Dancer Archive
Thread: Downtrodden and very disappointed with Publish 10.
Warryyr wrote:
Cudayn wrote:
*Hands you a flower and a chainsaw*
The choice is yours to make.......
Durney
*sniffs the flower*
*tosses away the chainsaw*
They won't get rid of me THAT easily, Durney
Thanks so much. Time for a cool drink, methinks.
Woo Hoo!!!! 
If I had the power Warryyr, I would grant you Jedi status now. I think you made the right choice as I was hoping you would 
Durney
Atiknin wrote:
I was discussing this last night with another entertainer. I think that entertainers have no voice on the dev team...
One of the BEST summaries of the classes and our issues I have ever read. I feel the same way you do - when Raph left, we lost our ally. Certain devs have shown support, but not at the same level.
I think your post should be required reading for the whole dev team.
AllyaEcati wrote:
My point is a person can't reallywork towards a Jedi in whatever profession they choose. A non combat profession would make no sense in this context. To become a Jedi Initiate, you need to train in a certain amount of force sensitive skills.
Musician xp, Dance xp, and Entertainer healing convert to Force Sensitive xp. There's no combat needed for that. The problem is that there are new missions and content for combat, crafters, and healers (medic/doc) to take in the Village. They can go and do some new missions, and do some new stuff. Something different and new for a change.
Entertainers are told to do more of the same they've always done - thanks for getting into the Village, now back to the cantinas we go. The same thing we've been doing for awhile now. Nothing new to do. There's nothing new for us at all in the Villlage. There isn't even a new Cantina or Tavern we can do our thing in. Nothing. How hard is it to program a Cantina, considering all the other new stuff they've done with the Jedi system? Come on...
First of all, this should have been considered months ago by the Dev team:
This is the new Jedi system. The Village is new content, everyone's going to want to try and get in. Inside of this new Village, there are missions that can be taken which require combat (and yes, there are a LOT of combat-oriented folks in this game, which is cool) and this combat results in, you guessed it,battle fatigue. And mind wounds, of course. What a pain.
Now, theEntertainer's way of progressing to the point of being Force Sensitive involves Entertainer Healing xp being traded in for Force Sensitive xp in the Senses tree (once said Entertainer gains access to the Village). This, of course, requires a LOT of entertainer healing xp.
And what does the Village now have? A good supply of battle fatigue and mind wounds while being 5000+ meters away from the closest cantina,at theScience Outpost on Dathomir.
Logic would tell you, let's make a nice, grand new little tavern for the Village, or a cantina, so the Entertainers who have gained access to the Village can contribute their part to this new content in the game. And the Entertainers geta neat new place to hang out.
Now, another question is, where is the closest Image Design tent in relation to the Village? It's in Coronet. Why not put an Image Design Tent in the Village, providing Image Designers some FS xp?
This, as is frustratingly apparent, didn't happen. If they couldn't even have put in some missions for Entertainers to do, they could have at least given us someplace new to do the same old thing, like in the examples above. Instead, we get to ride back to the Dathomir Science Outpost cantina and play in yet another cantina that looks the same. And the Image Designers get to head back to Coronet or wherever to get their xp.
Very much a disappointment for the Entertainer community.
These skills take skill points, and you have to drop some of your current skills (assuming you've used all your sp) to pick up force skills. Once you become an Jedi Initiate all the skill boxes are either to devoted to combat or defense of oneself in combat.
We can drop skill points just like anyone else, and learn Jedi combat skills once we're Jedi Initiates, if we choose to.
To continue up these trees you must also drop regular skills in exchange for Jedi skills. There's no point to become a Jedi unless you're going to engage in combat.
Two different subjects. Yes, you can drop skills in exchange for Jedi skills - once you're a Jedi Initiiate. Once you're an Initiate, your second slot opens which one could then rerun the force sensitive missions on, and become Force Sensitive. And dedicate THAT character to combat, if one chose to.
Jedi does = combat. That's not the issue. It's my current player, who does not take part in combat, being attacked by Siths with no chance of survival - thus my current player is required to learn combat skills to get into the Village, or i get to beg combat players for help - which isn't much of a way to become "Force Sensitive." Essentially, we'll get a chance to be Force Sensitive because someone else walked us in. That's not fun at all, I mean really...
Becoming force sensitive is not the same as becoming a Jedi. Jedi is a combat profession, there's no way around it. I agree it's not fairthat crafters and entertainers without combat skillsmust also be jumped by the Sith if theyare trying to become force sensitive, but at least it doesn't seem to be an impossible task with maybe a tiny bit of skill shifting or help from friends. Lets face it, pretty much everyone is going to want that extracharacter slot. I think there's a good chance that entertainers will get the one quest required to unlock that onefs branch, even though I think itisn't a great benefit to the profession or even worth having.
I know that I won't be climbing the sense tree.
That's nice for you, but for Entertainers it's our only option. And it was my understanding that all players should have a shot at Jedi.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-17-2004 06:02 PM
Warryyr wrote:
AllyaEcati wrote:
My point is a person can't reallywork towards a Jedi in whatever profession they choose. A non combat profession would make no sense in this context. To become a Jedi Initiate, you need to train in a certain amount of force sensitive skills.
Musician xp, Dance xp, and Entertainer healing convert to Force Sensitive xp. There's no combat needed for that. The problem is that there are new missions and content for combat, crafters, and healers (medic/doc) to take in the Village. They can go and do some new missions, and do some new stuff. Something different and new for a change.
Did you read what I wrote above all of this? I said there's one questto unlockeach force sensitive branch. This would equal one quest for entertainers if you only want to purely entertain. There's no other bonus on the force sensitive trees that would be of value to a pure entertainer. Not to mention that the quests seem to run on a cycle. It's possible the entertainer quest hasn't come up yet, or maybe it's just not develeoped. However, toa player that just wants to unlock one branch, there isn't going to be an extreme amount of new content.
Entertainers are told to do more of the same they've always done - thanks for getting into the Village, now back to the cantinas we go. The same thing we've been doing for awhile now. Nothing new to do. There's nothing new for us at all in the Villlage. There isn't even a new Cantina or Tavern we can do our thing in. Nothing. How hard is it to program a Cantina, considering all the other new stuff they've done with the Jedi system? Come on...
What about all the combat people that still have to do mindless hours of grinding to level their branches...have you ever talked to someone that's leveling a jedi?
These skills take skill points, and you have to drop some of your current skills (assuming you've used all your sp) to pick up force skills. Once you become an Jedi Initiate all the skill boxes are either to devoted to combat or defense of oneself in combat.
We can drop skill points just like anyone else, and learn Jedi combat skills once we're Jedi Initiates, if we choose to.
Did you even read my post, or did you just get all angry and reply right away? I was replying to the person I quoted stating the difference between being a Jedi and being force sensitive.
To continue up these trees you must also drop regular skills in exchange for Jedi skills. There's no point to become a Jedi unless you're going to engage in combat.
Two different subjects. Yes, you can drop skills in exchange for Jedi skills - once you're a Jedi Initiiate. Once you're an Initiate, your second slot opens which one could then rerun the force sensitive missions on, and become Force Sensitive. And dedicate THAT character to combat, if one chose to.
Jedi does = combat. That's not the issue. It's my current player, who does not take part in combat, being attacked by Siths with no chance of survival - thus my current player is required to learn combat skills to get into the Village, or i get to beg combat players for help - which isn't much of a way to become "Force Sensitive." Essentially, we'll get a chance to be Force Sensitive because someone else walked us in. That's not fun at all, I mean really...
See what I said above. This was all replying to the post saying you cannot be a Jedi and your chosen profession if it's not combat. I also said I agreed that it sucks for a noncombat character to have to fight Siths.
Becoming force sensitive is not the same as becoming a Jedi. Jedi is a combat profession, there's no way around it. I agree it's not fairthat crafters and entertainers without combat skillsmust also be jumped by the Sith if theyare trying to become force sensitive, (See I said it right here) but at least it doesn't seem to be an impossible task with maybe a tiny bit of skill shifting or help from friends. Lets face it, pretty much everyone is going to want that extracharacter slot. I think there's a good chance that entertainers will get the one quest required to unlock that onefs branch, even though I think itisn't a great benefit to the profession or even worth having.
I know that I won't be climbing the sense tree.
That's nice for you, but for Entertainers it's our only option. And it was my understanding that all players should have a shot at Jedi.
It's not your only option. I'm a master dancer. I will opt out of force sensitivity if I choose not to play around with jedi.
Warryyr wrote:
First of all, this should have been considered months ago by the Dev team:
This is the new Jedi system. The Village is new content, everyone's going to want to try and get in. Inside of this new Village, there are missions that can be taken which require combat (and yes, there are a LOT of combat-oriented folks in this game, which is cool) and this combat results in, you guessed it,battle fatigue. And mind wounds, of course. What a pain.
Now, theEntertainer's way of progressing to the point of being Force Sensitive involves Entertainer Healing xp being traded in for Force Sensitive xp in the Senses tree (once said Entertainer gains access to the Village). This, of course, requires a LOT of entertainer healing xp.
And what does the Village now have? A good supply of battle fatigue and mind wounds while being 5000+ meters away from the closest cantina,at theScience Outpost on Dathomir.
Logic would tell you, let's make a nice, grand new little tavern for the Village, or a cantina, so the Entertainers who have gained access to the Village can contribute their part to this new content in the game. And the Entertainers geta neat new place to hang out.
Now, another question is, where is the closest Image Design tent in relation to the Village? It's in Coronet. Why not put an Image Design Tent in the Village, providing Image Designers some FS xp?
This, as is frustratingly apparent, didn't happen. If they couldn't even have put in some missions for Entertainers to do, they could have at least given us someplace new to do the same old thing, like in the examples above. Instead, we get to ride back to the Dathomir Science Outpost cantina and play in yet another cantina that looks the same. And the Image Designers get to head back to Coronet or wherever to get their xp.
Very much a disappointment for the Entertainer community.
Just to play devil's advocate...you edited while I was replying, but is the village really a hang out? It seems that it's requires running some type of mission, leaving, and then returning. I would compare it to the Emperor's Retreat or Jabba's. I've tried to heal and buff in the retreat, and it just doesn't work. Idon't think they intentionally left out entertainers, they are supposedworking on the hut casino one of these days.
Atiknin wrote:
...Unfortunately, Raph left, for reasons never really explained....
He was promoted to "Sony Online Entertainment Chief Creative Officer." In theory, that would mean he's the boss of all the devs now. He's in some office in another state, though.
I can agree with everybody, except for one thing: I do think the path to force sensitivity should be risky. Your pacifist character isn't off learning to become a florist, here. This pacifist is dealing with people who have been hunted down and nearly erradicated, and wants to become one of them.
Regarding your othercomments involving the Jedi system, I think we're not agreeing on how Jedi Initiate level and unlocking is achieved, and how Force Sensitivity works. An entertainer, once they enter the village, does not need to do any combat to earn FS xp - they can trade in Musician/Dancer/Entertainer Healing xp for it. But, we have no place to do our thing - no cantina or tavern. We have no new missions at all. And that'd be a prime place for a cantina or image design tent.
AllyaEcati wrote:
Musician xp, Dance xp, and Entertainer healing convert to Force Sensitive xp. There's no combat needed for that. The problem is that there are new missions and content for combat, crafters, and healers (medic/doc) to take in the Village. They can go and do some new missions, and do some new stuff. Something different and new for a change.
Did you read what I wrote above all of this? I said there's one questto unlockeach force sensitive branch. This would equal one quest for entertainers if you only want to purely entertain. There's no other bonus on the force sensitive trees that would be of value to a pure entertainer. Not to mention that the quests seem to run on a cycle. It's possible the entertainer quest hasn't come up yet, or maybe it's just not develeoped.
Phase 3 Quest – Reflex: Raiding Party
Phase 3 Quest – Combat: Armed Group
Phase 3 Quest – Medic/Survey: Construction Foreman
Phase 3 Quest – Crafting: Engineer
Nothing too promising for Entertainers here, I see a theme - Combat, Crafting, and Healing Medic/Doctor
However, toa player that just wants to unlock one branch, there isn't going to be an extreme amount of new content.
But there was some effort for new content. We didn't even get that.
This is not meant to be an entertainer publish it's a jedi publish. As much as everyone else wants to see their professions fixed, jedi are getting the attention once again.Everyone else is getting the same xp grind they always had. It's still on test, sothere still might be an entertainermission to come!
Warryyr wrote:
Regarding your othercomments involving the Jedi system, I think we're not agreeing on how Jedi Initiate level and unlocking is achieved, and how Force Sensitivity works. An entertainer, once they enter the village, does not need to do any combat to earn FS xp - they can trade in Musician/Dancer/Entertainer Healing xp for it. But, we have no place to do our thing - no cantina or tavern. We have no new missions at all. And that'd be a prime place for a cantina or image design tent.
Groovymarlin wrote:
One of the BEST summaries of the classes and our issues I have ever read. I feel the same way you do - when Raph left, we lost our ally.
Thank you
JohnMarble wrote:
He was promoted to "Sony Online Entertainment Chief Creative Officer." In theory, that would mean he's the boss of all the devs now. He's in some office in another state, though.
That was the explanation given when he left, though his bio is not listed on the SOE corporate website. I always thought Chief Creative Officer was a curious title, and the timing was odd -- I mean, two months after launch when bugs were still rampant? Admittedly, the fact that he's not listed means nothing -- SOE wouldn't be the only software developer to have a poor online presence. Perhaps he's just off developing the next big game at SOE. But if that's true: Raph, come back and save us!
Gramon Blatt, ME/MM
edited to correct attribution of the second quote
Message Edited by Atiknin on 08-17-2004 08:50 PM
AllyaEcati wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
Regarding your othercomments involving the Jedi system, I think we're not agreeing on how Jedi Initiate level and unlocking is achieved, and how Force Sensitivity works. An entertainer, once they enter the village, does not need to do any combat to earn FS xp - they can trade in Musician/Dancer/Entertainer Healing xp for it. But, we have no place to do our thing - no cantina or tavern. We have no new missions at all. And that'd be a prime place for a cantina or image design tent.
This is not meant to be an entertainer publish it's a jedi publish. As much as everyone else wants to see their professions fixed, jedi are getting the attention once again.Everyone else is getting the same xp grind they always had. Yep, but this Jedi publish was supposed to open up Force Sensitivity to the game's playerbase. The Village is the entrance to becoming Force Sensitive and working towards being a Jedi. Entertainers get no content in this at all, once we enter the Village. Every other playstyle got some new content - not fixes, but new content - crafters, combat, and med folks. We don't want fixes, we want what everyone else of every other playstyle got - some kind of bonus when entering the Village.
Upon entering the Village, the Entertainer has no function. There is no bonus for getting there, except accessing the NPC that lets you convert Entertainment Healing xp, Musician xp, or Dancer xp to Force Sensitive xp. Every other profession, at this stage, gets a new mission and something new to do in the Village.
What do Musicians, Dancers, and Image Designers get upon entering the Village? Nothing. There's no new cantina in the village, nonew missions, no image designtents. Entertainers, Musicians, Image Designers,and Dancers get to ride 5000+ meters back to Dathomir Science Outpost to grind out Force Sensitive xp in the same place they always have.
It's still on test, sothere still might be an entertainermission to come!
I certainly hope so, but Phase 3 just started, and here are the missions:
Phase 3 Quest – Reflex: Raiding Party
Phase 3 Quest – Combat: Armed Group
Phase 3 Quest – Medic/Survey: Construction Foreman
Phase 3 Quest – Crafting: Engineer
Doubtful anything for Entertainers will show up. I'm hoping this is all just a bug, but the theme is clear - Crafter, Combat, and Medic/Doc missions. Nothing for Entertainers. I really appreciate your perspective on all this, thanks for the replies.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-17-2004 07:09 PM