Dancer Archive
Thread: Focus: Inspiration Buffs
Jagii
Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:20 pm
#40
First off, I agree that the idea sounds good.
Secondly, I agree that the current implementation idea won't cut it.
After thinking about it myself, I came up with my own idea for implementation. I'm not saying it's the best or even doable, but I just want to throw it in for consideration. Maybe it'll lead to something good. Let it be known that I dislike pop-ups and favor passive mechanics. The following idea is a compromise between the active/passive and pop-up/no-pop-up mechanics for ensuring that entertainers are paid for buffing.
1.) You are a musician. You set your buff price to a flat fee of 2000 credits.
2.) You /start a song in the Mos Eisley cantina.
3.) Joe Blow /listens to you.
4.) Joe will recieve a system message when he is elibigle for a full buff.
5.) Joe can /beinspired at any time.
6.) When he chooses to /beinspired, a window pops up for him. It states your price and asks if he still wants to /beinspired.
7a.) If Joe selects "no," then he is not buffed.
7b.) If Joe selects "yes," then 2,000 credits are deducted from his inventory and/or bank account. He is buffed for however much he was eligible for when he decided to /beinspired.
8.) The money goes to a temporary bank account in your name that exists for 1 hour. When money goes into this temp. account, you receive a GREEN system message stating the current balance in your account and that the timer has been reset to 1 hour. You will be notified via green system messages when the timer has gone down to 10, 5, and 1 minute.
9a.) If you do not cash the money in your temporary account before the timer runs out, the money is lost. (Blame Wuher.) If you attempt to leave the cantina or use the /logoff command, you will recieve a green system message stating that there is money in your temp. account.
9b.) You may transfer the money in your temp. account to your real bank account any time before the timer expires. Activate the radial menu on the cantina terminal, select "cash tips," and enter the security code.
That's the best I could do so far. All the details in the steps are quite deliberate (except naming the command /beinspired) so if you need further explanation, I'll be glad to give it. The biggest problem I see with this system is the temporary bank accounts; I don't know if they are feasible.
Anyway, have at it.
= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek
Secondly, I agree that the current implementation idea won't cut it.
After thinking about it myself, I came up with my own idea for implementation. I'm not saying it's the best or even doable, but I just want to throw it in for consideration. Maybe it'll lead to something good. Let it be known that I dislike pop-ups and favor passive mechanics. The following idea is a compromise between the active/passive and pop-up/no-pop-up mechanics for ensuring that entertainers are paid for buffing.
1.) You are a musician. You set your buff price to a flat fee of 2000 credits.
2.) You /start a song in the Mos Eisley cantina.
3.) Joe Blow /listens to you.
4.) Joe will recieve a system message when he is elibigle for a full buff.
5.) Joe can /beinspired at any time.
6.) When he chooses to /beinspired, a window pops up for him. It states your price and asks if he still wants to /beinspired.
7a.) If Joe selects "no," then he is not buffed.
7b.) If Joe selects "yes," then 2,000 credits are deducted from his inventory and/or bank account. He is buffed for however much he was eligible for when he decided to /beinspired.
8.) The money goes to a temporary bank account in your name that exists for 1 hour. When money goes into this temp. account, you receive a GREEN system message stating the current balance in your account and that the timer has been reset to 1 hour. You will be notified via green system messages when the timer has gone down to 10, 5, and 1 minute.
9a.) If you do not cash the money in your temporary account before the timer runs out, the money is lost. (Blame Wuher.) If you attempt to leave the cantina or use the /logoff command, you will recieve a green system message stating that there is money in your temp. account.
9b.) You may transfer the money in your temp. account to your real bank account any time before the timer expires. Activate the radial menu on the cantina terminal, select "cash tips," and enter the security code.
That's the best I could do so far. All the details in the steps are quite deliberate (except naming the command /beinspired) so if you need further explanation, I'll be glad to give it. The biggest problem I see with this system is the temporary bank accounts; I don't know if they are feasible.
Anyway, have at it.
= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek
Message Edited by Jagii on 04-05-2005 06:22 PM
Ikewe
Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:02 pm
#41
A musician friend of mine from Shadowfire, Tanoo, proposed this idea for implementing the inspiration buffs. I don't know if this even remotely possible from a coding standpoint - for all I know it's resource intensive and so wouldn't be a viable option but it struck me as instriguing so I post it here to see what others, who might be in a better position to know the coding effort required, think:
First of all, GREAT idea for the buffs. I love it. However, the implentation MUST be changed.
1. Remove group passive buffing. (Wait for it! Read on to see why!)
2. Keep the /setp command, but no longer make it macroable.
3. When a player comes in to the cantina and asks for a buff, the entertainer targets the player and types/setp.
4. This then adds the player to a separate 'buff group' for that musician.There should be no limit to the number of people the entertainer can add to this 'buff group'. The buff group is basically like a private chat channel that only the entertainer can add people to. It could display a separate little window listing all the people currently in this buff group.
5. Once the buff is complete to the maximum time, the players name turns green in the window, and the entertainer informs the player it has complete, and clicks 'remove' to remove them from the buff group.
The 'Buff group' should be a separate 'virtual' group to the normal entertainer band groups. This allows individuals in the entertainer group to buff whole groups of people, without leaving the band group and the ability to play with lots of instruments, and therfore sound better.
The /setp command allows the entertainer to agree a fee before issuing it to the player if necessary. Perhaps the /setp command could be modifed to allow the entertainer to issue a /setp 5000 which would prompt the player 'A charge of 5000 credits is required for this buff. Do you agree?'. The player could then accept and the money is transferred to the entertainer, and the player added to the buff group. The amount could be an optional parameter which could be set andremembered so that all future /setp issued will have a charge of 5000cr.
It also prevents AFK play as it requires the entertainer to issue a non-macroable /setp command to invite them to the buff group. The higher the entertainer, the longer the buff should last. I have no qualms with a novice ent buffing for 30 mins, but a master should give a far superior buff of say 3hrs.
Overall, a system such as this would be far more preferable to the entertainers as it encourages our profession while giving us the means to keep earning credits.
In addition, I have seen a call for a differentiation between the buff a dancer provides and the buff a musician provides. Now I understand where that desire comes from but my concern is that, dependng upon the type of enhancements being provided, making a distinction between who supplies them may end up eliminating our ability to provide a service to an entire profession. (e.g only dancers can buff crafters). It also means that on smaller servers like Shadowfire where there aren't as many musicians, we'll run into the same problem of people complaining they can't find an entertainer and the subsequentgrowth of the "alt bot" market. I'd much rather see us able to enhance the very same things but grant a duration bonus for a dancer and musician who are grouped together to provide the buff and a bonus for those who are double and triple entertainer prof masters. (note that until the ID prof gets a unique service to replace the loss of stat migration I think we need to include them in this enhancement buff idea)
Anoewyn
Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:38 pm
#42
The one thing I'm not too sure of in this proposal is the +25 tapes and their ability to cut down on time. I like that a novice can give the buff to increase their availability, but on another level I would prefer that there be some kind of bonus at master level to distinguish us. Especially given that those skill tapes are practically out of reach for many entertainers (sure, I have a spare few millions just lying around... **snorts**), or they have been swallowed up by the AFK horde.
Under this system, dancing for 1minute= a 30min buff regardless of level (novice or master). That meansit will take 6minutes to give someone the maximum buff. Currently, buffing takes around 3mins. As a Master, I beleive that my skills at dancing naturally surpass that of someone still in training - if we can not give a greater buff than the 10% (which I'm not saying we should), then shouldn't we be able to inspire people into being "awestruck" just that little bit faster? I'm sorry, but as a Master I can't help but feel I'm going to be penalized in relation to the "buffing time factor" unless I can scrape together a few million for skilltapes, because as a Master I will not have something thatis an improved version of theservices I provide over those who are less skilled than me.
Bottom line - what is going to inspire people to want to take their dancers to a full mastery if they can get exactly what they want at Novice level. What is the difference between a novice and a master that makes it worth the skillpoints to be a master. So far, I don't see anything that entices people to go beyond novice.
Also, a side note: What is going to happen with the chef foods that help decrease buffing time? Any ideas?
Message Edited by Anoewyn on 04-05-2005 11:45 PM
Loranna
Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:34 am
#43
I think having more kinds of buffs will be our saving grace when the CU hits, I really hope to see more of this kind of idea 
DarkY0da
Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:46 am
#44
Most certainly more kinds of buffs would be great. But as far as buffs go there is Spice and I'm not sure but I think different kinds of spice would be interesting for smugglers(different types of buffs), Chefs and any new content in food form would likely be some sort of buff.
But I was sort of thinking that if our "base" buff was the 3 already listed with a 15% to them. And any new buffs could be added to the musician and dance trees that would have to be chosen some how either through playing a certain song/dance or even just having to use a radial to pick.(I would want to limit those kind of "targeted" buffs to one per person. So they could come in get the 3 at +15% and then a 4th buff to what ever at maybe a 20% or if it's like defense mods or something at like +10 ect.)
But I was sort of thinking that if our "base" buff was the 3 already listed with a 15% to them. And any new buffs could be added to the musician and dance trees that would have to be chosen some how either through playing a certain song/dance or even just having to use a radial to pick.(I would want to limit those kind of "targeted" buffs to one per person. So they could come in get the 3 at +15% and then a 4th buff to what ever at maybe a 20% or if it's like defense mods or something at like +10 ect.)
Isleh
Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:55 pm
#45
Long ago in this forum,a suggestion was made to use the JTL invite system for multi-passenger ships for buffs.
What about camps? What about short term ( 20%) inspirational buffs that can be applied in camps by Musicians and Dancers and a long term (10%) that can be applied in the cantina?
Makes Ranger and Scout camps desirableand youcan't AFK macro that.
Isleh
Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:14 pm
#46
DarkY0da wrote:
Most certainly more kinds of buffs would be great. But as far as buffs go there is Spice and I'm not sure but I think different kinds of spice would be interesting for smugglers(different types of buffs), Chefs and any new content in food form would likely be some sort of buff.
But I was sort of thinking that if our "base" buff was the 3 already listed with a 15% to them. And any new buffs could be added to the musician and dance trees that would have to be chosen some how either through playing a certain song/dance or even just having to use a radial to pick.(I would want to limit those kind of "targeted" buffs to one per person. So they could come in get the 3 at +15% and then a 4th buff to what ever at maybe a 20% or if it's like defense mods or something at like +10 ect.)
Duplication of buffs in other professions have been done before.
The problem is/was that spice did not last as long, did not give higher results than the ones listed and the downer.
Booster Blue -- Action +400, Quickness +400 -- 10m
Crash n' Burn -- Action -200, Quickness -200, Mind +400, Focus +200 -- 10m
Giggledust -- Action +300, Quickness +300, Focus -100 -- 10m
Grey Gabaki -- Focus +500 -- 8m 20s
Gunjack -- Strength +500, Quickness -200, Focus -100 -- 10m
Muon Gold -- Mind +500, Focus +500, Willpower +500 -- 10m
Neutron Pixie -- Health +1000, Str +200, Const +200, Action +500, Quick +50, Stamina +50 -- 13m 20s
Pyrepenol -- Strength +300, Quickness -100, Focus -50 -- 10m
Scramjet -- Strength +300 -- 11m 40s
Sedative H4b -- Health +400, Constitution +300, Mind -100, Focus -100 -- 10m
Shadowpaw -- Strength -100, Action +250, Quickness +250 -- 10m
Sweetblossom -- Health +100, Constitution +600, Action -100, Quickness -100, Focus -200 -- 10m
Thruster Head -- Mind +600, Focus +200 -- 6m 40s
Yarrock -- Mind +200, Focus +100, Willpower +100 -- 10m
Zypolene Droid Lubricant -- Health +250, Strength +250, Constitution +250 -- 10m
Alot of chef buffs are inspirational buffs - http://www.swgcraft.com/chefbuffs.php
So, unless both have the same effect, one will not be used.
Message Edited by Isleh on 04-06-2005 05:25 PM
ChiiTWINS
Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:10 am
#47
Jagii wrote:
First off, I agree that the idea sounds good.
Secondly, I agree that the current implementation idea won't cut it.
After thinking about it myself, I came up with my own idea for implementation. I'm not saying it's the best or even doable, but I just want to throw it in for consideration. Maybe it'll lead to something good. Let it be known that I dislike pop-ups and favor passive mechanics. The following idea is a compromise between the active/passive and pop-up/no-pop-up mechanics for ensuring that entertainers are paid for buffing.
1.) You are a musician. You set your buff price to a flat fee of 2000 credits.
2.) You /start a song in the Mos Eisley cantina.
3.) Joe Blow /listens to you.
4.) Joe will recieve a system message when he is elibigle for a full buff.
5.) Joe can /beinspired at any time.
6.) When he chooses to /beinspired, a window pops up for him. It states your price and asks if he still wants to /beinspired.
7a.) If Joe selects "no," then he is not buffed.
7b.) If Joe selects "yes," then 2,000 credits are deducted from his inventory and/or bank account. He is buffed for however much he was eligible for when he decided to /beinspired.
8.) The money goes to a temporary bank account in your name that exists for 1 hour. When money goes into this temp. account, you receive a GREEN system message stating the current balance in your account and that the timer has been reset to 1 hour. You will be notified via green system messages when the timer has gone down to 10, 5, and 1 minute.
9a.) If you do not cash the money in your temporary account before the timer runs out, the money is lost. (Blame Wuher.) If you attempt to leave the cantina or use the /logoff command, you will recieve a green system message stating that there is money in your temp. account.
9b.) You may transfer the money in your temp. account to your real bank account any time before the timer expires. Activate the radial menu on the cantina terminal, select "cash tips," and enter the security code.
That's the best I could do so far. All the details in the steps are quite deliberate (except naming the command /beinspired) so if you need further explanation, I'll be glad to give it. The biggest problem I see with this system is the temporary bank accounts; I don't know if they are feasible.
Anyway, have at it.
= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek
Message Edited by Jagii on 04-05-2005 06:22 PM
So far, THIS is the system I think I will pull for.
I don't mind the idea of a pop up. But it's obvious that a lot of people do, and I don't not-mind it enough to push for it. But I will -not- back down from a desire to control WHO I BUFF.
Right now, I can at least pretend I have some control over who I heal. If someone annoys me, I can /deny them, and pretend I don't know it will go away tomorrow. I can choose to dance somewhere else. With this new system, I have no choice. I dance, and be used as a buff-sponge, or I do not dance, thereby negating nearly two years of work I have put into learning my job. That isn't acceptable.
With this sytem, I don't have a popup. I can at least make a cursory attempt at getting paid for my services (even if I only put 100 credits into the darn box) if I want to. I like the temp account. Maybe it would be similar to when you loot a cred chip in space?
The only thing this system is missing is my biggest issue with this. We need a static, permament, VISABLE /denyservice list. I need to be able to manage that list like I manage my ignore list. That deny list needs to prevent people from even being eligible to be inspired. If they try to get a buff from me, they need to just know right away, "No. This person won't offer you any services."
In short, this is an AWESOME suggestion. PLEASE!!! Someone make note of this guy's idea! 
Add a permanent /denyservice to this, and I think you'd have an amazing system in place!! Address the question of why the heck novice ent can do my job as well as I can, and I think I'd probably die of shock and joy!
Seakla
Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:25 am
#48
I like this idea too.
I'm all for getting rid of the buffbots, and personally, I don't mind clicking a popup box, seeing as I'm ATK 98% of the time anyway. Or at least I try to be.
However, like ChiiTWINS said, it's obvious that a lot of people find the idea of a popup box invasive and RP unfriendly.
And this system is unmacroable... no more bots! /confetti!
Just one question, this 'cantina terminal', this is used to set the price in step 1?
/thumbsup Jagii
I'm all for getting rid of the buffbots, and personally, I don't mind clicking a popup box, seeing as I'm ATK 98% of the time anyway. Or at least I try to be.
However, like ChiiTWINS said, it's obvious that a lot of people find the idea of a popup box invasive and RP unfriendly.
And this system is unmacroable... no more bots! /confetti!
Just one question, this 'cantina terminal', this is used to set the price in step 1?
/thumbsup Jagii
kirah_ashlin
Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:39 am
#50
This is one of the best ideas I've seen yet. I don't know how viable it is code wise, though If it is too code heavy or requires more code revamp the devs might not go for it. Or the suits might not. As has been stated before, we aren't the money making profession for SWG. There are too few of us to be considered veryimportant, apparently.
Too bad the reason for that is because of all the previous game breaking issues that have driven players away from the entertainer professions.
Anyway, yes - this looks like it's doable. Of course, that does mean those of us who don't like to set an amount will have to get used to the idea . . . 
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 04-07-2005 07:40 AM
Isleh
Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:38 am
#51
Jagii wrote:
First off, I agree that the idea sounds good.
Secondly, I agree that the current implementation idea won't cut it.
After thinking about it myself, I came up with my own idea for implementation. I'm not saying it's the best or even doable, but I just want to throw it in for consideration. Maybe it'll lead to something good. Let it be known that I dislike pop-ups and favor passive mechanics. The following idea is a compromise between the active/passive and pop-up/no-pop-up mechanics for ensuring that entertainers are paid for buffing.
1.) You are a musician. You set your buff price to a flat fee of 2000 credits.
2.) You /start a song in the Mos Eisley cantina.
3.) Joe Blow /listens to you.
4.) Joe will recieve a system message when he is elibigle for a full buff.
5.) Joe can /beinspired at any time.
6.) When he chooses to /beinspired, a window pops up for him. It states your price and asks if he still wants to /beinspired.
7a.) If Joe selects "no," then he is not buffed.
7b.) If Joe selects "yes," then 2,000 credits are deducted from his inventory and/or bank account. He is buffed for however much he was eligible for when he decided to /beinspired.
8.) The money goes to a temporary bank account in your name that exists for 1 hour. When money goes into this temp. account, you receive a GREEN system message stating the current balance in your account and that the timer has been reset to 1 hour. You will be notified via green system messages when the timer has gone down to 10, 5, and 1 minute.
9a.) If you do not cash the money in your temporary account before the timer runs out, the money is lost. (Blame Wuher.) If you attempt to leave the cantina or use the /logoff command, you will recieve a green system message stating that there is money in your temp. account.
9b.) You may transfer the money in your temp. account to your real bank account any time before the timer expires. Activate the radial menu on the cantina terminal, select "cash tips," and enter the security code.
That's the best I could do so far. All the details in the steps are quite deliberate (except naming the command /beinspired) so if you need further explanation, I'll be glad to give it. The biggest problem I see with this system is the temporary bank accounts; I don't know if they are feasible.
Anyway, have at it.
= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek
Message Edited by Jagii on 04-05-2005 06:22 PM
Like it
I don't see a problem with temp bank accounts. We already have them because credits can be held in escrow when you tip someone offline. That can be used as a base to set up a second escrow account for this
Message Edited by Isleh on 04-07-2005 08:39 AM
Etdentarie
Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:15 am
#52
I think that's a great idea. I would totally get behind this.