Dancer Archive

Thread: The real solution to the buffbot delimma

LyteFoot
Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:41 am
#27

It isn't really necessary to make the requirement a "comprehensible command". It can be as simple as keyboard input instead of macro. The client definitely knows the difference since it is generating the commands for a macro, it would be possible to put the source of the input in the message to the server. For all we know this is one idea they are looking at. SOE has stated that fixing the macro situation is a large task and making fundemental changes like the information coming from the client to the server could be why its so large.



Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
Isleh
Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:14 am
#28




Reachwind wrote:
Actually you are completely wrong.

Entertainer uses THE most expensive and coveted resource in the game: Time. It is for this reason that bots are created.

Entertainers can't entertain while moving around which means that to be entertaining they are buring up valuable time (oppritunity costs). If entertainers aren't entertaining when the combat player needs to heal it costs the combat player valuable time.

If you really want to solve the bot dilema all you have to do is make it valuable for players to actually entertain. If dancers and musicians could get unique item rewards and credits for actively playing the characters you would see more folks pick up the skill for enjoyment purposes.





I like all the ideas... They all have merits. Someone also mentioned premade buffs that people can buy off the open market or a vendor. eg. holodisk recordings.


Regarding real life time being the Entartainer resource... I agree 100%, I'm just going to point you to my posts in the PRO/ANTI/ATK/AFK thread. They are kinda long winded



Message Edited by Isleh on 12-16-2004 07:17 AM

Maisland
Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:44 pm
#29




SFXGenesis wrote:

1) You misunderstand what I'm saying. I think recursive macros should stay and be usable. However, I presume you don't sit idle while buffing. You probably talk to your clients and give them instruction, just like I do, as well as private tells to friends and stuff. Any of these things that YOU ACTUALLY TYPE USING YOUR KEYBOARD would prevent you from going auto-AFK.


2) Any input from the keyboard should stop you from going auto-AFK and reset the timer.


3) Setting the timer as high as 30 minutes gives someone the chance to come back, type a "." between TV commercials, and they're still connected. I could compromise this at 20 minutes, MAYBE 25...but no longer than 25, for fear of the above happening. Also, e-mails should be considered system activity because it is direct input from the keyboard of the user. Also, running (presuming you're using the keyboard or mouse clicks to move youreslf) should stop the auto-AFK timer. I mean...unless you're a total hermit...I don't know ANYONE who can go 25 minutes in game without saying ANYTHING or typing ANYTHING at all...in ANY channel or ANY command...using their keyboard. I mean...if you do...wow...lol. I'm jealous!! Let me have 25 minutes of peace, and you can take all my tells! lol


I do really appreciate your feedback though, and I hope the above clarifies what I meant more specifically.


Lots of love,

Danny




Ok, that sounds more reasonable than what I understood you as saying in your earlier post.


1) Sounds good. I do chat with clients... and since I use a 3-minute buff macro, this would be no problem at all.


2) Glad you clarified this. That bit about "type a COMPREHENSIBLE COMMAND" had me concerned.


3) Unfortunately, emails do NOT count as activity at this time... nor does typing into your /notepad. I find this extremely frustrating as it means that I basically have to either try writing any long/complicatedemails while logged out and copy/paste them in (and hope I didn't make them too long) or run a "keep alive" macro while I write such emails (and I have written some VERY LONG and complicated emails). There also seem to be other things that do not count as activity for keeping online... leading to one of the problems that plagued IDs before the timers were reduced (as stat migration customers were going LD from inactivity before the 10 minute timer was up). If they could make it so that the game recognizes ANY manual input into the system as activity, my wish for a 30 minute timer would not be as big a concern for me (though I still think 15 minutes is too short... I would be willing to compromise at your suggestion of 20 to 25 minutes). As for running, yes, I use my mouse/keyboard, but you said that moving the mouse would not count towards keeping you online. thus, one could circumvent what you propose with some kind of mechanical device to move the mouse.


Ultimately, your repeated stressing of requiring that things be TYPED was my biggest problem with your suggestions.




I survived the CU


I can not survive the NGE


Isleh
Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:51 pm
#30






Ekade wrote:

I just had an idea...


Why not have a mechanism where the Dancer has to actively select who in the group gets the buff. Much like the Group interface for space travel.


Make it so you cannot enable this via a macro command.


It may not stop people with 3rd party programs, but it would kill the regular macroers.





That would be nice.


The interfacecould alsoshow who in the group is on the/denyservice list. Maybe highlight the name in red but not prevent you from buffing them( just in case you feel kind that day or maybe it was just a misunderstanding and they are acting okay now ).


We could even eliminate the need to be in a group. A Entertainer could select someone, do a /setperformance on them and that adds them to the buff list interface. This will allow Dancers and Muscians to stay in the Entertainer group. If someone is already on a buff list, the Entertainer is informed. This would allow a number of dancers/muscians all in the same cantina and even the same group to administer buffs to different patrons.


The interface could also have a timer that starts a countdown when the Entartainer starts the buff. Each extra person could add a fraction of time to the total time needed to complete the buff.


The interface can include the asking price and if the patron accepts, funds are withdrawn from their bank.


To simplfy things, once the buff starts no one else can be added to the list.


To speed things up, Dancers and Musciand buff all the mind stats.


So....


3 Patrons come into the cantina looking for mind/focus/willpower buff. A Dancer /setperform's on each to add them to the buff list and starts the buff.


During the buff, 2 more patrons come in looking for the same. A Muscian /setperform's on each to add them to the buff list and starts the buff.


Or....


Agroup of 20 comes into the cantina and 4 muscians & dancers in the cantina all agree tobuff 5 each
Sultaana
Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:33 pm
#31



Ekade wrote:
I just had an idea...
Why not have a mechanism where the Dancer has to actively select who in the group gets the buff. Much like the Group interface for space travel.
Make it so you cannot enable this via a macro command.
It may not stop people with 3rd party programs, but it would kill the regular macroers.





5 stars! Great idea. Its not requiring any intense effort on our part, just a few clicks, so this is definetly a solution that will make buffbots harder to run and won't make buffing a new headache for us.



Sultaana Starre
Master Fencer

Ekade
Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:23 am
#32

I just had an idea...


Why not have a mechanism where the Dancer has to actively select who in the group gets the buff. Much like the Group interface for space travel.


Make it so you cannot enable this via a macro command.


It may not stop people with 3rd party programs, but it would kill the regular macroers.



www.swgtales.com/forum
Maisland
Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:26 pm
#33




Ekade wrote:

I just had an idea...


Why not have a mechanism where the Dancer has to actively select who in the group gets the buff. Much like the Group interface for space travel.


Make it so you cannot enable this via a macro command.


It may not stop people with 3rd party programs, but it would kill the regular macroers.



The interface solution is one that I have always liked. When they gave IDs an interface, I thought at once that an interface would be great to use in entertainer buffing.



I survived the CU


I can not survive the NGE


Ekade
Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:42 am
#34

OOH!


Yes yes yes.


I like your ideas. This could make the whole buffing process easier for the buffers and harder for the bots at the same time. Sounds like a win-win.


Can someone elevate these suggestions to the wish-list thingy?



www.swgtales.com/forum
Va-Mei
Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:02 pm
#35

I likethe idea offorcing the buffer to actively setperf from the raidio menu, with no text command /setperf... But I think the best ideayet is to set afk on anyone who hasn'tdone something... anything...for 10 mins, and tying /dump to afk status.

Then, all of the macro tools will continue to work as is, but you actually need to be there. No AFK healing, tumbeling, grinding, buffing... Nothing. Play the game.
Omiskopa
Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:30 pm
#36

I have a solution...

When someone runs into a cantina, and asks for a mindbuff, respond to them. (I'm not saying YOU don't respond. I'm speaking in general terms)
All too often I've gone to a cantina asking for a mindbuff and have gotten no response. I mean ALL TOO OTEN. Almost everytime.
Granted, I may be at the wrong place at the wrong time, but there always seems to be a bot offering exactly what I need.
I would much rather get my buffs from an ATK player... but they're too few and far between.

So... what to do...what to do???
Isleh
Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:51 pm
#37






Omiskopa wrote:
I have a solution...

When someone runs into a cantina, and asks for a mindbuff, respond to them. (I'm not saying YOU don't respond. I'm speaking in general terms)
All too often I've gone to a cantina asking for a mindbuff and have gotten no response. I mean ALL TOO OTEN. Almost everytime.
Granted, I may be at the wrong place at the wrong time, but there always seems to be a bot offering exactly what I need.
I would much rather get my buffs from an ATK player... but they're too few and far between.

So... what to do...what to do???



I try to greet everyone I see come into the cantina. Even the ones going to the buffbot. *shrug*. Not one of the ones running to the buffbot that I've greeted has turned around and asked me for a buff.

Rebecka
Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:51 am
#38



SFXGenesis wrote:
Hi all--
My first time posting here in the dancer forums...but I wanted to put in my two credits on this one.
I don't think that a game or really much modification to the UI is going to be a good solution. Since we control grouping and /setperform, we as live entertainers already control who we buff and when. Getting rid of group buffing would only hurt me, not help me, as I buff DWB groups all the time, and this is a GOOD source of funding for me.
This has been mentioned before, but this is honestly the best option I see for resolving this issue:
1) Modify the game coding to recognize the difference between a macroed command and a command typed by the user.
2) Remove the ability to disable Auto-AFK.
3) Set the Auto-AFK timer at 10 minutes. If the user just runs a macro, this does not count. Also, if the user just touches their mouse, this does not count. The user must type a COMPREHENSIBLE COMMAND into the system using their keyboard.
4) If no TYPED commands are logged five minutes after going auto-AFK, you are removed from the system.
5) Playing AFK MUST become a violation of the SWG Terms of Service.
Just my thoughts...and I'm only jumping in on this thread because I felt my idea wouldn't really get heard on the thread from the top of the forum. I apologize if I offend anyone by ignoring the stickied thread.
Lots of love to my fellow LIVE entertainers,
Dan






Doesn't work in game, i ain't typing my commands altho i never afk.
Not going to happen, ever.


Tho there is good suggestions of getting rid of the bots, CSR just could kick them out. It is directly causing other dancers harm so it falls to the category of ->harrasment<-.









Creature Handler with 20 uncallable pets
MDEUK
Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:45 pm
#39

I think that the easiest way to resolve the AFK entertainer problem would be to remove the ability to BUFF without some real intervention, similar to the ways you have suggested.


I think it is fair enough that, if people want to pay for an account to do so, running a character around the clock they are allowed to do so, but they should not be able to undermine others enjoyment and ability to make money by buffing.


Making it impossible to buff while you are away from the keyboard would be a great solution and would get rid of the majority of AFK buffbots!


I am really looking forward to seeing how SOE resolve this in 2005!
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