Dancer Archive
Thread: Cross-post from entertainer forum (a dev speaks)
I dunno. I'm willing to wait and see how it shakes out. It might be a dramatic change, but a welcome one. If there's no hostage situation with BF healing involved in entertaining anymore, then people will come to cantinas to be... entertained! It happens. It used to happen a lot. Until the holocron grindand AFKers appeared.
People panicked that IDs would be useless fluff when they took away stat migrations. To be honest, I have had a lot more fun and enjoyment as an ID now SMs are gone. People come to me because they want to! Not because they have to. It's so much more fun (and profitable) now than it was. No more grumpy, rude, hurry up I gotta go grind customers anymore. Just people happy to see me that want a little "entertainment" in their game.
Can't you imagine it could change the same way for dancers and musicians? Wouldn't you rather people want to come see your shows, and ignore the boring macrobots than to be held hostage to the BF system and forced to come watch you and they don't care what you do or how you do it as long as it's as fast as you can do it?
*sits patiently and waits to see iftheorbit of the entertainerworld go all wonky*
Cindal wrote:There has to be a better way. Perhaps it is giving a bonus to the entertainer who is ATK which cuts BF healing time in half or individual buffs or whatever they choose to leave in the system.
I agree. The easiest way to make sure entertainers have to be at keyboard is to make whatever benefit you give turn off when you are AFK for more than X minutes (what X is, would be up to the devs to decide I guess). They need to make it so that AFK buffing is impossible. The reason you have to spam people and tell them where live entertainers will be, is that people just assume entertainer == AFK now. That's the devs' fault for letting this problem fester for 2 years. Changing BF into Buffs will do nothing about that without ALSO getting rid of AFK as a viable system for being an entertainer.
However, I still think taking BF healing and most importantly healing XP out of the game, at this point, is about all that's left for them to do. The Entertainer professions have been so wrecked in the last two years that they sure can't keep things as they are. What're they going to do instead? Give people 10x the BF? That won't cure buff-botting, though it will make the heal grind less painful -- at the cost of ticking off everyone who isn't an entertainer and making even more ill-will fester between Ents and everyone else.
The devs have a huge amount of work to do to fix entertainer. The BF change is, if anything, a beginning, certainly not an end point. And they have a really BIG problem, which is that their neglect and mistreatment of the Entertainer profs for the last 2 years has caused 90% of the people who liked the idea of them, to quit in frustration. The result is that now, even if they did something amazing to Entertainers, there wouldn't be enough of us to service all those cantinas anymore. How do they solve this? I'm not sure if they can... SOE has a really horrible reputation in the gaming world (it's basically considered, by everyone I know, the worst MMO company of them all), and their rep with socializer types is even worse. Most of those who quit are not coming back... so where will they get new people from? I'm not sure.
What I am sure of, is that things need to change, and taking BF out and putting in a more positive role for dancers sounds like it might work. At least, it's worth a try. As you point out, what's going on right now, is not working at all.
C
DoMakk wrote:
I am so likely to accidentally equip my fake armor and fake weapons for a fight...it's not funny.
ROFL I think I'd have to laugh.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 06-18-2005 02:26 AM
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 06-18-2005 02:28 AM
Battle fatigue is the hook to get people into Sirii's game. Take it away from her and she won't have a game left to play because having to drop out of entertaining to give these functions and making her compete with a player character alt just doesn't and work. We have a year and a half of buff bots as evidence of that. I saw Sirii play with my own eyes, we played and danced together. The buff bots did the buffing, but people were drawn to her charisma and feminine charms and took the money they would have given to the bot and handed it to her instead simply because she entertained them and made them happy for the few minutes they were forced into that cantina.
Add this new content, that's a terrific idea, just don't let them take battle fatigue away from her.
Message Edited by Reachwind on 06-18-2005 12:56 AM
PoetDancer wrote:
Frankly, who ever had the notion that BF had to go? Certainly not I. Was it YOU?
(PS: I added the smileytounges because you like them so much)
DoMakk wrote:
I am so likely to accidentally equip my fake armor and fake weapons for a fight...it's not funny.
hehe, that would be funny! But I would probably do the same!
/g Currently Playing Western,
/g I am not Dacinign Exotic4...
Chessack wrote:
What I am sure of, is that things need to change, and taking BF out and putting in a more positive role for dancers sounds like it might work. At least, it's worth a try. As you point out, what's going on right now, is not working at all.
C
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 06-18-2005 08:29 PM
But that was just for a couple weeks.
It's worse than I've seen in a long time on Flurry, now. And as Mos Eisley has been filling to the brim with AFKs, they're starting to spread out into places like Theed. Until about a week ago, Theed was with rare exception spam free. Now I have to ignore 2 or 3 people every time I go in.
I just don't see this improvement. All I'm seeing is fewer and fewer patrons who are even bothering to come into the cantina at all.
What Im also not seeing is anyone advocating a return to mind buff style buff application. When the question was asked at the roundtable the answer was that the new inspirations will be applied int he same manner as the current ones. I fail to see how that is different from bf healing from our performance point of view.
PoetDancer wrote:
In my estimation, we have it better right now than we have in all of 2004 and the spring of 2005. We have less unattendees. Spam is down.
You only say that because you are already a master. Things are OK for MASTERS because AFKers are fewer and spam is down. Drop the master box and your two healing lines and try to re-learn them from scratch (no banked, capped heal XP -- that's cheating), and see how great you think we have it.
And by the way, I've been a master for a long time too, so I'm not saying it for self-serving reasons... I just can't imagine how a new dancer would want to stick with it long enough to master as things are now, with so little BF healing XP to be had.
As long as we are providing a useful service, I have no problem with the particular service switching from BF to something else. And for once, PoetD, I just don't even understand where you are coming from. What is the big deal about BF? It's just a word (well, two words) and a number. As long as you can still perform and give the patron something useful in game (e.g., inspirations, which I readily admit are not up to snuff yet), I don't see the problem.
C
BF healing was all about working around a time element. Yes, there were clothes that helped reduce the time needed to heal BF, but they were available to everyone, and they really only meant that there was less pressure on us to fill in the time. I do not think patrons really give much thought to the time needed to tend to BF. In fact, patrons only really care about the time needed to tend to the BF if the act before them seems boring or uninteresting. And I agree. The patrons get a lot of that with unattended entertainers.
But that is the thing that we live entertainers can work with. We can make the time--however long or short in truth--interesting so the patron does not have to be bored. And when thevariable betweenDancer A and Dancer B isa mere time element difference, the response of the patron is to gravitate toward the source that can occupy his or her attention, rather than watch the ctrl-c screen tick down.
Now buffs also have a time element associated with them. And I agree that, like BF healing, the time element of buffing is something that we as live performers can always overcome. I cannot tell you how many times I have done a buff in the pre-CU days, and entertain for ten minutes past the time when the buff was done, only to hear from the patron, "that was quick."
However, when we talk about enhancement functions, the time element is not the critical difference between Dancer A and Dancer B. Buffs also have a magnitude element associated with them. And while a skilled performer at the keyboard can work to mitigate the time element for a patron by creating an interesting show, the magnitude element has nothing really to do with the show.
In fact, the magnitude element is the determining factor in deciding to patronize Dancer A over Dancer B. A 17% increase is better than a 16% increase, and so on. And the thing about a magnitude element is that the things that determine the magnitude of the buff depend on:
1) Skill boxes
and
2) Loots
So as a result, if our viability as performers and our ability to attract an audience depends on maximizing the magnitude element of the buff, then the only real things we would need to do as performers is to maximize our skill boxes, and maximize our loots.
Now certainly, one could decide as a performer to work with the time element. But there is nothing a dancer can really do on the cantina floor to overcome a difference in magnitude. The factors that determine magnitude have nothing really to do with the things the dancer does while performing, and have everything to do with the inherent qualities of the skill animating character.
We saw this in play with buffbots before the CU. A dancer may be charming. They may even be rather skilled in terms of skill progression. But unless they can duplicate the buffing effect of the +125% buffbot next to them, they simply have no means to overcome the difference in a sheer mathematical sense. Couple that with the ability to buffa large numberof patrons at the same time, and even the most entertaining of entertainers has no real means to overcome the discrepency.
Many times I have been able to earn a lot simply by being around the buffbots before the CU. But that was before /covercharge, when a dancer couldn't force a tip for a /watch. I have also been able to gain an audience in the cantinas simply by being available for those things that still only worked with a time element, such as healing BF.
But if the only things that we have to attract an audience in the daily running of the servers have a magnitude element associated with them, and the dancer can merely skill animate and force a tip from those who attempt to /watch, then a single master dancer in a +125% costume leaves every other dancer who cannot duplicate that in a difficult situation.
Because even though a dancer may take great pains to greet every patron, create an amusing atmosphere, and work hard with the only things they can, I would venture to say that in a game that only has statistic enhancements as a draw, patrons would rather pay to have a large buff administered in a boring way, rather than have a smaller buff administered in an amusing way.
Some dancers here have "the +125% costume." And I am sure that it gives you great comfort to know that the costume you possess will "pwn" Sirii Ajaan and those like her every time in a world of enhancement-only dancing. You'll get the return on your investment you and your guilds paid so much to expect.
Frankly, I never had the inclination, the means, nor the guild to get a 125% piece of loot. But at least I always knew that there was some facet of the game that did not depend on loot, where it actually made sense to change costumes to add variety to my routines. Nor do I want to be part of something where I am judged on the loot I buy or am given, and not by what I do inside those grey walls of the cantina. These used to be a group of professions where someone who made the effort to be entertaining made a difference in things like Battle Fatigue and wound healing.
Many have said here that nobody really cares anymore if they are amused in the cantina or not. And if what is at stake is a buff that is higher in magnitude, I would certainly say yes. If I were shopping for armour, I would buy from the armoursmith with the better armour, not the armoursmith that told better jokes.
But there is nothing within Battle Fatigue that really depends on magnitude. Everyone gets their BF healed, and the only real element is time. And it is because the differences between two dancers in a Battle Fatigue game are differences specifically in the rapidity of the procedure that it gives the entertainer a reason to be entertaining. Because ifhe or shecan make the time more interesting for the patron, and make the time go by faster for the patron, then he or she can still compensate for the lack of BF healing speed through player decisions on the cantina floor, while play is in progress.
But what advice can you give a master dancer who is dancing next to a +125% master other than to get a +125% piece of loot? I may be good, but I have yet to see how a polished improvisational act at the keys can make a +25% bonus appear.