Dancer Archive
Thread: Can't Buff Ourselves Dev Response
Panthu wrote:
Ha! /tsk
CEva'ngelene
When did you change the thread title? It looks like I did it, lol.
Edit: C was wrongly accused! /apologize Dejah
Message Edited by Panthu on 09-01-2005 03:25 PM
FaedraDelauney wrote:
You got the dancer or entertainer buff or just the general? I was unable to get the entertainer profession buff if I was dancing. I instead got the general even though yes the musician selected the correct buff and yes I was listening and stopped listening to only that musician. On a second try when I was not dancing it worked perfectly. Should I file a bug report then??
I got the dancer specific buff, I selected /listen while dancing, then they /inspire'd me. After 3 minutes or so I selected /stoplisten, the icon was the same but the hover text did say +15% not the 10%
I am not inspired by the propaganda machine to make us defend ourselves for our playstylesor to justify our own existance in the game that the devs gave us a free choice in whatever profession provided. If they dont want us entertainers anymore, just tell us, dont let us hang on false hope and at least i'll move on. I certainly know of another online game that i can dance in, explore, have fun, craft and socializeon a 30k+ population server with 3D graphics and a vibrant econony atleast half thecost per month than SWG. My choice to stay onis strictly for the community i love. But even they know one day all good things must pass.
Esharra wrote:
In response to the following statement by Bionic;
"TH said yesterday that he was going to try to find out the details for us and post when he got them. I PM'ed him today reminding him, and he read it, so we'll see what happens." in the Entertainer forum, Thunderheart replied:
Greetings,
Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians will not be able to buff themselves with Inspiration Buffs.
Here's why:
On the game side of things, basic Inspiration Buffs come early. The concern is that folks can take just a few basic skills to buff themselves and the Inspiration Buffs provided by dedicated Entertainers, Dancers and Musicians will not be in as much demand as they should be because other players will be able to do it themselves.
- Players are going to buff themselves anyways using alts/second slots/second accounts, the only players you are punishing are theplayers who only have one "dedicated" account, this is a blatant "Encouragement" to buy into a alt as all previous entertainer nerfs has already decimated the truely long term "entertainer" player numbers and redirectingour concerns back to us for the upteenth timeis not the answer we want.
While I understand that it certainly isn't as convenient as it would be to buff yourselves, other players will want that same convenience for themselves. They will buy a small amount of skills for the convenience and the demand for your Inspiration Buffs will drop.
- Players are already making it convenient for themselves by buying into alts which were buffbots, still are buffbots and always will be buffbots in one form or another whether private or public. You should also consider that the proposed inspiration buffs are at different levels: Master Entertainer, Master Dancer, Master Musician. All of which according to the development team is unique to each ofthe professions. A player will not spend the amount of skill points to reach a Master Dancer profession levelunless they are dedicated to that profession. So, give us the ability to buff ourselves at Master Level since you've pretty much took everything else away with little to compensate for.
Simply for the sake of discussion: conceptually, the idea of the buff is that your character is "inspired" by watching a fantastic entertainer perform for you. Inspiring yourself by entertaining, dancing or playing music is certainly possible, but it isn't typical.
- Sorry to burst your bubble, inspiration is formedfrom within initially and then performed for others. For Example, How did the Wright brothers develop their plane? Was it from watching a dancer? Was it listening to a musician? Maybe they did, but they had a dream which truely inspired them, the entertainers just gave them a boost/buff to make their dreams come true. Elvis Presley, The Beatles, The Stones, etc. all had the inspiration in them to write and perform their original songs; they were inspired by events in their lives which they wrote the songs about and passed those inspiration to others.
Esharra wrote:
Just playing Devil's Advocate here (so don't ask for my head on a platter); but, please respond with reasons why we should not have to participate in interdependency with those within our own profession?
Message Edited by Esharra on 09-01-2005 02:38 PM
No Weaponsmith need seek out another Weaponsmith in order to make a weapon they can use. For example, Weaponsmith A need not look for Weaponsmith B to make him a CDEF Pistol, because Weaponsmith A can use the weapon he creates for himself (his bonuses aren't limited only tobeing given away, they are also for him/her).
No Image Designer need seek out another Image Designer in order to be Image Designed. They can Image Design themselves.
No Chef need seek out another Chef in order to use food buffs (they can use the food they create themselves). If Chefs were modeled after the wayDancer and Musicianbuffs were designed, Chef A could create food, but wouldn't be able to use it himself or herself. They would need to look for Chef B, who would make food that Chef A could then eat and get bonuses/buffs from. This isn't even necessarily a good comparison to the Dancer/Musician faulty logic, because it would require another, seperate profession to Chef (let's say Bartender)that was sort of similar - so that they could trade food/drink with each other to actually use it (Dancer and Musician, though similar, are two seperate elite professions in Entertainer).
A Dancer needs to seek out a Musician in order to get a Dancer buff. (What do Musicians know about dancing, necessarily? It doesn't even hold up fiavor-wise)
A Musician needs to seek out a Dancer in order to get a Musician buff. (What do Dancers know about music, necessarily? It doesn't even hold up flavor-wise)
You folks could have at least required Dancer look for a Dancer for a Dancer buff, and Musicians look for a Musician for a Musician buff. That's still contrary to how every other buff/bonus profession works, but it would have made a tad bit more sense.
We already socialize amongst ourselves, we don't need to be FORCED to do so. If I'm in my private cantina and want to inspire myself, then I should be able to as I have since the CU went Live - not necessarily go find a Dancer to let me "play music better" or play different instruments. I shouldn't even need to find another Musician - when I play, I inspire myself. You Devs had it right for a bit, now you've screwed it up again.
It we want to give a real-life example (as Thunderheart posted in the Entertainer forums about self-inspiring not being typical for dancers or musicians), a dancer or musician would ALWAYS inspire themselves when performing, but their inspirational effect on their audience is far from certain.
However, in SWG, the audience is ALWAYS inspired, and the Dancer and Musician never inspires themselves. It doesn't make sense. Hell, I bet theprofessional dancers and musicians of the worldwould love to know SWG's secret of always ensuring the audience loves the music or dance piece.
If life were SWG, there would be no bands, no professional dancers, no dance really - as dance is nearly always a result of being inspired to move to a beat (and thus improvise spontaneously, creating new dances). Music would never change, as no musician would be inspired upon picking up an instrument to create a new song, or chord, or play something in a different measure, or do any creative development of material.
Hope that helps, Eshie.
If nothing else, it's as simple as this:
Pre-CU, no self-buff. And it was constantly asked for. Constantly. We stated our case time and time again that we wanted it.
Post-CU (pre profession-specific buffs) we could buff ourselves with Entertainer Inspiration buffs...the Devs listened...or did they?
Post-profession-specific buffs, no self-buffing. Back to where we started pre-CU - along with AFK concerns, this was a high priority issue people had with the Dancer and Musician professions.
I thought we were heard when they let us self-buff with Entertainer buffs. Apparently not. This buffing system is completely contrary to each and every other buff/bonus system in this game. Nobody else, and I mean nobody, is unable to apply a buff to themselves if they want to (and their profession allows them to). Chef, Medic, Doctor, Tailors with BE clothing - they can all apply bonuses/buffs to themselves.
We wanted self-buffing for a long time. We had it. The Devs just took it away.
I want it back.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 09-01-2005 05:47 PM
Message Edited by Warryyr on 09-01-2005 05:49 PM
GoGoGirl wrote:
As for interdependancy of professions, that's a lie to us and to those whodon't havethe money to spare to buy a alt. Just check the thread below and see what i mean.....
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=chef&message.id=62723
I fear that whatever system was in place pre-CU has just been reestablished with these new buffs.
What I mean is - pre-CU we were told the code couldn't handle self-buffing.
Then Entertainer Inspiration buffs allowed it post-CU.
Now, we're back to no self-buffing. But we know it's possible, at least it was before this last Publish!
There has to be a way to putitback in.
And I don't see why we need to fight to have them do it.
We fought over it for over a year pre-CU.
I am pretty grateful that someone with a red name is finally talking to us. It's about time. The next step is getting them to listen to us again - but perhaps they're mired in the ol' "You stop listening to Warryyr because it is too far away" bug. If needed, I am willing to fly to Austin. We can try it at 0m and see if it works - if not, I'll walk outside and come back in, and we can try it again 
Message Edited by Warryyr on 09-01-2005 05:58 PM
SlickRiptide wrote:
GoGoGirl wrote:As for interdependancy of professions, that's a lie to us and to those who don't have the money to spare to buy a alt. Just check the thread below and see what i mean.....
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=chef&message.id=62723
DIV>Basically, you can't control what someone might do with an alt
I have to agree with this, I don't even waste my time thinking what we can do to stop people buying alts...because it just isn't possible to ever stop. And to be honest, I don't want that original poster to come to the cantina any more than he wants to be there. I want to deal with nice people, not people who are so socially handicapped that they have to pay $15/mo to avoid saying the words "Please" and "Thank you."
This is why I think self buffing at master wouldn't be such a bad idea. At novice ent I could see it greatly undermining the viability of entertaining. But at a greater SP investment, it would very likely improve entertaining because it will give an option to some of those people who we don't want to see anyway.
I also don't have any illusions that the original poster in that thread logs his alt off when he goes to sleep. I would bet my lekku wrap that it sits there 24 hours a day passively buffbotting the basic inspiration.
Message Edited by Doriana on 09-02-2005 05:42 PM
PoetDancer wrote:But what can an entertainer really do intrinsically, in and of itself, without anybody around to give him or her some purpose?
Practice, write new routines, work on existing ones to make the timings better...
What real life entertainer does 100% of their dancing in front of an audience?
Then why don't I just take a real ballet class, instead? And practice real routines that are worth it?
Nobody does this game to "invent something to do" for themselves, when they are on. If I have togive a purposefor myself at 10AM, when the cantina is empty, why don't I just spend that time going to a real dance class at the studio instead?
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-01-2005 06:12 PM
PoetDancer wrote:
Then why don't I just take a real ballet class, instead? And practice real routines that are worth it?
Nobody does this game to "invent something to do" for themselves, when they are on. If I have togive a purposefor myself at 10AM, when the cantina is empty, why don't I just spend that time going to a real dance class at the studio instead?
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-01-2005 06:12 PM
i have only one thing to reply to this post..
you only get out of something exactly what you put in. so if you want to get a lot out of SWG then please be prepared toput a lot into it.
If you are not happy that now the Dancers can happily frequest cantina's without begging buff bots everywhere, maybe you should try being another profession?
But what am I--and you, for that matter--under this new system, but a begging buff bot?
The only difference is they were not at the keys, and we are.
So go ahead, dear. Dancing used to take skill. But now, the only routine that even matters to our clientele is "/inspire, and click on the menu." Because why work with commanding their attention, whenit is so much easier tojust command their ability to get a buff off of us, instead?
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-01-2005 07:06 PM
SlickRiptide wrote:
GoGoGirl wrote:
As for interdependancy of professions, that's a lie to us and to those whodon't havethe money to spare to buy a alt. Just check the thread below and see what i mean.....
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=chef&message.id=62723
Well, that thread is about people taking existing alts on existing second accounts and leveling them up (via respec, mostly) to be buffers. Truthfully, I don't see a problem with this. The players doing this are not parking their alt in a public cantina to AFK service the whole world. They're parking it in their workshop to give their own character a buff or maybe their guild members. Either way, someone's playing it at the keyboard to do it.
Basically, you can't control what someone might do with an alt, nor should you. The person's paying their money on that second account and they've got a right to have that second account be a personal or guild buffer if they want. As long as they aren't giving it away AFK, then they're not harming the profession as a whole, they're just making a decision to limit their audience to a subset of the greater world population. If they park the alt AFK in the cantina for some reason, it'll be annoying for the spam they'll create but otherwise it won't affect the business of the ATK players.
Now, if every artisan in the game opened a second account to have his personal buff-alt, then we'd have a problem. However, that problem would be with the other players of the game who chose to pay real money for convience as opposed to playing the game the way it was meant to be played. You can't hold the devs responsible for the decisions of the players.