Dancer Archive

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Rabenschwinge wrote:

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Ylis wrote:

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Rabenschwinge wrote:

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Oblox wrote:

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Rabenschwinge wrote:
Combat levels are overestimated. Especially when it comes to PvP. And it is not a reward, it is a measure to consider the overall combat strength of anything that has a combat level. Don't let a number tell you who you are - or how powerful you are. There are lots of aspects to a character that are not considered in combat level.

If you for example know very well how to use food drink and spice very well, you can get advantages way beyond the difference worth thirty or forty combat levels.

Message Edited by Rabenschwinge on 09-01-2005 02:00 PM

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Sorry thats pretty much rubbish. lvl 55 has 1000 less health so 1 vs 1 your dead, in group PVP you could be a rear guard fighter or healer but otherwise youll be killed alot quicker. In PVE level 54/55 characters are mincemeat unless part of a group, they cant tank, they get agroed by a level 80 they will often die alot faster unless they have decent healing.

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Here is one example of food one could use at once if you watch out (it is close, you gotta watch out for low filling - and it is from ememory, I don't have the stats I actually use in mind):
Drink:
Vasarian Brandy, Melee accuracy ~100, filling ~50
Accarragm, Health regen and Action regen ~200, Mind Regen ~50, filling ~40

Food:
Piketta Pie, dodge ~30, filling ~25
Syntsteak, damage mitigation ~ 20, filling ~40
Vegeparsine, Melee Defence ~ 60, filling ~45

Spice:
Neutron Pixie, health, health regen, action regen +20%, mind regen -10%

This is a relatively general set up. If you know what you're up against I wouldn't use it.

Figure yourself what difference that makes.
BTW: I tank better than at least most level 70 charcters with my level 59 character, alone because I use a relatively good armor (6530 kinetic & energy resistance). (PS: Well, center of being and sword flurry might have something to do with it, too)

Message Edited by Rabenschwinge on 09-01-2005 03:44 PM

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That is virtually the set up I use, but booster blue more as a spice genrally, and I am sorry to say there is no way I can as a level 60 Dancer /Pikewoman with some TK beat a level 80 rifleman.

Not trying to go off topic, but just trying to point out the cons of being a dancer /combatant post CU.

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Well, that doesn't suprise me because Pikes is crowd control and TK is (would be) tank. I am master fencer/swordsman 0022. I deal considerably more damage with my puped (though not yet sliced, shame on me) blade and can suffer more damage than one with this template.
TK generally stacks horribly, because all bonuses are half unarmed and half general. Swordsman has the advantage that bonuses from the last two branches are all general. If you want just a little additional defence, swordsman is the way to go. TK is only good if you don't wanna effort an armor or that is your only combat prof imho.
The most "powerful" template in one-on-one combat is probably swordsman with a little fencer pikes. But then again... one on one combat isn't everything. Squad leader for example is a horrible choice in one on combat, but a squad leader makes a whole lot more difference in a full group than any other level 80 player could.

PS: Of course a double master is better. What I am saying is that I could defeat a level 80 rifleman, if he does only use medium equipment and relatively low set of food. Especially if he is in recon armor.

Message Edited by Rabenschwinge on 09-01-2005 07:08 PM

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hehe well i don't know how it is on your server, but i dont run into very many solo overt rifleman with mediocre gear

#1 your health is automatically less.

#2 those foods you list are great, but guess what ... everyone else is using them too. which means you are at exactly the same disadvantage you were at to begin with. you will almost always be inferior to a lvl 80 even if they are using only a moderate amount of food.

#3 there is NO WAY that you can go out as a level 54 or a 60 and enjoy pve the same way a lvl 80 does. a) you will be aggroed by more things and in a farther radius b) again less hitpoints

#4 now im not positive about this one point, but i have heard and form my own experience felt it may be correct, that you also get less inherent defensive and offensive bonuses that are not actually seen in your mods screen, but are factored merely by your number in relation to the number of the mob you are fihgting. there is no food or spice that will help you with that, im sorry.

I completely agree with this. Something a lot of us have been saying since they took most our functionality away. It would let us actually participate in the game more and keep the profession we love and get some more faces in or back. After the changes in CU we lost a lot of entertainers (most that loved the profession but couldn't afford to limit themselves elsewhere) this would bring them back.

I have several dancers on different serversall besides 2 master dancers. I've mastered dancer many times even on characters I couldn't keep them a dancer. I don't play them practicly at all because thats all I can do with them is dance and it can't stay interesting, or they get killed just leaving a city because of their CL. I went to those servers with friends that eventualy quit. But my main character ( my first character ever) that I've always played, that has been a dancer for the 2 years I've playedthe game, that I mastered all ATK for months spent all my time on, payed I don't even know how much to play the game during the years. The character I have taken the MOST pride in. That for a year had NO combat skills whatsoever. Theone that should be a dancer because of her background and roleplay still, shecould not stay a dancer after the CU because of the changes and she has to be combat able for others that count on her to help in combat grouping and fun hunts. Friends guildmembers and people I was involved in roleplay with. Before the CU I was able to make the hybrid work. You can't anymore effectively especialy with certain combat professions. And I haveNEVER been aPVPer a combat stacker or a flavor of the month player. I don't play any profession because it's the most effective, most popularor you can do the best in PVP. Roleplay and my responsibilities to those that I play with have always decided my characters direction. I love dancing, that character should be a dancer. But some things became more importent then what I enjoyed most when that hurt my character. I picked it up with an alt on the same server but it is not nearly the same and I can't stay on that character for long because she gets killed traveling, can't do anything else and there isn't enough interaction for just dancing.

Currently we cost as much SP as an elite combat profession and get nothing for it besides enjoying dancing. But with limited interaction going around that can't keep us interested. We all know cantinas can get slow and boring if there isn't a lot going on. Entertainer is a social tool. They are not real professions anymore and with how combat focused the game is the devs are and how largely ignored Ents have been since the begining of the game we may never be. We still have problems we had when the game came out. I absolutly love dancer. There is nothing I love more. But it's no longer worth how hardsome of uswork for it and the cost in our skill points. We don't get any benefits and it limits us.

Message Edited by thraciawalt on 09-02-2005 10:03 AM

Message Edited by thraciawalt on 09-02-2005 10:09 AM

Message Edited by thraciawalt on 09-02-2005 10:28 AM

OK this thread is getting somewhat hijacked...the idea was to put some life back into the very dead cantinas and put some socialization into the game.

People interested in social interaction with others come to cantina, regardless if they have dance skills or not.
People who are not interested will never come to cantinas, whatever the SP costs of entertainer skills.

If one would like to come to a cantina for social interaction but doesn't because one hasn't dancing skills, the issue is not the system.

It costs 0 SP to talk to someone.

Chali
Quiet Master Dancer on Starsider...whoneeds to pay Skill Points to come to a cantina ?

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LyteFoot wrote:
First pilot is not zero skill point(how many skill points did you spend on pilot?), it takes a TON of experience(not necessarily, however, it takes a ton of experience to earn Ace, both numerically and physical), it is just a different tree. Now I'm not oppossed to making combat and non-combat different skill trees. Removing SP from the entertainer trees will leave it just like politician, never touched by a dev hand again.

Be realistic, it won't fill the cantinas again. If it does fill them it will be a short burst as a ton of people AFK level their dancer or musician during the hours they aren't fighting. Then a short burst as they try out the new skills at a party. As soon as they've done it a couple of times their curiosity will be satisfied and you won't see them again.

There is one and only one way to fill the cantinas and that is to make us required. The down side of that is the animosity it brings. They haven't figured out how to keep that from occurring. They either need to provide functions that get us out of the cantina and into the field or they need to make our game a separate game like space is.

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Making entertainer 0sp is both a good and bad idea.

First the good: gives everyone a chance to experience both worlds without sacrificing what they love to do. Would bring those entertainers that have been stuck in cantinas for so long outside to see what the rest of the galaxy is like. Yes, there are those that have done entertainer since launch and won't give it up for anything. You can't buff yourself so there is no hinderance in that regard. Since there is no battle fatigue, entertainers are no longer healers, thus serve only a couple purposes: buff and entertain. This would give them the oppurtunity to get more involved with the GCW instead of being a sideline observer. Would kill half the argument against CL and non-combat.

Now the bad: would build resentment amongst some of those that had worked to mastering the professions prior to a change to 0sp who felt their sacrifice was in vain. Mass AFK grinding would return once again. Main port cantinas would be lag pits again. It lowers the value of the profession.

I can't really think of too many bad things that could happen, but some are pretty bad. About those veteran entertainers feeling cheated, even if they made it 0sp, any CL80 person is going to have to earn the xp to get to master anyway. I'm damn sure those same CL80 people are not going to feel cheated because entertainers would be able to pick up combat professions. I think they would welcome more combatants.

Let's also not forget that they've pretty much taken all functionality that entertainers had prior to the CU and threw it away. Entertaining is pretty close to a mere hobby now anyway. I love being an entertainer, but what is our purpose? What do we do that is beneficial to the GCW? What we used to do is now almost completely gone. I've seen all sides of this game, I've done artisan, I've gone through combat both PvE and PvP, and I was a master dancer for over a year. Compare entertainers from before to now and you'll see that we are virtually useless.

Message Edited by captainme on 09-10-2005 02:59 PM

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Metricula wrote:

Do all the zero-skill point requsets also apply to ID? If so, there goes my main profession and expect to see even more neon Twi's and men with blue hair.

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Sorry, even ID serves a very insignificant role in this game. Other than the ability to make someone's looks unique, there's not much in the way of reward for your effort. ID's were reduced to sitting in a tent waiting for people to want a stat migration, now there's no stats to migrate and the tents are empty once again. We have to face the fact that a social profession has no place in a combat oriented system. The CU has taken everything away from entertainers that made us unique. We are now just a bunch of flashing lights, crazy music, and flailing arms.

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captainme wrote:

Sorry, even ID serves a very insignificant role in this game. Other than the ability to make someone's looks unique, there's not much in the way of reward for your effort. ID's were reduced to sitting in a tent waiting for people to want a stat migration, now there's no stats to migrate and the tents are empty once again. We have to face the fact that a social profession has no place in a combat oriented system. The CU has taken everything away from entertainers that made us unique. We are now just a bunch of flashing lights, crazy music, and flailing arms.

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What? Ok, IDs weren't "reduced to sitting in a tent" - that was an addition! All they ever did in the first place was change looks. For that matter, all Dancers ever did was flail arms and flash lights - the buffing and ent healing was never "the point" - if it had been, they would have given us the improvements we asked for.

We do have those improvements now with the new buffs (except for the lack of self buffing and the one passive buff), so these might be given a little more credence. I doubt it though since our corrs seem to have been totally ignored or just flat out told no just like they were for all requests for the old EH elements.

Fluff is the point. Always has been. This isn't a CU nerf. Goodness, it's not like we were benefiting from the bots "usefulness." Silly called it the party, Esh calls it the Rice Krispy Treat effect, whatever you call it though - that's the point and always has been with the Ent profs - not our place in a combat oriented game.

I think the limitation on Entertaining if you have Combat/Crafting or on Combat/Crafting if you have Entertaining is stupid and a useless mechanic that serves no point and adds no fun for anyone, so I do support changing Ent SP investment so that it doesn't effect those other areas of investment - but there's no way in heck I believe we need to stop thinking we can have a Social profession in this game.

I don't think you are getting what this is all about - whether Ent costs 0 SP or all of your SP, it will always be about allowing Social players to function better in this game in a Social capacity - that's why I so strongly feel like what else they do shouldn't matter - not because I think the other things they might do if they could would be more important.

Jeez, this is still what we enjoy most - none of the rest is as important. It just doesn't necessarily have to be something we are gated from just so we can do what we like best. It's just a stupid set up. The prof concept is fine though and always has been.

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Panthu wrote:

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captainme wrote:

Sorry, even ID serves a very insignificant role in this game. Other than the ability to make someone's looks unique, there's not much in the way of reward for your effort. ID's were reduced to sitting in a tent waiting for people to want a stat migration, now there's no stats to migrate and the tents are empty once again. We have to face the fact that a social profession has no place in a combat oriented system. The CU has taken everything away from entertainers that made us unique. We are now just a bunch of flashing lights, crazy music, and flailing arms.

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What? Ok, IDs weren't "reduced to sitting in a tent" - that was an addition! All they ever did in the first place was change looks. (This was the perception by most IDs. Do you forget stat migration? Where was the only place you could do that? Do you also forget that when they added the tents they made penalties for not being in them? Remember that thedelaywas doubled on any ID session outside of the tent. So saying that the "salon" was an addition is just ignorance. It was a symbol of segregation.)For that matter, all Dancers ever did was flail arms and flash lights - the buffing and ent healing was never "the point" - if it had been, they would have given us the improvements we asked for.(Healing the mind and battle fatigue had a very significant role and had always been the idea behind entertainers. Do you forget that they called medics, entertainers, and crafterssupport professions. What are they supporting? Definitely not a social structure. They have always focused on combat. They slowly took away the importance of entertainers so that they are no longer support to any profession. Musicians and Dancers had a role, but not anymore. IDs were also raped of their support functionality. You can function in this game with having to see an ID for appearence changes or the new entertainer buffs. Entertainers had a very key role prior to the new system and now.... well, they're completely fluff.)

We do have those improvements now with the new buffs (except for the lack of self buffing and the one passive buff), so these might be given a little more credence. I doubt it though since our corrs seem to have been totally ignored or just flat out told no just like they were for all requests for the old EH elements.

Fluff is the point. Always has been. This isn't a CU nerf. Goodness, it's not like we were benefiting from the bots "usefulness." (Don't get me started on bots, I know how our cries were ignored about them. They were the main reason I stopped beingan entertainer after so long.)Silly called it the party, Esh calls it the Rice Krispy Treat effect, whatever you call it though - that's the point and always has been with the Ent profs - not our place in a combat oriented game(As much as I hate to say it, it's true. It's sad, but it's true).

I think the limitation on Entertaining if you have Combat/Crafting or on Combat/Crafting if you have Entertaining is stupid and a useless mechanic that serves no point and adds no fun for anyone, so I do support changing Ent SP investment so that it doesn't effect those other areas of investment - but there's no way in heck I believe we need to stop thinking we can have a Social profession in this game.(Theyonly claimedit was a social profession to ease the tension. Entertainer was never really a social profession, it was a support profession. However, that's been taken away)

I don't think you are getting what this is all about(Unless there is some higher purpose other than to allow usentertainers to enjoy the game againin a different way. That we have stopped fightingthe fact that we don't matter to the majority and they don't need us. That we areletting go ofour frustrations because it's useless to try to gain acceptance without purpose. That we have been passed over too many times and have just given in to the fact that our profession will always be overlooked. And now we've come to a solution that will bring life back into our professions. Then I guess Iam not getting what this is all about.)- whether Ent costs 0 SP or all of your SP, it will always be about allowing Social players to function better in this game in a Social capacity - that's why I so strongly feel like what else they do shouldn't matter - not because I think the other things they might do if they could would be more important.

Jeez, this is still what we enjoy most - none of the rest is as important. It just doesn't necessarily have to be something we are gated from just so we can do what we like best. It's just a stupid set up. The prof concept is fine though and always has been.

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I guess I should have said "The CU andall publishes that followedhave taken everything away from entertainers that made us important." We are still unique but without purpose. I enjoy being an entertainer, hence the reason I am back at it, and if they can change it to where it costs no skill points, I'm all for it. I have seen the other side and enjoyed it as well, but my passion is in entertainment. I don't want to be barred from the things that make this game what it is and give up what I love to do anymore.

Message Edited by captainme on 09-11-2005 02:59 AM