Dancer Archive
Thread: New insp buffs .... 1st impression
Chessack
Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:41 pm
#27
Ah true, with bank tips I guess you could do this.
Still, what is the alternative? I am not sure making these all passive would lead to *less* AFKing. In fact we know that having it be 100% passive leads to tons of AFKing.
C
Still, what is the alternative? I am not sure making these all passive would lead to *less* AFKing. In fact we know that having it be 100% passive leads to tons of AFKing.
C
PoetDancer
Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:55 pm
#28
It may not end AFKing,
But at least it wouldn't make us worthless to patrons if we weren't the ones to type /inspire, and sort through the stupid menu.
So my question to you is, Chessak, is why do we even have to bedancing to give this? Why do we have to maintain a dancing state? Why do patrons have to /watch us for a given time?
Because I'd bet you that if it were up to our customers, they'd rather us just give them the buff, and forget the requirement to view the dance.
PoetDancer
Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:15 pm
#29
But you see, I still don't understand though, Chessak.
Why do we have to be dancing to do this?
A player still cannot get the buff unless we do /inspire, and click the menu. We are still in control.
And we can still dance, and have players appreciate us for dancing.
But why do we "have" to force players to watch a dance they do not want to watch, and waste their time, when all they want is for us to buff them?
Chessack
Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:19 pm
#30
They have to watch us for...
... the same reason they have to waste their time doing missions from a terminal, when all they want is to gain money or XP.
... the same reason they have to go to a vendor and buy an item when all they want is to have the item.
... the same reason they have to find a doctor to heal their wounds, or have doctor skill, when all they want is to be at 100% health.
... the same reason they have to find the right resources to craft an item when all they want is perfect resources in unlimited supply so crafting the desired item with the desired stats would be easy.
We are dancers. That is what we do. The inspiration buff window is a game mechanic to get certain things to work under the limitations of the game engine and all the other stuff in the game. That's all. It's just a game mechanic, the same way rolling 1d20 is in D&D.
C
... the same reason they have to waste their time doing missions from a terminal, when all they want is to gain money or XP.
... the same reason they have to go to a vendor and buy an item when all they want is to have the item.
... the same reason they have to find a doctor to heal their wounds, or have doctor skill, when all they want is to be at 100% health.
... the same reason they have to find the right resources to craft an item when all they want is perfect resources in unlimited supply so crafting the desired item with the desired stats would be easy.
We are dancers. That is what we do. The inspiration buff window is a game mechanic to get certain things to work under the limitations of the game engine and all the other stuff in the game. That's all. It's just a game mechanic, the same way rolling 1d20 is in D&D.
C
Panthu
Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:19 pm
#31
Sirii, I can support you asking for more things to do for fun instead of for others. I could have supported passive services in the past because I did come to see ways that it could work.... but, this is what we have now and this is what this forum asked for forever now!
Dancers wanted to be watched for a period of time. Dancers wanted to set the buff and have it done with a menu type option that couldn't be macroed with in game tools. Dancers wanted to know who was watching them. Dancers wanted to call the option instead of having a pop up. I know, because I had to count the requests for these things for a while there!
This is what the majority of people who cared enough to post in here have asked for forever. You are going to have to move on. The feedback worked in this case. The Devs listened. They did what we asked for.
Yes, we all have little wishes here and there that we don't all agree on - for me it's the split up of the buffs. I personally want musicians and dancers to have absolutely no difference other than they play songs and we dance, but I'm not throwing a fit about it! Why? Because since the CU the majority of people in the three performance forums asked to have different services for Musicians and Dancers.
How bizarre would it be for me to pitch a fit using the same exact medium, this forum, when this forum has been listened to already. More people wanted the difference! They did it that way. There's really no way for me to complain about it.
The only thing they have done here that was not requested by the majority of the forum is take away self buffing. The majority does want self buffing and always has - so that and only that do any of us have a leg to stand on for fit throwing about these buffs.
We can request other things be changed - the auto buffing, the prop/instrument buff to dances/songs, and a few other smallish requests or tweaks.... but not full on design changes when we got what the majority asked for!
Go back to asking for play content. Stop sulking that others got something you personally didn't want.
PoetDancer
Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:31 pm
#32
Why do we want to waste a crafters time like that?
I thought we wanted to give them something nice. Not waste their time.
How much do I owe them, for wasting their time?
When they yell at me for wasting their time, just for them to get the only thing they want, what will I say?
Will I say, "I wish it didn't have to be like this, but dancers didn't want you to get the buff without suffering through a dance?"
Chessack
Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:34 pm
#33
How are we wasting their time? A buff takes a few minutes and lasts a few hours. We ARE giving them something nice. If we're any good at performance, they should enjoy it. I don't personally know any crafters in-game who are upset about this. Most of them are jazzed that we got something useful and THEY are the beneficiaries instead of combat-toons.
C
C
PoetDancer
Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:37 pm
#34
If I could give it instantly, and not be dancing to give it, they'd pay me just as much--if not more--than if they had to /watch a dance for a set time.
That's no platform for performance.
That's just another reason to hate mefor needing to perform.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-31-2005 05:38 PM
Panthu
Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:38 pm
#35
PoetDancer wrote:
Will I say, "I wish it didn't have to be like this, but dancers didn't want you to get the buff without suffering through a dance?"
Yes, try that.
Pleeeeeeease stop being such a diva. We can't all have our own personal way on every single prof issue. If yours falls out of the majority for one item, oh well. We share this profession with each other. To act this poorly when the great bulk of the community has gotten it their way is to act like a spoiled brat who can think of no one but herself.
Please, think of other things to request and talk the majority into asking for with you. Do not alienate yourself from this community any further. It would be a shame.
5ive
Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:03 pm
#36
Sirii, let me first say that I've silently agreed with you on a lot of your posts; and, if not agreed, thought you've put forth your ideas in a way that made me and others think hard about what we wanted and why. So yay for you! I think you're great.
But here's the thing: pretty much all of us here like to dance. That's what we want to spend our in-game time doing, that's what is fun to us. That's our playstyle, regardless of the other things that are attatched to it: we dance. THAT is the platform for performance-- that is what should inspire us to create, to interact with one another,to perform.
However, a lot of uswere sick offeeling useless. Because frankly, we were in terms of the game outside the cantina. Yes, people would come in to get the general 10% buff; and yes, people would come in to chat and watch (as opposed to/watch)us. But we didn't really do anything that impacted anyone in a big way, we didn't really have a reason to justify asking for payment or even hoping for tips. And while the dancing in and of itself stayed fun, everything else seemed superpluscrappy.
So, the devs gave us a way to hopefully not feel so lonely in the cantinas; and to hopefully provide a service people would like. AND be able to do both these things while doing what we like to do, what we chose to do-- dance. Would a BEpay me more if I could buff her in two seconds, without her having to stand there and /watch me dance? You bet! But tough on them-- this is my playstyle, this is what I want to do, and I shouldn't have to NOT dance just to give someone a quickbuff. Would letting someone pick their own buff from a popup box or radial menu be less confusing? Sure! But tough on them (and us 
)-- this helps get rid of the AFK while letting us keep doing what we want to do; this forces them to have to interact with us more, even if it is just to say "give me x buff". And no, some people may not like that. No, some people may be bitter about that and hate us. But seriously-- tough. They want to bust on our play and the way the dancing system works, they can take this /addignore and this /deny and go find someone else to be mean to.
)-- this helps get rid of the AFK while letting us keep doing what we want to do; this forces them to have to interact with us more, even if it is just to say "give me x buff". And no, some people may not like that. No, some people may be bitter about that and hate us. But seriously-- tough. They want to bust on our play and the way the dancing system works, they can take this /addignore and this /deny and go find someone else to be mean to.I don't think these buffs were EVER about giving us a platform for performance. It's up to us to do that ourselves. But these will hopefully let us meet more people who'd be willing to take time out of their day to come see us do just that, no buffs wanted; and this system, regardless of how convoluted, is attempting to fix some things a lot of us have felt were wack in the system.
DanceRulez
Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:23 pm
#37
Sirii, if it helps try to think of it this way. Some things in the game are meant to try to simulate real life mechanisms, and other things are completely fabricated and used as a convenience. I think as much as possible, real life styled mechanisms are used, but when these take away from the convenience or fun aspect, then an approximation or sometimes a short-cut is used instead.
For example, no one could really carry a nalargon with them wherever they go anymore than a street musician could drag around a grand piano with him to put on a show at any spot of his choosing. Instead a musician is allowed a "cheat" of being able to store and call it from our magical datapad and have the luxury of playing the nalargon anywhere anytime. It allows the musician to have it when and where he or she needs it, it makes it more fun, and it allows a musician to be a musician.
Now the doctor profession is generally patterned after realistic mechanisms as in healing, enhancing (such as using hormones or steroids or some such to enhance body functions or attributes), even resurrecting to a degree (it is possible to revive someone who's body is clinically dead if acted on fast enough), now the mechanics are certainly simplified and varied, but in general these functions "make sense".
Dance and music buffs would be another example of something that is patterned after a realistic mechanism. The point being that in real life you might listen to music or watch an artisitic performance such as dance to relax your mind or even to inspire your soul but you have to experience the performance to receive such a benefit. This is what the game mechanics are trying to model in some sense. The character in game must experience the performance either through /watch'ing or /listen'ing to receive a benefit, buff, from it. You could argue that the player just wants the buff and should be granted it instantly in some way, but then you've negated the need for the entertainer to provide it at all. You might as well give it to the spice dealer instead as some "mind enhancing drug" because then you don't need the entertainer anymore.
I think the devs want players to get a benefit from spending time with entertainers, and I hope that you would probably support that as well, Sirii. The thing is, the reason people in real life see entertainers, actors, dancers, musicians, comedians, athletes, etc., is generally to get a break from the every day routine and be entertained for a while, and if they're very lucky, maybe even inspired. In game, though, the game itself is intended to be the medium of entertainment, and there is no need for "entertainers". If you want to include an entertainer profession in the game, then they need something to do - a reason to be there at all. There needs to be some mechanic that makes at least some players need or want to see us at some point, because there is simply no way that limited in game tools (limited due to technological as well as any potential legal considerations) could ever adequately represent the variations, complexities or entertainment value of a real performer doing a real performance (not to mention that not all players who might want to be a musician or dancer in game have the talent to create unique and interesting performances on their own). This mechanic used to be mind wounds, BF, and mind buffs, now it's inspiration buffs and the way to deliver them is for the patron to spend some amount of time /watch'ing or /listen'ing. To argue that patrons should be able to get these buffs instantly somehow rather than spending time with us, is to argue that patrons should not get any tangible benefit (i.e. a game mechanic) from spending time with us and essentially to argue that we should not exist at all.
I know you wouldn't want that, and I'm sure you want a purpose in the game as much as probably the rest of us. We could argue till the bols come home on what the best purpose for us is, but the devs are the ones who actually get to set it. While I, too, would have favored an improved BF system based on what we had before, we have instead been given this buff system, so this is what we have to work with. Now it's our turn to make it work the best we can and use our skills to the best of our ability to make that time with customers as pleasant as possible.
I've had the pleasure of performing with you before, Sirii, and I know that you were good at performing when working with the mind wound and BF system. I would hope that you could find your way to working the new profession buff system equally well.
For example, no one could really carry a nalargon with them wherever they go anymore than a street musician could drag around a grand piano with him to put on a show at any spot of his choosing. Instead a musician is allowed a "cheat" of being able to store and call it from our magical datapad and have the luxury of playing the nalargon anywhere anytime. It allows the musician to have it when and where he or she needs it, it makes it more fun, and it allows a musician to be a musician.
Now the doctor profession is generally patterned after realistic mechanisms as in healing, enhancing (such as using hormones or steroids or some such to enhance body functions or attributes), even resurrecting to a degree (it is possible to revive someone who's body is clinically dead if acted on fast enough), now the mechanics are certainly simplified and varied, but in general these functions "make sense".
Dance and music buffs would be another example of something that is patterned after a realistic mechanism. The point being that in real life you might listen to music or watch an artisitic performance such as dance to relax your mind or even to inspire your soul but you have to experience the performance to receive such a benefit. This is what the game mechanics are trying to model in some sense. The character in game must experience the performance either through /watch'ing or /listen'ing to receive a benefit, buff, from it. You could argue that the player just wants the buff and should be granted it instantly in some way, but then you've negated the need for the entertainer to provide it at all. You might as well give it to the spice dealer instead as some "mind enhancing drug" because then you don't need the entertainer anymore.
I think the devs want players to get a benefit from spending time with entertainers, and I hope that you would probably support that as well, Sirii. The thing is, the reason people in real life see entertainers, actors, dancers, musicians, comedians, athletes, etc., is generally to get a break from the every day routine and be entertained for a while, and if they're very lucky, maybe even inspired. In game, though, the game itself is intended to be the medium of entertainment, and there is no need for "entertainers". If you want to include an entertainer profession in the game, then they need something to do - a reason to be there at all. There needs to be some mechanic that makes at least some players need or want to see us at some point, because there is simply no way that limited in game tools (limited due to technological as well as any potential legal considerations) could ever adequately represent the variations, complexities or entertainment value of a real performer doing a real performance (not to mention that not all players who might want to be a musician or dancer in game have the talent to create unique and interesting performances on their own). This mechanic used to be mind wounds, BF, and mind buffs, now it's inspiration buffs and the way to deliver them is for the patron to spend some amount of time /watch'ing or /listen'ing. To argue that patrons should be able to get these buffs instantly somehow rather than spending time with us, is to argue that patrons should not get any tangible benefit (i.e. a game mechanic) from spending time with us and essentially to argue that we should not exist at all.
I know you wouldn't want that, and I'm sure you want a purpose in the game as much as probably the rest of us. We could argue till the bols come home on what the best purpose for us is, but the devs are the ones who actually get to set it. While I, too, would have favored an improved BF system based on what we had before, we have instead been given this buff system, so this is what we have to work with. Now it's our turn to make it work the best we can and use our skills to the best of our ability to make that time with customers as pleasant as possible.
I've had the pleasure of performing with you before, Sirii, and I know that you were good at performing when working with the mind wound and BF system. I would hope that you could find your way to working the new profession buff system equally well.
PoetDancer
Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:07 pm
#38
I am playing on borrowed time.
My game died on August 30th. My account runs dry on September 16th.
I do not see the point of answering a "can u buff me" /tell.
I can't buff them. Nobody here can buff them. Not then, not now, not ever. They have to do the /watching.
So why do I need to sort through this stupid /inspire, and buff window? That's not fun. That takes no talent. The worst performer in the world can do that. And now, the developers are telling me that I am only as good to patrons as the buttons I push?
Sorry, I want no part of it.
Now I am here, hoping for a miracle. Hoping they can give me something worthy of being played. Mashing buttons just to do some "silly gimmick" that has nothing to do with performance is not satisfying to me.
They can't give me what I need by Sepember 16th. So it is a lost cause. Self-buffing at least would pique my interest perhaps to complete my mastery in fencing, and piloting, since I'd be able to have an XP enhancement wherever I need it, at any hour. But even the whole of Panthu and Esharra put together cannot make it happen before September 16th.
But at least I have to try.
I don't want to dance today. I don't even want to put up my tags. Because I don't want to hear, "can u buff me" ever again. There was a time recently that I didn't, and I was happy.
Chessack
Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:03 am
#39
That is why I mastered entertainer long, long ago. I always played music (even if it was just rock or something, when that's all I could play) when the cantina was without a musician. I only danced when there was a musician to play for me, since Dejah dances to music.
The end result was ultimately mastering musician just because I end up playing music far more often than dancing, as there are rarely any other entertainers around to play music for me.
I think this will change with the new buffing system. The main people wanting buffs will be AS, WS, and SWs, and musicians do those. So we will see more musicians showing up shortly.
C
The end result was ultimately mastering musician just because I end up playing music far more often than dancing, as there are rarely any other entertainers around to play music for me.
I think this will change with the new buffing system. The main people wanting buffs will be AS, WS, and SWs, and musicians do those. So we will see more musicians showing up shortly.
C