Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
Esharra wrote:We need to get together for a brain storming.
Xyrdre wrote:
Panthu wrote:*cough*... um, was that my out loud voice?utter frustration for far too long
(weird thing where I like to see zeros all the way down the forum..yeah I do this too)
been kicking around in my head now for some months
Yeah, I do the whole 'must read every post' thing in the dancer/ent/musician forums as well. Iiiiiinput!
But keep the brainstormed ideas coming
. I'm always amazed with the ideas people come up with.. lots of creativity out there.
Naish wrote:
1. I don't want to. I'm not selling anything. I would rather help support the existing merchants by advertising their services.
2. I got tired of always tying to find a mind buff when I wanted/needed one, so I made a bot for myself. Now I don't have to run around for an hour trying to find a mind buff.
3. Other players had the same problem so I looped my buffing macro and let it run for them.
Look, it's obvious that bots are causing you guys headaches. And maybe, the easy solution is to kill looping macros and in turn kill bots. But I don't think that should happen until there is an alternative way for entertainers to provide a dependable service. I think the idea of holodiscs is pretty clever and at that point I probably would become a merchant.
Killing looping macros addresses the symptom, not the real issue.
1) Yes, you are selling something--you're selling a service to enhance minds. Merchants can sell services, like renting out their vendors. They can also offer a buy/sell program on loot, so they dont' have to be tied to crafters.
2) Yes, you've said many times already that your bot serves your needs for mind buffs. I know merchant's don't currently have a service or product to fit the bill, but they could be given one. No need to claim you have a "playstyle" that can only be served by AFK play.
3)Exactly, you saw demand and decided to try to meet it as a good merchant would.Except there was no way to bottle what entertainers do, so instead of a vendor, you hired an entertainer, drugged her up and put her to work without rest, then even made her take the place of a barker droid by running advertisements for you. Bonus, vendors require a salary (maintenance) but your entertainer didn't. Slight little ingame roleplay for you, cause I couldn't resist.. The only reason youhave an entertainer character is to provide a service to buff and heal in the way entertainers can. The "entertaining" is not what motivates you, just the unmet demand.
4). Thank you for finally admitting there is a problem for entertainers. I have never denied that combat players (and I'm one of them btw) have a problem finding live buffs when they want them. There's two problems. I just wanted you to admit that bots can't be part of the solution because they are also part of the problem for entertainers (though they do solve the combat player's concerns). Its sort of like "solo" groups. I hate them, but I use them. If we had terminals that gave solo players actually challenging missions that paid well, I wouldn't. Yet there are "bot" solo-group leaders and live sologroup ones. Some even take pride in how good they are at it, just like you do for your bot. But its all masking the real problem that the game is unbalanced. Solo groups are just a work around to having level appropriate missions for solo players and grouped players..
5). Yes, let's address the real problems--all of them. Panthu had it right,Dancer should be fun. Playing a role in a game that many see as best left to an unattended automated alt is not fun. Looking for mind buffs for hours is not fun either, nor is having to get them just to play even if you can find them. Loop removalwon't really solve either problem, but then, you must be reading different dev posts than I am if you think the Combat Revamp isn't next on the plate. I believe they are going to first focus on why people want to look for mind buffs so much. If they fix that, then the combat player's issues would be somewhat solved, at least in regard to buff reliance,and then most wouldn't care quite so much about losing all day length loops.You could be a merchant and sell something else,onceyou aren't stuck all the time looking for buffs. I'm not sure they have in mind anything to help make Dancer more fun. And that is another problem.
I too wish we could stop talking about all thisas a war of some kind that somehow justifies all the rudeness and lack of concern for the fun of other players (no matter how they want to play). So I plan to try to make this my last post in the thread , no matter how tempting it will be to smack down some troll who thinks just because hedoenst much care about playing a dancer, that no one else does or even worse, that they shouldn't. Its a shame Naish can't make his website into one that talks aboutsolutions not just to the current macro work-arounds or the proposals to stop the work-arounds.If he did, THAT would be support of live entertainment. No,killing loops aren'tTHE answer to everything, not even how suer they'll be any sort of answer.But as my last words on the matter....if there's a compromise to be reached, it won't be reached between ATK players and AFK players, but between players who want to play different roles in the game, whether that's merchant, crafting, fighting, healing or yes, entertaining. Dancer should be fun, and the over-all game should be fun. These are not mutually exclusive concepts. They are only mutually exclusive when you think the only reason the Dancer class exists IS to be a mule class run through unattended play (ie AFK) whether solely or in part.
Which leaves us in the situation that we find ourselves in now. You are playing a profession hoping that it will eventually be molded into what you are looking for. I'm playing the profession for what it is.
Purpose: create a social profession
Strategy: Require that other players use this profession to heal battle fatigue
Side effect: buffs
I'm thinking of a word, and that word is "Delusional!"
Naish wrote:
Ialso think that Lucas and SOE want the same thing that you want for the entertainer classes. However, they have not been successful in their endevor.
Uh, they haven't really failed, they just haven't tried yet. We were given a sort of "tester" kind of plan... then put on a shelf. We were fine at first, when the gamebase was mostly laid back paceRPers... then they started trying to speed up content to bring in gamers whocraved faster paced combat... and they came... and our tester plan didn't work anymore.
Our setup was fragile. It doesn't work now.Tell SOE it's important to fix the Ent plan. Tell them what you like and don't like about playing a Dancer... I mean playing though. What you canhave your toon run through while you aren'tat the keys is neither here nor there as far as gameplay goes. We need a gameplay plan! Our old one is useless to everyone as a gameplay option right now.
Yeah, pretty much
Panthu wrote:
Our old one is useless to everyone as a gameplay option right now.
Schardour wrote:
Yeah, pretty much
Panthu wrote:
Our old one is useless to everyone as a gameplay option right now.
Yuck, another sad face. Good thing I changed my sig!
Maybe it gets fixed in the combat re-balance. Maybe it gets fixed with holodiscs.
Whatever happens, fix it by providing an alternative solution that is dependable. Don't fix it by making it hard to get mind buffs again.
Ok, time to go home and blow stuff up with my combat toon.
Naish wrote:
99% of the people want dependable mind buffs. So i'm giving it to them. Oddly enough I'm on your side of the argument. The dancer prof is totally messed up. Bot's aren't the best way to provide the service, but right now, it's the only way.
Maybe it gets fixed in the combat re-balance. Maybe it gets fixed with holodiscs.
Whatever happens, fix it by providing an alternative solution that is dependable. Don't fix it by making it hard to get mind buffs again.
Ok, time to go home and blow stuff up with my combat toon.
I don't care if you bot. I don't care if it's the best thing to do right now for your purpose. I don't care at all as the Dancer Corr. I care that all you people in this thread wake up and realize that it can and should be better. I care that the people playing a Dancer in any form stop tearing each other apart and start petitioning the Devs together. I spend about 99% of my time in these forums trying to tell the Devs that this is a worthwhile profession and many different kinds of players are interested in it. It just isn't giving enough back yet.
They won't do anything just listening to me though. They need to be hearing this from the whole player base. The combat changes are going to rock. Sadly, we aren't really going to see any improvements. Dancer doesn't need to be the first priority, but it's time for people to say "yes, this is worth fixing and we expect you to fix it" to the Dev team.
All they see or hear about is this stupid AFK/Bot fight which shouldn't even be happening. Everyone should want Dancer fixed, because everyone should want a better game. What you do until we get fixed I don't care, but if you are going to be this vocal about Dancer, you need to be helping to make us more fun for everyone. Period.
Not just Naish, everybody. Complacency with mediocrity is a bad habit. 
It just really bums me out to see all of this fighting over a game element that I've been craving in all other games... there is so much that is cool about Dancer in this game, why can't everyone just get it together and start trying to help that along? How on earth can this thread still be going on with out people seeing that this needs to happen? *le sigh*