Dancer Archive
Thread: Do you think it's fair to spend 400k xp out of 900k xp when you could be getting FS xp from it?
Panthu
Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:37 am
#27
EsistDarkSky wrote:
Well, Armorsmith need to collect a wide array of loot items, the most notably of which being the GDK scale, which I have hounded after for MONTHS and still have been unable to attain. Tailors need to have loot items such as Heavy Duty Leather or Clasps which also takes time, and Weaponsmiths needed the Schematic, Yellow Cubes from the Geonosian Dungeon, Geonosion Solidifying Agents, etc.
They all had to sacrifice stuff that took time to attain. I understand that you're thinking 400k is Severe, especially when compared to the Smiths who had to sacrifice no XP in order to get their items.. But factor in the collection process of the necessary items..
Well, sacrificing time and effort to run around and collect things might be different. This is a very "Epic Quest" kind of setup and that would be pretty normal for that kind of thing in other games. Getting "loot drops" doesn't really make any sense here in this case, but running around getting small items as part of the Quest before we could move on would.
EsistDarkSky
Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:39 am
#28
Well, if it's an "Epic Quest" you're going for, don't you think it's understandable that you have to put in a certain level of devotion to learn a new dance?
EsistDarkSky
Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:54 am
#29
I could imagine tying Jabba into it somehow.(Not the Empire or the Rebellion, though. I don't think the Emperor cares for dancers.) Unfortunetly, I could see it turning into the same Mundane "Go here and dance for X minutes" sort of thing that wouldn't be much funner and/or better than the -400k XP idea.
WeltraumStreuner
Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:12 am
#30
NewJedi wrote:
As I said in the Musician forum in response to a similar post, I might agree that 400K is a bit steep, but I don't mind that the devs have given us a new goal. Would we really prefer that the song and dance be costless? In MMORPGs, significant new abilities normally entail significant effort. The quests (which I found enjoyable) are a good start, but they can be done in an hour or so. The new song is great, and it's well worth the 400K XP, IMHO. People have been complaining to me for months that they don't have goals as entertainers. Well, suddenly, now we have two! XP for Western, and XP for Jedi. I think that's a good thing!
No no, that is no Goal .. you should have listen to the whistle of the referee, it had been a Foul 
If the DEV's realy want to see the new dance and song in game .. the quest should give us 400K XPs, that way round it will be good new content. Our audiance in most cases does not care what dance or song we are performing, all they want is BF healing and some a little bit of chat while we buff them.
Schardour
Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:32 am
#31
I wouldn't have a problem paying 400K if it were described as a post-Master goal and had a reward that actually worked and had a purpose. I really only have two problems with it. The description of the quest as an "Entertainer Quest" that only requires Novice Dancer or Musician (because it's not and doesn't), and the fact that the reward is simply a "new" broken dance. If this was purely a social profession, then sure, a new dance would suffice as a reward. But it has been turned into a support profession as well, and this reward benefits neither the dancer nor the viewer in any marketable manner. What is the net gain on investment when you take this quest? It's difficult to measure the worth of this reward. You lose 400K xp and a few hours of your day. You gain the "experience" of the quest (somewhat dull, from what I've heard), and the use of a new set of skill animations that don't have an effect on anything other than the eye. If dances were tied to wound/fatigue healing speed, buff strength, duration, or speed, then I could see dumping xp on it. Currently, all I see is a broken dance that fails to warrant either my time or my banked xp.
(Maybe I'm just bitter about the fact that the availability of a new dance will mean absolutely nothing to the viewer, only to the dancer. Other rewards are marketable. Ours is not.) (The fact that it's bugged doesn't bother me too much. After all, so were the jetpack and mando armor.)
Dea_
Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:40 am
#32
I just want to mention.. I'm master swordswoman and master dancer.
Now, I'm interested to get, at my pace, my second slot...
In my case, those 400k dance xp hurt.. Big time. Because, since I'm a causual dancer, it will take me forever to get it, and that's 40k less fs sence xp for me, which is huge.
But of course, like everyone says, entertainers don't care about those things...
ElayneDancer
Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:10 pm
#33
Well, a couple of points.
1) I have no intention of becoming a Jedi Dancer. Period. It's just silly.
2) While I may possibly take some force sensitive skills as a lark, I don't intend to pursue them more than casually.
3) I have capped Dance Xp on both my dancers, so dumping 400k into a new dance isn't at all troublesome to me.
4) The idea of grinding Force XP as a Dancer fills me with fear and horror.
You can convert 900k Dance XP to 30K force XP, as I understand it. It is also my understanding that this is not nearly enough to buy a FS line.
Therefore, you would have to grind up to 900k dance.. multiple times.
The horror of being force to grind to cap multiple times would drive me into madness and psychosis.
The fact is, Jedi's favour combat profession. It's not that we CAN'T become force sensitive. But for my swordsmen friends earn 100k an hour or more (I'm ignoring the truly absurd gits who claim to make 300k an hour and such), so they can cap and convert in nine hours. (Roughly 3 days of casual play.) For me to cap, at 100 Dance XP a tick, 900k divided by 100 equals = 9000 ticks need, 10 seconds between ticks, 9000 times 10 equals 90000 seconds, 90000 seconds divided by 60 in a minute 15000 divided by 60 in an hour, 25 hours.
24 FS boxes, let's say one grind per box, 24 * 25 600. It would day you roughly 600 hours to grind your way to jedi as a dancer. Do you really want to spend 600 hours in Coronet Cantina grinding away?
*Shudders*
As someone with multiple master dancers, please let me tell you... Never again. NEVER again.
If I want to go Jedi, I'll be using my TKM, not my dancing. To do otherwise would be to risk me snapping and running amok in the streets of coronets.
1) I have no intention of becoming a Jedi Dancer. Period. It's just silly.
2) While I may possibly take some force sensitive skills as a lark, I don't intend to pursue them more than casually.
3) I have capped Dance Xp on both my dancers, so dumping 400k into a new dance isn't at all troublesome to me.
4) The idea of grinding Force XP as a Dancer fills me with fear and horror.
You can convert 900k Dance XP to 30K force XP, as I understand it. It is also my understanding that this is not nearly enough to buy a FS line.
Therefore, you would have to grind up to 900k dance.. multiple times.
The horror of being force to grind to cap multiple times would drive me into madness and psychosis.
The fact is, Jedi's favour combat profession. It's not that we CAN'T become force sensitive. But for my swordsmen friends earn 100k an hour or more (I'm ignoring the truly absurd gits who claim to make 300k an hour and such), so they can cap and convert in nine hours. (Roughly 3 days of casual play.) For me to cap, at 100 Dance XP a tick, 900k divided by 100 equals = 9000 ticks need, 10 seconds between ticks, 9000 times 10 equals 90000 seconds, 90000 seconds divided by 60 in a minute 15000 divided by 60 in an hour, 25 hours.
24 FS boxes, let's say one grind per box, 24 * 25 600. It would day you roughly 600 hours to grind your way to jedi as a dancer. Do you really want to spend 600 hours in Coronet Cantina grinding away?
*Shudders*
As someone with multiple master dancers, please let me tell you... Never again. NEVER again.
If I want to go Jedi, I'll be using my TKM, not my dancing. To do otherwise would be to risk me snapping and running amok in the streets of coronets.
Warryyr
Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:23 pm
#34
ElayneDancer wrote:
Well, a couple of points.
1) I have no intention of becoming a Jedi Dancer. Period. It's just silly.
2) While I may possibly take some force sensitive skills as a lark, I don't intend to pursue them more than casually.
3) I have capped Dance Xp on both my dancers, so dumping 400k into a new dance isn't at all troublesome to me.
4) The idea of grinding Force XP as a Dancer fills me with fear and horror.
You can convert 900k Dance XP to 30K force XP, as I understand it. It is also my understanding that this is not nearly enough to buy a FS line.
Therefore, you would have to grind up to 900k dance.. multiple times.
The horror of being force to grind to cap multiple times would drive me into madness and psychosis.
The fact is, Jedi's favour combat profession. It's not that we CAN'T become force sensitive. But for my swordsmen friends earn 100k an hour or more (I'm ignoring the truly absurd gits who claim to make 300k an hour and such), so they can cap and convert in nine hours. (Roughly 3 days of casual play.) For me to cap, at 100 Dance XP a tick, 900k divided by 100 equals = 9000 ticks need, 10 seconds between ticks, 9000 times 10 equals 90000 seconds, 90000 seconds divided by 60 in a minute 15000 divided by 60 in an hour, 25 hours.
24 FS boxes, let's say one grind per box, 24 * 25 600. It would day you roughly 600 hours to grind your way to jedi as a dancer. Do you really want to spend 600 hours in Coronet Cantina grinding away?
*Shudders*
As someone with multiple master dancers, please let me tell you... Never again. NEVER again.
If I want to go Jedi, I'll be using my TKM, not my dancing. To do otherwise would be to risk me snapping and running amok in the streets of coronets.
There's no need to "power grind" Dancer or Musician for FS xp. If you're going to be dancing or playing music anyways, and banking xp, then what's to cause you "snapping and running amok in the streets of coronet," exactly? If you're dancing anyways, and you build up xp, why not do something with it at that point and convert it?
Nowhere does it say that FS xp must be ground out as quickly as possible. But, as you said, 400k xp does take awhile. It's fine if you have no intention of pursuing a Jedi with your Dancer. But nowhere does it say that Dancers and Musicians should be impeded in their pursuit of Jedi, for the sake of new content. Since I plan to take my time, my valuable time, playing my character and gradually earning xp to get Force Sensitivity and then a Jedi, why am I forced to sacrifice the xp I've worked so hard for, just to get myself some new content. We've been waiting so long for this opportunity, and now I feel punished for wanting both it and Jedi. That's not right.
Inkanissen
Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:08 pm
#35
Yes, I am fine with spending 400k dance or music xp to get a new dance/song. The Armoursmiths have to get loot and to craft for making their quest, we just dance and get the reward that way, seems good to me. Many entertainers have no fighting skills at all, so I am relieved that we did not stuck in some weird loot requirement, but we can entertain!
DanceRulez
Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:51 pm
#36
ElayneDancer wrote:
You can convert 900k Dance XP to 30K force XP, as I understand it. It is also my understanding that this is not nearly enough to buy a FS line.
Actually the conversion from Dance XP is 10:1 so that 900k converts into 90k of Sense XP. Not all that bad actually. I completely filled the Novice Sense box almost twice over just by exchanging my Dance XP alone (I haven't even used my Healing XP yet). Unfortunately I haven't unlocked Sense yet. I did Crafting first. Compare that to exchanging my Tailor XP which was capped at 120k with a 5:1 exchange plus some spare General Crafting XP at 8:1 I think. I came out to only a little over 30k altogether and I need 50k to train in Novice Crafting so with all my accumulated crafting XP to date I wasn't even able to finish that. Hopefully I can unlock Sense during this next phase, then I can work on leveling up both.
Err... ummm ... but to stay on topic... I wanna be spending that Dance XP on FS Sense and not have to worry about spending it on a new dance that I should be getting just from doing the quest alone. (there!)
NewJedi
Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:45 am
#37
Well, in a sense it is accurate to say that this song and dance require only Novice Musician and Dancer. Yes, yes, I know,you need more than that to amass the XP because of XP caps at Novice. But I think you can *keep* the song even if you surrender down to Novice Musician. At least I think you can. To be honest, I can't find the song anywhere on my skill sheet, so I'm not sure. But if I'm right, that means Western is for Novice Musicians in that important sense.If I surrender down to Novice, I'll lose Virtuoso, Jazz, Waltz, and Ballad. But I won't lose Western. Am I right about that?
As for calling it an "entertainer" quest, that seems to me just a general description of both Dancers and Musicians. But perhaps it would be better to bill them as Dancer and Musician quests. /shrug.
ElayneDancer
Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:59 am
#38
Warryyr,
I fully agree with you that I'll be earning dancer experience anyways and could convert it, which is why I said I might possibly take some FS slots as a lark.
However, I intend to do this casually. I might dance alittle. I'll perform mind buffs for my friends. I'll definetely chat with people and socialize. But I'm not going to max my action pool, start dancing, go AFK, come back, restart dancing, etc., ad nauseum. I refuse to. I'd like to think that my game has evolved well beyond that. Therefore, I'd be very, very surprised if I earned more than 50k dance experience a day, which means it'll take me roughly 18 days to cap and convert, which would translate into months before I finish force sensitive.
To me and for my playstayle, that's fully acceptable. However, to most people who are "serious" Jedi hopefuls, the idea of taking 6 months to get Jedi would be practically an insult.
Basically, I see no reason why I shouldn't spend 400K on a new dance, seeing as I'm going to get more use out of that then say Persuasion or Luck (yah, I know, they're the "noob" lines, but those are the ones I want for IC purposes).
You're also complaining that other professions aren't having to pay for new content with XP points. Well, think about it like this. If tomorrow, Sony was to say "BTW, there is a now an Unarmed Hit 4. But it'll cost ya 400K to get it, TKM." Would you consider that to be unfair?
What would make sense to you as to what to charge dancers for a new template ability? Credits? That won't work, because it'll raise the arguement that most dancers are low income, especially if they are "only" dancers. Just give it on a quest? Well, then that raises the issue of "The Dancers got Super Dance for free, why should we pay for Unarmed Hit 4?".
A new dance is like opening up a new box on your character. Dance Knowledge V if you would. As I paid experience for Dance Knowledge 1 through 4, and paid experience for every other dance I have, I don't see anything wrong with paying experience for this one.
I fully agree with you that I'll be earning dancer experience anyways and could convert it, which is why I said I might possibly take some FS slots as a lark.
However, I intend to do this casually. I might dance alittle. I'll perform mind buffs for my friends. I'll definetely chat with people and socialize. But I'm not going to max my action pool, start dancing, go AFK, come back, restart dancing, etc., ad nauseum. I refuse to. I'd like to think that my game has evolved well beyond that. Therefore, I'd be very, very surprised if I earned more than 50k dance experience a day, which means it'll take me roughly 18 days to cap and convert, which would translate into months before I finish force sensitive.
To me and for my playstayle, that's fully acceptable. However, to most people who are "serious" Jedi hopefuls, the idea of taking 6 months to get Jedi would be practically an insult.
Basically, I see no reason why I shouldn't spend 400K on a new dance, seeing as I'm going to get more use out of that then say Persuasion or Luck (yah, I know, they're the "noob" lines, but those are the ones I want for IC purposes).
You're also complaining that other professions aren't having to pay for new content with XP points. Well, think about it like this. If tomorrow, Sony was to say "BTW, there is a now an Unarmed Hit 4. But it'll cost ya 400K to get it, TKM." Would you consider that to be unfair?
What would make sense to you as to what to charge dancers for a new template ability? Credits? That won't work, because it'll raise the arguement that most dancers are low income, especially if they are "only" dancers. Just give it on a quest? Well, then that raises the issue of "The Dancers got Super Dance for free, why should we pay for Unarmed Hit 4?".
A new dance is like opening up a new box on your character. Dance Knowledge V if you would. As I paid experience for Dance Knowledge 1 through 4, and paid experience for every other dance I have, I don't see anything wrong with paying experience for this one.
ElayneDancer
Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:05 am
#39
DanceRulez wrote:
Actually the conversion from Dance XP is 10:1 so that 900k converts into 90k of Sense XP. Not all that bad actually. I completely filled the Novice Sense box almost twice over just by exchanging my Dance XP alone (I haven't even used my Healing XP yet). Unfortunately I haven't unlocked Sense yet. I did Crafting first. Compare that to exchanging my Tailor XP which was capped at 120k with a 5:1 exchange plus some spare General Crafting XP at 8:1 I think. I came out to only a little over 30k altogether and I need 50k to train in Novice Crafting so with all my accumulated crafting XP to date I wasn't even able to finish that. Hopefully I can unlock Sense during this next phase, then I can work on leveling up both.
Err... ummm ... but to stay on topic... I wanna be spending that Dance XP on FS Sense and not have to worry about spending it on a new dance that I should be getting just from doing the quest alone. (there!)
Hrm. That's not to bad then. You could master a line with every conversion, so it'd only take 6 conversions. Woooo... It'd only take me 3 months to get Jedi instead of 6! Owned!