Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
DekkoFett wrote:
If you are worried about a buff bot leeching cash, then you are playing the wrong profession
DekkoFett wrote:This thread is all about greed. Dancers and Musicians should want to play because they like the profession and have fun when people come and interact. If you are worried about a buff bot leeching cash, then you are playing the wrong profession
Funny you should mention greed. What about the greed of the combat types who won't tip an entertainer for a heal? What about the greed of those who complain about live entertainers charging for a buff and instead go to a bot for free? What about the greed of those who loot an entertainer enhancement tape, and insist on charging millions for it from the same group that they wouldn't bother to pay or would bicker with over a price of a few k for a buff? Probably never thought about that, huh?
DekkoFett wrote:This thread is all about greed. Dancers and Musicians should want to play because they like the profession and have fun when people come and interact. If you are worried about a buff bot leeching cash, then you are playing the wrong profession
This is quite the oxymoron.
Dancers should play because they like the professions... Except buff bots, THOSE are okay?
If you don't want to actually PLAY your character, yes, you are in the wrong profession. That includes people who AFK level, AFK loot camp and people who buffbot. All of which are not playing, but just manipulating the game to get money.
Why is it so terribly wrong to want to be economically viable as a live dancer? Do you go around telling people who are swordsmen that they are just greedy, wanting to have master of a combat profession so they can solo missions? Do you tell them that if the only reason they are swordsmen is to make money they should find another profession?
If not, why the double standard? Why are dancers greedy but swordsmen playing the game?
Why don't I just play merchant?
A: I don't want to
Another Answer: I want buffs for my alt who is a fighter and if my bots not running you can NOT find one.
Come to the Radiant server right now and try to find a mind buff. Try to get a mind buff from anyone but my bot. If illuminati wasn't there you would simply be out of luck. I'm looking at the cantina right now and all thats here are afk grinders.
All you have to do is make a temporary character and come take a look.
Tell me what server you are on and I'll come find a buff from something other than a buff bot.
The cold hard fact is, people want mind buffs to PVP, Grind XP or whatever. If I'm not there the chance that they will be able to find one is slim to none.
Enough for the day. I'm going to play the game now.
Naish wrote:
I'm in here because I don't want my game play style nerfed. You guys are in here because you want us to quit ruining your profession. We are working against one another to convice the devs to move one way or the other.
-- The Problem --
Master Dancer + Master Musician are not always going to be around when you need them. Neither are docs. Neither are tailors. Neither are armorsmiths or weaponsmiths. What is your point here?
-- Solution --
When ATK entertainers are available they should be the logical choice for healing and buffs. But basically, people are plain lazy and cheap so they take the easy way out and go to the buffbot. I have ATK a Cnet and I have watched patron after patron after patron head to the buff bot. This could be accomplised by enabling ATK entertainers to give longer and/or stronger buffs. Perhaps even controlling the balance of the focus/willpower/mind buff. How do you propose the game will determine who is ATK and who is not? If that could be done, that would be great.
Bot's like mine should fill the gap when ATK players aren't around. Why not let NPC entertainers will this gap?
-- Benefit --
ATK Players - You guys can have your profession back. Many entertainers want their profession back the way it was in the beginning of the game; a social profession that wasn't cluttered with buffbots and afk spammers.
AFK Players - We can play the way we want to. Well, I want to play my CH back when I could call all my pets out and use them in combat. What we want may not be what we get.
Combat Players - They can get the buffs they depend on. LOL. What a joke. Any combat profession that states that they need a mind buff to do missions or fight is a lame excuse for combat. I mastered 28 professions and not once did I ever have a mind buff. Not once. Basically mind buffs are an excuse to being lazy and not paying attention in combat.
-- Example --
1. Last night there was another bot in the cantina with me. That bot got little to no business because mine is buffing at 125% mind and 121% focus and willpower. I think that if ATK players had the ability to give better buffs then bots would be a fallback in the event that you guys aren't around. And how to you proposed that the game will figure out who is ATK and who isn't? I would like some great insight in this.
2. Doc buffs. I always get buffs from atk docs. But sometimes there not around. In that case I make my way to a buff house that I know will always be up and running. There is always a line for the ATK docs in Coronet. Apples and oranges here. Comparing a doc buff to an entertainer buff is not the same on so many levels. Resources. Time to buff. Etc. etc.
Done.
Panthu wrote:
Ok, I really don't have an opinion on the whole "AFK is evil thing"... but how can you people not see that this situation exists because our Ent Healing and gameplay is borked? Hello! The reason why you can't find live dancers and musicians buffing every second that the server is up everywhere that they can is because it's boring! It doesn't pay well! There is nothing to do when no one is there to talk to! Half the time when a player does come in to get buffed or healed and we can get some interaction, they have to go take a bio!
Ent Healing is only fun when all of the conditions are right, and there are a lot of conditions!
Why do live doctors not hang out in all the hospitals? Really, we've already seen another prof fail at this plan... and we are doing it a lot more heavily than they ever did!
Get a clue. Ent Healing is borked from both sides, Social player and Combat player. Yes, Dancers deserve a live playable option for their skill point investment. No, the whole game doesn't have to suffer from it like we have been. Ent Healing needs to be revamped. Ent Healing needs to be questioned. Maybe we shouldn't even be healing since it is combat related and we aren't. Maybe we should be doing something for crafters. *shrug*
It doesn't matter, this is a stupid fight. Ent Healing needs to be fixed or it needs to go away and some other useful service should be given to us that can be fun under many circumstances. Dancer should be fun. Fun for the people playing Dancer. Fun for the people interacting with Dancers. Fun fun fun so no one would ever feel like they had to have a Dancer alt that they didn't want and no one playing a Dancer because they wanted to was ever resented by the players they tried to interact with.
This is a dumb dumb dumb fight and I am over it!!
The dancing and talking to people is the fun part! Yeah, it's awesome when you get to help people with your Ent Healing or Buffing, but how often do we get a chance to do that now? Playing in a Cantina with Bots is not fun. I'm sorry, I can't be guilted into saying that it's fun if you just ignore them. No, it isn't fun. It makes you feel stupid. Hustling for something that an unattended toon is giving away for free.... it's not fun! There is nothing game like about it! There is nothing social about it! It just sucks!
I'm sure most everyone here who has been a part of the entertainer profession for a length of time knows this. I know this, but heres the thing for me. I honestly just do not haveany reason to beleive that the developers will get to making our gameplay more fun and exciting in the near future. Heck i'm not sure i beleive they will get around to it within the next year. Everything i've seen over the last year leads me to believe that they will implement yet another simple/stupid solution and leave it at that.
I would love for them to fix us as you say. But honestly what is suposed to happen between now and whatever time that eventualy happens? There isn't going to be anyone left to make it fun for who will apreciate it.
Panthu wrote:
Ok, I really don't have an opinion on the whole "AFK is evil thing"... but how can you people not see that this situation exists because our Ent Healing and gameplay is borked? Hello! The reason why you can't find live dancers and musicians buffing every second that the server is up everywhere that they can is because it's boring! It doesn't pay well! There is nothing to do when no one is there to talk to! Half the time when a player does come in to get buffed or healed and we can get some interaction, they have to go take a bio!
Ent Healing is only fun when all of the conditions are right, and there are a lot of conditions!
Why do live doctors not hang out in all the hospitals? Really, we've already seen another prof fail at this plan... and we are doing it a lot more heavily than they ever did!
Get a clue. Ent Healing is borked from both sides, Social player and Combat player. Yes, Dancers deserve a live playable option for their skill point investment. No, the whole game doesn't have to suffer from it like we have been. Ent Healing needs to be revamped. Ent Healing needs to be questioned. Maybe we shouldn't even be healing since it is combat related and we aren't. Maybe we should be doing something for crafters. *shrug*
It doesn't matter, this is a stupid fight. Ent Healing needs to be fixed or it needs to go away and some other useful service should be given to us that can be fun under many circumstances. Dancer should be fun. Fun for the people playing Dancer. Fun for the people interacting with Dancers. Fun fun fun so no one would ever feel like they had to have a Dancer alt that they didn't want and no one playing a Dancer because they wanted to was ever resented by the players they tried to interact with.
This is a dumb dumb dumb fight and I am over it!!
The dancing and talking to people is the fun part! Yeah, it's awesome when you get to help people with your Ent Healing or Buffing, but how often do we get a chance to do that now? Playing in a Cantina with Bots is not fun. I'm sorry, I can't be guilted into saying that it's fun if you just ignore them. No, it isn't fun. It makes you feel stupid. Hustling for something that an unattended toon is giving away for free.... it's not fun! There is nothing game like about it! There is nothing social about it! It just sucks!
*cough*
... um, was that my out loud voice?
I've been avoiding this thread like the plague, as the whole topic now has been nothing but a source of utter frustration for far too long. In the process of clearing the unread postsnumbers (I know... weird thing where I like to see zeros all the way down the forum), on a fluke I saw this post.
/agree 100%.
I'm with you all the way on this, Panthu. Things along these lines have been kicking around in my head now for some months, off and on, though not coalesced yet into something along the lines of a proposal-worthy form. Not yet, anyway. It's just a matter of time before some solidanswers begin topresent themselves, though it is a pretty in-depth subject to approach.
Naish wrote:
I guess you didn't like my answer in my earlier post. SO here it is again and I'll give you another reason as well.
Why don't I just play merchant?
A: I don't want to
Another Answer: I want buffs for my alt who is a fighter and if my bots not running you can NOT find one.
Come to the Radiant server right now and try to find a mind buff. Try to get a mind buff from anyone but my bot. If illuminati wasn't there you would simply be out of luck. I'm looking at the cantina right now and all thats here are afk grinders.
All you have to do is make a temporary character and come take a look.
Tell me what server you are on and I'll come find a buff from something other than a buff bot.
The cold hard fact is, people want mind buffs to PVP, Grind XP or whatever. If I'm not there the chance that they will be able to find one is slim to none.
Enough for the day. I'm going to play the game now.
No, you didn't really answer the question, but I didn't expect you to. Two year olds can say "Wah, I don't want to mommy", but how about answeringas an adult this time, so "WHY Don't you want to?"Merchant might not yet offer what you want, but rather than adding some new layers to entertainers for "live" bonuses and allowing you to continue afk, why not just add something to merchant? I'll skip what for now, but why must you need to be afk with an entertainer to solve the needs of the mind buffs/off hours healing? I came up with several things that could happen to address the need (perceived or not) forbuffs that woudl require live active play at some point in the process, and you ignored all of that with this repeatedtale "of oh boo hoo, I can't find entertainers when I need to find them." I'm saying, take that as a given, but let's find another way besides your afking.
I wouldn't be suggesting alternatives based in crafting or merchant if I didn't agree with you that mind buffs are currently a problem and that maybe there is a need for some alternatives. Here's a short list of other ways to solve the problem of a lack of live entertainers: Items to boost mind dropping in loot, Items made by tailor (jewlery) with focus crystals (code mostly already there), better brandy, healing brandy, cranked up auto heals on buildngs, merchant services vendors, holodics...the list goes on and on (kind of like your love for bots). Maybe if bots vannish more live players will appear, but maybe not.I've never said live play is the only way to bridge the gap between "max enhanced HAM" for players and "normal HAM...though I may have saidbot owners are aham as in a pig as in greedy. But that's just as a joke. My point, that I keep making and you keep ignoring, is that forget what's in the game now (because you yourself said ok let's make some changes) and come up with something better for everyone.
So I don't need to tell you what server I'm on --I'll concede your point that entertainers are hard to find but I won't concede that once we start making changes to how things are, that the solution must preserve bots. You still haven't explained why you need to "BOT", you have only explained why you can't rely on live entertainers. Well that wasnt what I asked you, now was it?And that brings me back to the question you love to avoid--whydon't you want to play a merchant?
Naish wrote:
I'm in here because I don't want my game play style nerfed. You guys are in here because you want us to quit ruining your profession. We are working against one another to convice the devs to move one way or the other.
I suggest we find some middle ground and promote one idea together.
-- The Problem --
Master Dancer + Master Musician are not always going to be around when you need them.
-- Solution --
When ATK entertainers are available they should be the logical choice for healing and buffs. This could be accomplised by enabling ATK entertainers to give longer and/or stronger buffs. Perhaps even controlling the balance of the focus/willpower/mind buff.
Bot's like mine should fill the gap when ATK players aren't around.
-- Benefit --
ATK Players - You guys can have your profession back.
AFK Players - We can play the way we want to.
Combat Players - They can get the buffs they depend on.
-- Example --
1. Last night there was another bot in the cantina with me. That bot got little to no business because mine is buffing at 125% mind and 121% focus and willpower. I think that if ATK players had the ability to give better buffs then bots would be a fallback in the event that you guys aren't around.
2. Doc buffs. I always get buffs from atk docs. But sometimes there not around. In that case I make my way to a buff house that I know will always be up and running. There is always a line for the ATK docs in Coronet.
Naish, why can't you play a merchant?Until you answer that question, you don't have any ground to stand on.
The Problems: AFK play undercuts the incentives of players to be active in the game. Live players can use in game mechanics that require active play to provide services when not logged in but none currently exist to provide sufficient and reliable enhancements in the view of some combat players.
The Solution: When active players cannot be logged in to provide a bonus that is seen as necessary, players can use merchant provided vendors (dispensing goods or services) that provide boosts that are not quite as good but still sufficient to allow a fun combat experience.
Benefits:
ATK players: Gain new roles and ways to play the game actively
AFK player: Game is on pause and you can go on with your life, no need to stay logged in when you don't have time to play just to cover the needs of those who do have to play.
Combat Players (who are after all a subset of ATK players): Get reliable buffs and greater choices for strategy in preparing for battleswith a lot less lag and spam and a moreenjoyable and optional cantina experience.
Ok, I apologize for the big yellow letters but its funnier to see Naish ignore it then.Actually, this time, I'm not really asking *him* so much as anyone who nods their heads at his words about anything involving AFK seeming like a good solution.
Why not improve what merchants can sell? Vercupti, Canape, Muon, Pixie and Brandy all fall far short of letting people fight the things they can with a full suite of live buffs, or at least, to do those things for as long and with as much ease. Now there's a reason for that, in that the developers didn't want to cut into what live players do, but maybe they set the level of those food buffs/spice buffs too low.Or, maybe base stats are too low. Either way, why can't we fix what is in the game already or add some new active role rather than promoting all this "AFK" junk? Why have accounts executing commands for no reason (as in when no one is in the buff group and the bot buffs the air) except to add lag? Naish says he isn't lazy, says he puts effort, but he never will explain why therefore, merchant let alone entertainer couldn't be made appealing to him to play activelyand why he must "fight" to keep his ability to afk bot instead. I can imagine a compromise between the desires of combat players and entertainers, but this AFK bot thing just seems irrelevant to that.
2. I got tired of always tying to find a mind buff when I wanted/needed one, so I made a bot for myself. Now I don't have to run around for an hour trying to find a mind buff.
3. Other players had the same problem so I looped my buffing macro and let it run for them.
Look, it's obvious that bots are causing you guys headaches. And maybe, the easy solution is to kill looping macros and in turn kill bots. But I don't think that should happen until there is an alternative way for entertainers to provide a dependable service. I think the idea of holodiscs is pretty clever and at that point I probably would become a merchant.
Killing looping macros addresses the symptom, not the real issue.