AFK macro would not be dancers at all if they couldn't macro. Now, if they get bored or annoyed, they AFK macro. Without that, if they got bored or annoyed, they'd do what you do in any other normal profession -- drop it. When I found BE annoying and uninteresting, I didn't find a way to AFK macro it; I quit. That's what these people would have to do. Sure a few would stick around and be jerks, but the vast majority would just go. And as for them leaving sooner, this has been going on since just after launch and there are if anything MORE of them now than there ever were before, so the evidence mitigates against this argument.
I will say it again. I don't hate them. But don't tell me their ambience-ruining zombie-ness isn't able to ruin my fun. It can, and does.
C
Broog wrote:
I agree with you, but I did say in my post that the afk-spammers and inconsiderate people are annoying and that is unfortunately a problem. But its not so much a problem with AFK as it is a problem with inconsiderate people, and I specifically mentioned that it would be far WORSE if those same people had to level solely at the keyboard.
Ah, but you see, I think AFK people ARE inconsiderate.
If they are ATK and causing a problem, they can be reported and dealt with. However, there will be less of them about because they will gain master FASTER while ATK (Meaning less time in the cantina) so will be out quicker.
no what is lame is taking part in or supporting a proffession breaking issue like afk macrotaining obviously you do but that just means your part of the problem it is totally lame to afk macrotain... have you not seen all the posts (by entertainers AND COMBATANTS) that want the cantina's to return to what they once were?
DiusFidus wrote:
IS .LAME.AND.PATHETIC.Especially seeing as how many enteratiners are NON COMBAT professions. Having to ATTACK them shows there is actual MALICIOUSNESS since banning would have done the job in itself.
Basically what i am saying is, I don't AFK Macro anything else but entertainer skills, it not my cup of tea. But da**ed if i am going to pay to be a dancer 1 minute longer then i have to.
You need to understand though that there were tons of AFK macorers long before this, who would say they wanted to AFK macro bacause the profession was boring, but yet somehow despite the fact that they hated the profession they still wanted to master it. Those people are the AFK macroers most of us were unhappy with. Not the hologrinders. Hologrinders are just doing what they have to do to become Jedi. Again... what they have to do is not their choice, it's SOE and LA's, and a bad choice it was.
C
Where at one time I thought the holocron-profession based Jedi system was going to kill the game, I now would have to differ. I have mastered only 11 professions so far and I am working on Dancer now and then Musician after that but let me explain why I think its not as bad as I first thought it would be:
I started at launch (beta 3 really) and wanted to pursue Bounty Hunter. I had no idea what I was getting into. Played a bit here and there took a month off at some point in disugst since Lowca server use to be the worst (now its Bria). I mastered Marksman and then Scout (not simultaneously I really had no idea what I was doing) and began BH. I saw how rough the investigation line was... got half way up that max the weapons (when they finally put the metal for LLC back in game then fixed them that took 3 months) and got a few holocrons.
The day after I ditched my investigation skills, the fix came in increasing payout and xp per mission (crap!) so I went right back to it grinded for a week or so and mastered BH. Here is where it got interesting.
I knew already my first holo profession was architect. I decided to master Ranger so I could totally drop scout skills (could go back to CH one day if needed). Mastering ranger sucked and I gained nothing from it. Tracking was ok though so at least I learned how that worked. Meanwhile used a friends 7 lots and my own 8 lots (minus house) mostly with PEM mining ore.
Finish ragner, start architect. LOVED it. I had dabbled in crafting before but I really loved architect except the night I ran out of ore during the ore shortage. That sucked. Sold walls to get back some costs still spent like 1.5 mil on it though. This is a profession I would never, ever have done but for the holocron. I learned about the resource market, diff types of harvesters, furniture statues etc this was right when player cities first went live so it was an exciting time except that I was really just grinding.
Next holo = Doc. Always wanted to try it. Took the short cut and had a friend afk tumble using stims. Took a long time. Learned how crappy crafting in medicine was. However learned how the rez packs work, and more importantly learned about buffs, something I had rarely done in my BH days. As a BH when missions are 1 hour each it does not pay to get buffed. I learned how they are made how they work, and how crappy it is that the same buff pack can hit for 1k or 2700. Its a stupid system... fits in with SWG.
Next holo = swordsman. Before that figured lets get CM out of the way. Did it buy selling buffs. Buff xp is amazing (50%) and there is always a huge demand for doc buffs even if they are pretty good and not great. Again grinding med crafting is hell. I used one ranged stim... didnt understand it only seemed to heal one person... er is it group only? Never made poison or disease packs so did not learn much from this but got it out of the way.
Swordsman. I enjoyed swordsman more than any other single profession in the game. This is a profession I would NEVER have tried. This is not EQ, its Star Wars. I did not see anyone in the movies ever use a 2 handed sword that was not a lightsaber. When the game launched I thought it was stupid to have melee professions. Realistically, who would run around with a sword or a pike in the technological age? There is no immersion value here its EQ in space (where is space anyway?). Of course I also do not remember in the movies having to shoot things 20 times to kill them (see BH missions unless u get LLC4). I mean its just a bad, bad system, and a poor game.
In any event I thoroughly enjoyed swordsman, bought a set of composite AND then ubese to test out each. Got more into the doc buffs and Muon Gold which I had scarcely used before and I found out how tough melee characters can be and that you don't really need 8k HAM to be a tank like a rancor if you have 3k and great minor stats and great armor and some Muon. But for holo never would have done any melee and had no idea.
Next holo = silent. Decided lets do the 4 entertainer professions seems easy enough.
ID is the worst profession in the game. It took me longer than normal because of the ID bug where people have an outstanding offer, which they really do not. Learned a workaround where you can xfer the bug. Er... IDed someone who did not know what they want took like 20 minutes to give them the right hair because the customer does not get to see the chart of all the hairstyles.... didnt even get a tip that time... putrid profession. However learned about dancer/musician buffs. 6 months ater launch did not understand how they work, now I do.
Mastered entertainer, somewhat afk somewhat ATK and since i never grouped much I am finally getting a little social (usually my best aspect fast typer and good talker). Learned you cannot master these professions in 1 day each when I was getting 8xp per tick and no heal xp per tick at novice lol.
Anyway as you can see, my point is I was exposed to many different aspects of the game I would never have otherwise been exposed to.
Do I think its a perfect system? Heck no. I still dont think its a great system and the silent holocron thing to me basically means you need no holo since you will likely master 20 professions anyway.
If people ruin other people's true professions, which will undoubtedly continue to happen (crafters selling stuff below or at cost to make back some cash, afk-tainers spamming tips and heal requests, jedi selling death to BH for inv. xp, we can go on and on) then it is probably bad for the game in the long run. If people respect the true professionals in the game and try to actually learn something each step of the way, they will learn a lot more about the game and how things work, and not step on other people's toes thus ruining their enjoyment of the game. Of course that cant happen because most people really do not respect other people, and the holocrons are really bringing out the worst in people. The problem is more the people, than the holocrons.
Finally I still say, it would be far worse to have these degenerates AT the keyboard for 2 weeks grinding out the xp than if they can be in and out in a few days by afk-overnight and at work.
- Broog
Anyway as you can see, my point is I was exposed to many different aspects of the game I would never have otherwise been exposed to.
Finally I still say, it would be far worse to have these degenerates AT the keyboard for 2 weeks grinding out the xp than if they can be in and out in a few days by afk-overnight and at work.
It seems to me these are in contradiction with each other. You are on one hand saying that it's not such a bad system because you experienced so much of the game, then on the other saying these people can just skip that part.
And as to your last point... If they are ATK and jerks, there are methods to deal with them. And they will be in the cantina a shorter time if they are ATK. (Sure, it will be over a longer period of time, but they themselves will actually be present less.) As a result there will be less of them in the cantina. The reason I say a shorter time is because healing xp is better when you are ATK. (You don't get kicked from the group for being AFK and end up solo for a long time.)