Dancer Archive
Thread: You reaction to same sex customers?
"I see it all too often. Male customer walks in and....Bam! He's greeted and catered to like there's no tomorrow. A female walks in and a good potion of the time, get no recognition whatsoever. I personally feels that that blows!"
I agree.But I think the problem might stem in part from the perceptionthat alarge proportion of the people that play are youngmen or older boys. Many such young adultsare somewhatimmature in regards to sexual matters, and although it might seem ludicrous to those of us who are more mature,some of these folkscan be offended in real lifeby what they see as a homosexual advance in the game. Even a smile can be taken the wrong way. I agree we have to work towards ending such prejudices, but the question is how to do it without turning the game into a massively multiplayertherapy session.
Another problem is that most of the entertainer characters seem to be women. Thus, there oftenaren't enoughmale entertainers to properly greet female clients and let's face it, sexuality - specifically 'hetero'-sexualityis what's expected of the entertainment in venues such as the kind portrayed in the game. Perhaps what you're seeing is just a product of that male/female disparity. Personally, I don't do much greeting - I'm usually too busy just trying to keep up with the conversation.
I'm a male IRL playing a cute blondefemale dancer/scout. Boy, one thing's for sure -you sure get to see the reality of sexism when your character is the stereotypical blonde. I'm very conscious of prejudice, and it sometimes saddens me to think that a lot of players don't realise they're engaging init. I'm also the recipient of reverse discrimination - I'm pretty suremy character'sgood looksgethermore tips than most, and certainly more than the male entertainers. I see the wrong in that too, but I can't help profiting by it. It's a catch-22 situation.
I think it's good though, that games like this can take us out of ourselves to that extent, so that we can see such things from a different perspective. The problem is, there are those who are so male-centred, that they can't even conceive of playing a female role, even in a role-playing game. These are the folks who generally treat women as objects, both in the game and most likelyin real lifetoo.
"of course, there've always been the undie dancers and the /batlashes-at-anyone'-type"
What's wrong with undie-dancing? I think it's important to remember that this IS just a game. Besides, dancing in underwear in the game is merely role-playing what sometimesgoes on in real life. Star Wars cantinas are only one step up from brothels (as I understood it), and players have every right to role play the leering drunkard as well as the drunken party girls (and guys)who drop their clothes after a couple of Gin & Tonics. While on the one hand, we have a duty to prevent the stereotypes and prejudices that are in evidence, I also think that we have a duty to the game to role-play life as it is - warts and all. I fear that some here may be attributing real life out-of-controlemotions to players who are merely having fun being the ignorant jerks they are not in real life. I realise it's hard not to fear that a character who is a jerk in the game may also be one IRL, but it's also possible that players are roleplaying. That is, after all, what the game's all about.
I reckon there's nothing wrong with 'undies nights' in cantinas. They're fun! As a guy roleplaying a woman, I kind of enjoy seeing the men's bodies through a female perspective. I encourage the guys to undress - and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, as long as no one gets carried away with groping or licking. Usually, the type that grope or lick are too embarrassed when everyone around is semi-naked. It sorts the adults from the adolescents. That's my view anyway.
"...as a general rule I treat other avatars as whatever sex they are. I don't even think about whether or not there is really a guy or a girl behind it. If someone is role-playing a female avatar then I think of them as a female and my character reacts accordinly."
Bingo. Ding ding ding ding. My thoughts exactly.
I have no problem with same-sex customers. While Swann isn't naturely an extrovert (meaning she's not the type to great people with a smile and a "Hi! Welcome to our cantina! Enjoy your stay! The emergency exits are here, here, and here...."), she'll still friendly to either sex in her own wry way.
Hell, at a recent party, a girl...not a dancer by first profession...latched onto Swann soon after she arrived, and we wound up playing off each other the whole time I was there. Was fun.
"Whereas most men will see a women flirting, or even just being there dancing AFK, and assume it is something special for them, most women will assume that anybody giving them any attention is just trying to get into their pants."
This caveat applies to RL, as well, as does my advice...the trick, as a woman, is to be wary that they may just be trying to get into your pants, but to never let that show on the outside, unless it becomes painfully obvious and they're not taking the hints.
"The way I see it, dealing with women is a challenge."
Heh. We like to keep things interesting for you.
My guy friend learned this lesson early on in playing MMOs - when he tried a female character, the moment he stepped in the world, he was gifted with clothes, tours of the cities, and any help he could ever need 
He ended up playing that girl for a while, and candidly admits that she grew so powerful because he could easily manipulate people simply because she wasa chick! Of course, I had known that all along...
But also, that was a fairly clean MMO, and he never saw the downside that female avatars experience. He still doesn't believe how bad it can get for us dancers. Thank god Kaadara is a nice town
Been a nice thread since it started and brought up a lot of questions in how women are treated by many in the game, and how some are just plain ignored. I have to say I was real disappointed today, I took my scout/markswoman into the Theed Cantina on Eclipse. Sat down, watched the dancers to heal my BF, used up over 40 stims to gain some xp and heal the dancers. And did not get one, hello, thank you, smile, or even a nod. Yet the males that came in were smiled, winked at, talked to.
When I play my dancer, I talk to everyone, male and female, I rp with them, and kiss quite a few. I've never been told to stop, which I would if asked. And get some real good tips from the women. It's just disappointing to go into a female dominated business and as a woman, be ignored.
Roli Puva, Bounty Hunter want-a-be, Eclipse.
As pointed out, there is a sexual undercurrent to dancing. To some dancers, it's ignored...others revel in it. Some dancers only heed it when dealing with the opposite sex, others are comfortable with either.
I tend to play Swann with a dark side. Not alot of people see it, because she's friendly on the surface...friendly begets friendly, rude begets friendly simply because it irritates the rude person...but the darker motivations are still there, under the surface, affecting decisions.
"What does gender have to do with dancers & customers in this game? It's DANCER not STRIPPER or WHORE."
The fact is, there's a sexual undertone to the game'sdancer profession. It might not be politically correct toadmit it, but it exists. The Star Wars cantina (meaning from the movie) was a seedy den of iniquity, with low-lifes of all kinds. It's only natural that players will roleplay into that - both dancers and customers. And there's nothing wrong with that. Also, the tipping aspect encourages flirting. It's as simple as that.
CreatureCharmer wrote:
As a rl female myself, playing a female character, I'd have to totally agree with what you're saying thugh. I see it all too often. Male customer walks in and....Bam! He's greeted and catered to like there's no tomorrow. A female walks in and a good potion of the time, get no recognition whatsoever. I personally feels that that blows!
That's pretty much been my experience too. But you know what? I like it that way. I go in and the first thing I look for is a male dancer or musician. If I can't find one, I grumble and listen/watch a girl. Now's the interesting part. If I tip early, she 9 times out of 10 starts flirting with me. I usually figure it's some pubescent boy with lesbian fantasies.
I'm not into flirting with girls, sorry! So I started tipping as I walk out the door. Sure, they're a litle rude to me as I watch without tipping, but quite a few apologize after the tip. And when all is said and done, if I have to choose between her being rude to meand flirting with me, I'll take rude.
I love and greet everyone that I come across....
Some of my best friends on this game are chics, as well as plenty of men ((who love this purple mon cal -- maybe it's my eyes))
Nobody in the cantina is shunned, I think as an entertainer, people need to be more vocal -- I can't believe it when I jump a shuttle, and their's eithor no dancer, or only very quiet dancers in the cantina -
Entertainers need to entertain, to have fun - I can joke with the girls, make a wink if they're having fun....but I just find something to talk about -- if anything I'll joke with them about the men I'm seducing =) haha
Just have fun with it, it'll all work out - if you're not comfertable chatting with the chics, at least throw us ladies a hello when we walk in somewhere, some sort of acknowledment....
I may be a huge flirt..but that's not all I do...and it's sad when I see that it's all some girls do....but too each their own
**Hugs**
--Boci Odid--
Of course, I'm wary of doing or saying something inappropriate (realizing a lot of the population are guys in real life who wouldn't want to endure the advances of a frisky male dancer), so I will always mostly act polite and if the patron seems playful, let it go where it may.
But if a male character played by someone I know well steps into the Cantina, it's open season!!
I have a friend who is actively avoiding me because he knows I'll hit on him if he comes near. Someday I'm going to hunt him down...
- Javier
Caelrie wrote:
That's pretty much been my experience too. But you know what? I like it that way. I go in and the first thing I look for is a male dancer or musician. If I can't find one, I grumble and listen/watch a girl. Now's the interesting part. If I tip early, she 9 times out of 10 starts flirting with me. I usually figure it's some pubescent boy with lesbian fantasies.
Heh! That's why me and my husband travel as a team, to make all customers feel comfortable and happy, to give them a choice.
Mind you, we don't flirt with the patrons, ever, as we're married and have eachother to flirt with 
As a rl female playing a female dancer, same-sex customers don't bother me - and neither does the rl gender of the player behind the toon. I try to smile at every customer who walks into the cantina, but have to admit at least 90% of the toons I see walking in are male, if not more. Usually the only female toons I see are grinding away (literally as well as figuratively) on the dance floor. I've seen a lot of flirting between the female dancers, which also correlates with what I've seen in rl nudie bars. Okay, I've only been to one, but that accounts for 100% of my experience with nudie bars The dancers at the bar tended to flirt with each other a lot - was it for the benefit of the horndogs, er, customers or was it because of shared camraderie between the dancers? I couldn't tell you, but I'd guess it was both. The dancers didn't totally ignore me as a female in an environment that was also almost 100% male, but they didn't generally outright flirt with me as much as with the men. And they didn't flirt with my husband when I was standing beside him either, funny that.
I try to take my cues from my customers in-game. If they respond to a suggestive wink, I'll flirt more. If they don't, I'll smile more. I only pay less attention to anybody if I sense that they (a) don't want the attention (hasn't happened yet) or (b) aren't paying any attention to me. I'm shaking my money thing out here - I'm not going to shake it at someone who doesn't seem to appreciate it at all. I suspect most dancers think along similar lines. So ifa female toon were to walk in, and perhaps be unsure how to respond to a dancer for whatever reason, I can see her feeling slighted if a dancer seems to be ignoring her. Beyond that, I can see a female toon getting "lost" in the crowd because sometimes the cantinas are just that crowded, and because some dancer may be assuming that the female toon is there to join them on the dance floor. I could be wrong of course, that's just my train of thought.