Dancer Archive
Thread: Mustofar content for Entertainers
Shaizann wrote:
Recently I've come to think of it as the "Entertainer Development Cycle Dilemma". This really, in my peabrain, applies to all the underplayed professions in one way or another.
1) We can't justify Dev cycles or money because we're such a small part of the population we're well below the resource allocation concern list. As a result what we do have stagnates a bit and we get folks that are displeased with the situation and leave the game/profession.
Or...
2) We open the floodgate by reducing/eliminating SP as a requirement for our professions to get more players in. As a result every combat wombat, FS grinder, and Bot-wannabe invades the cantina and AFK macros themselves to hell and back. The folks that play these professions full timebecome annoyed with the loss of identity, our cantinas become more choked than they already are with AFK zombies. What remains of the entertainersbecome displeased with tthe situation and leave the game/profession.
Either way we stand to loose and there is no good solution aside from the non-existant third option. Option 3 is the developers trying to make something more of us than what we have and extend our content in the form of an entertainer PvE game, but that leads right back to Option 1, and the cycle continues.
You know I've been thinking about it a lot too Shail..the Catch 22. I'm not worried about losing my identity..I'm JC and I play games using the name Esharra..but that is just a tiny part of who I am.My identity isn't dependent upon the games by any means. The FS grinders, Bot-wannabes et al have already invaded. And a lot of us have already left. As far as I'm concerned,it's about fun. Is preserving our exclusivity at the expense of a potential for content that much fun for us? What are we gaining from it? Granted, I have no guarantees that more numbers would bring us more content or the kind of content we want..but it certainly doesn't appear to be rushing upon us as things are now.
Esharra wrote:
Shaizann wrote:
Recently I've come to think of it as the "Entertainer Development Cycle Dilemma". This really, in my peabrain, applies to all the underplayed professions in one way or another.
1) We can't justify Dev cycles or money because we're such a small part of the population we're well below the resource allocation concern list. As a result what we do have stagnates a bit and we get folks that are displeased with the situation and leave the game/profession.
Or...
2) We open the floodgate by reducing/eliminating SP as a requirement for our professions to get more players in. As a result every combat wombat, FS grinder, and Bot-wannabe invades the cantina and AFK macros themselves to hell and back. The folks that play these professions full timebecome annoyed with the loss of identity, our cantinas become more choked than they already are with AFK zombies. What remains of the entertainersbecome displeased with tthe situation and leave the game/profession.
Either way we stand to loose and there is no good solution aside from the non-existant third option. Option 3 is the developers trying to make something more of us than what we have and extend our content in the form of an entertainer PvE game, but that leads right back to Option 1, and the cycle continues.
You know I've been thinking about it a lot too Shail..the Catch 22. I'm not worried about losing my identity..I'm JC and I play games using the name Esharra..but that is just a tiny part of who I am.My identity isn't dependent upon the games by any means. The FS grinders, Bot-wannabes et al have already invaded. And a lot of us have already left. As far as I'm concerned,it's about fun. Is preserving our exclusivity at the expense of a potential for content that much fun for us? What are we gaining from it? Granted, I have no guarantees that more numbers would bring us more content or the kind of content we want..but it certainly doesn't appear to be rushing upon us as things are now.
Chessack wrote:
Esharra wrote:
I would absolutely love to see a lot of content aimed at us. But we are a very small percentage of the playerbase and I don't expect they would be able to justify a lot of time and attention on such a small sector.
If that is their argument (and I wouldn't doubt that it is), then my dear Eshie, they've just been hoisted on their own petards.
It isn't their argument.Please note the words I have bolded.
Instead their attitude is, "We're not going to bother spending any time making content for you, but we want you to pay for all the new content NOT designed for you anyway, just to get the tidbits we ARE doing."
I haven't seen this to be their attitude at all C. We complained that we weren't included in previous expansions. So they are giving us a piece of this next one. It is a small piece and probably equates with our share of the playerbase in ratio to the percentage of content.
And that is why people are ticked.
People are ticked because their expectations aren't being met. Are these expectations based upon anything the devs have said or upon our own assumptions and what we would like to be getting?
C
Message Edited by Esharra on 09-19-2005 02:37 AM
Warryyr wrote:
If just the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion is costing $30 and is strictly a download, this better be one GIGANTIC expansion, and if there isn't even a space zone, I don't see the justification for it. The pricing is wrong, in my opinion.
In the past few months we have had changes the devs have given us new props songs dances and effects to help us make our performances more interesting , then they gave us new buffs which made us more popular with crafters and what did the devs get in return whinge moan groan. Now we are getting yet more content and moans and groans again before you start complaining about it why don't you sign up for the beta and check it out if you still complain just don't buy it and leave us real ebtertainers to get on with it.
$30 which works out about £16 is not such a bad price to pay for and expansion concidering most expansions for other games cost £20 +.
Sorry this turned into a rant of sorts but I hate it when entertainers devalue themselves thinking they need game content to be entertainers.
Everyone wants new content both combat and others, combat is the biggest playerbase so its obvious that most of the expansions will be aimed at this market and to be honest im very glad because unlike some spending hours on end in an empty cantina to me gets very very boring so i load up my jedi and go kill things. Be glad they have listened and loot will be schematics for crafters, be glad that they have included anything for the entertainer classes because if there was nothing at all who in general would have noticed?
Id rather they released paid expansions more often than no content at all because that is what leads to stagnation and bored players. So you have to pay every now and then, so be it. If the content doesnt interest you then you are not forced to buy it.
Sorry i just feel many people love to jump on the "beat on the devs" bandwagon over any minor thing, this is a game, we play to have fun, if its no fun then why still play?
Eeda wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Please stop the moaning and whining. Yes entertainer is a bit up in the air right now but you seem to be forgetting one thing it is not soe or props. dances and songs that make swg entertainers....it is YOU the people, if you can't make one of the most enjoyable proffesions in game work for you then don't do it .
In the past few months we have had changes the devs have given us new props songs dances and effects to help us make our performances more interesting , then they gave us new buffs which made us more popular with crafters and what did the devs get in return whinge moan groan. Now we are getting yet more content and moans and groans again before you start complaining about it why don't you sign up for the beta and check it out if you still complain just don't buy it and leave us real ebtertainers to get on with it.
$30 which works out about £16 is not such a bad price to pay for and expansion concidering most expansions for other games cost £20 +.
Sorry this turned into a rant of sorts but I hate it when entertainers devalue themselves thinking they need game content to be entertainers.
Trust me, I'm aware it's the person and not the prop that makes one entertaining. I've said it many times, I'm just as entertaining as a Novice Entertainer on a server visit as I am a Grandmaster on Bria. I may look into the beta, but I don't have high hopes...call me jaded if you wish. It's still a bit much to pay for a single tune and a single dance. Also, we don't know anything of how the new stuff is acquired but experience has taught me to not get too excited without first checking it out. It's not often that an actual prodcut lives up to marketing hype. Now, I still have fun being what I am, but I want more. Please refrain from insinuating that myself or anyone else passionate enough to post here are not real entertainers.
keep your customers happy if you can't keep them all happy then aim for the majority ( which happens to be the combat players) especialy if your job depends on it there is no one on this earth that would put a bunch of total strangers above their job.
Eeda wrote:
lol I'm not getting excited about anything it's a game for godess sake ,but people are jumping on it before they have all the facts. Yes the combat players are getting more content, To be honnest a fail to see what content you can add to entertainer except new songs and dances etc. instead of complaining put that energy to good use and think of ways entertainers could have more of a presence in the next expansion because lets face it you know there will be one. and a word from a programmer the devs have my every sympathy writing a game of this magnitude is not as easy as most think it is, and trying to please everyone who plays it is even harder, and to be honnest the entertainers are not going to keep this game going it's the combat players sad I know but true so they are catered for first
keep your customers happy if you can't keep them all happy then aim for the majority ( which happens to be the combat players) especialy if your job depends on it there is no one on this earth that would put a bunch of total strangers above their job.
I'm not begrudging the fact that the combat folks are getting content. I'm happy they are and wish that everyone could get some additional content as freely. I know coding is a chore and that keeping everyone in the gamehappy is impossible as well. No, we're not going to keep SWG afloat all alone as entertainers. I also know that at the end of the day as an entertainer player, I don't matter to them in the great scheme of things. I understand all of this.
All I am saying is that as an entertainerplayer of SWG since a week after launch I've had my dreams for additional good stuff coming from the Devs sufficiently and repetitively dashed that I'm exceedingly skeptical of anything at this point. So, please, forgive my cynicism on the topic. I've seen many good ideas that have been placed on these very boards that never got acted upon. I'm about tapped out of hope at this point. I'll continue to play and enjoy it as long as I can, though.
I appreciate the devs efforts to make the game more non-combat focused, but if I still cannot do 95% of the content, it really isn't quite worth it for me.
Look forward to seeing what I'm missing though 
Esharra wrote:
Lol..I know exactly how it looks to the devs when they see threads like this and others that show absolutely no appreciation for what they have given us. Why should they even want to give us more?
Well, I'm sorry, it's just that $30 isn't chump change.
The Total Experience was $30. And it came with two expansions, one of them brand spankin' new.
It's not that I don't appreciate what they've done for us - it's that I don't find the pricing appropriate for what we're seeing so far from it.
Warryyr wrote:
Esharra wrote:
Lol..I know exactly how it looks to the devs when they see threads like this and others that show absolutely no appreciation for what they have given us. Why should they even want to give us more?
Well, I'm sorry, it's just that $30 isn't chump change.
The Total Experience was $30. And it came with two expansions, one of them brand spankin' new.
It's not that I don't appreciate what they've done for us - it's that I don't find the pricing appropriate for what we're seeing so far from it.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Warr..30 bucks is 30 bucks and I'm certainly not going to try to convince anyone they should buy the expansion. $30 is a lot to pay for such a small amount of entertainer content.
What I'm seeing though is a whole lot of complaining when they give us the very stuff we ask for. And I'm the one who has to say "Yeah..I know we asked to be included in an expansion (for buffs that couldn't be AFK'd, for a tie in with crafters instead of combatters), but Dancers have decided they don't like it (in this case, before it's even gone to beta)."
We want to be treated the same wayother professions are treated. From my perspective we are...in direct proportion to our percentage of the playerbase. Yet we continue to complain that we are mistreated.