Dancer Archive
Thread: Downtrodden and very disappointed with Publish 10.
Warryyr
Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:22 pm
#40
JohnMarble wrote:
I can agree with everybody, except for one thing: I do think the path to force sensitivity should be risky. Your pacifist character isn't off learning to become a florist, here. This pacifist is dealing with people who have been hunted down and nearly erradicated, and wants to become one of them.
Yeah, true.
But, we're not talking about becoming a Jedi at this point.
We're talking about becoming Force Sensitive. Anakin (Ol' Vader himself) was Force Sensitive, and he was taken in by the Jedi to be trained in the ways of the Force. Now, I know little kids can be hellraisers, but I don't think he'd made many enemies at that point.
The way to being a Jedi should be very risky. Being Force Sensitive is something very personal and introspective. You've not learned anything of your abilities, you're just sensing something different about you. Once you gain Jedi Initiate, risk is very much important. When you first learn of your Force Sensitivity, I don't think combat is something that should be thrown at us. We should at least be able to pursue our FS without getting attacked without a way to defend ourselves.
Tarnak_Archvold
Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:38 pm
#41
When I desisted to join a few friends who was playing SWG, I knew that there was a few things I should never expect from any gaming company. The first was to be entertained, I knew that is I was to have any fun in SWG it have to make t my self, I had to look to my friends and from the interaction with them fun would be created for all around us. I knew that I should expect bugs and large hole in the code, and ever shifting game mechanics.
However I expected the SWG to have a thick fictional backdrop... after all there is a Pen and Paper RPG that have LOADS of details, and there are many books that have lot of culture. This lack of a starwars feeling was my only major disappointment about the game, but it was not why I started to play.
I am here to play along side my friends, to help build a community, and to make my own fun. I have learned to not expect anything to have any reverence to Starwars, and I have learned to generally shrug of any changes SOE make as soon as they hit live. A lot less stress that way, just going with the flow.
But foolishly I had expected to be able to get a 2nd character by doing the FS stuff and then drop it again. Now I have given up on that as well.
If SOE would just give us tools to create contend and events, then I would be happy. If we would just be given to tools to isolate our self from the elements of the player population that are harmful to our abilities to have fun, then I would have nothing to worry about. And if they would at least tell the combatants that entertainers are just as imported individuals as them, then I would know that I had a future in this game.
- Playing the game despite of the devs best efforts to destroy it.
However I expected the SWG to have a thick fictional backdrop... after all there is a Pen and Paper RPG that have LOADS of details, and there are many books that have lot of culture. This lack of a starwars feeling was my only major disappointment about the game, but it was not why I started to play.
I am here to play along side my friends, to help build a community, and to make my own fun. I have learned to not expect anything to have any reverence to Starwars, and I have learned to generally shrug of any changes SOE make as soon as they hit live. A lot less stress that way, just going with the flow.
But foolishly I had expected to be able to get a 2nd character by doing the FS stuff and then drop it again. Now I have given up on that as well.
If SOE would just give us tools to create contend and events, then I would be happy. If we would just be given to tools to isolate our self from the elements of the player population that are harmful to our abilities to have fun, then I would have nothing to worry about. And if they would at least tell the combatants that entertainers are just as imported individuals as them, then I would know that I had a future in this game.
- Playing the game despite of the devs best efforts to destroy it.
Warryyr
Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:45 am
#42
Folks, I need some cheering up.
Having resigned myself to the fact that I will never be a Jedi, I'm now waiting for others to come to the same disappointing conclusion. First, the sheer amount of grinding necessary is just plain stupid. I mean, it'd be nice to have that crazy surplus xp from Entertaining be worth something. But, the insane amount of xp makes me cringe.
My biggest disappointments with Publish 10 as an Entertainer:
1) Combat is required to gain entry to the Village, where you begin your path towards being a Jedi. Combat is required for the missions (unless you can Heal or Survey - but if you are truly an Entertainer, you're SOL buddy). Non-combatentertainers have been given no consideration in any of this, which I find inexcusable -given the development time that was spent on this Jedi farce, some miniscule thought should have been given to those of us who deserve just as much of a shot at getting a Jedi. Dropping skills to learn combat skills should not be required - what if a combat player had to drop Master Rifleman and learn Novice Entertainer and Musicianship IV to get into the Village. They would raise holy hell. I thought that this system was supposed to PREVENT people from having to screw up their characters with professions they didn't want. Hello?!?! Relying on friends being around when the Old Man randomly shows up is not a good way to go. If there isn't anyone around, good luck - you'll have Siths after you wherever you turn. Besides, I thought the path of Force Sensitivity was a deeply personal journey frought with mystery.
2) Assuming you've gained entry to the Village somehow, you now are faced with one horribly disappointing situation. There islittle you can do in there. There are quests for Combat, Crafting, and Medic Healing. We're SOL. Stand around and look like an idiot while others romp all around the Village, doing things you can only imagine would be fun. Stare at people. Think about what it would be like to have content and fun added to your game. Imagine what they'll do with their Jedi. Take missions like running a patrol, only to have Sith Shadow pirates spawn in front of you and whomp you good. For future reference, playing Ballad on a Fizzz will NOT kill Sith Shadow pirates - it will NOT. They don't even listen, they just incap you.
3) The Entertainer is no longera support class within the Village, we're not even given an opportunity to help others with their Force Sensitivity missions. Let's say you decide that since you're unable to do anything in the Village mission-wise, you decide one way you can help people is to heal up their Battle Fatigue while THEY run missions and pursue a Jedi. Guess again, there's nowhere to heal Battle Fatigue or even buff. Once again, we're SOL. The fun just never stops in this Village. Lots of thought put into it, just nothing thought about regarding us, really. It's painfully obvious how we were thrown in at the last minute, like a pity gesture.
Here'ssome little snippets from a forum thread soliciting ideas for whether the path to Force Sensitivity should be known or mysterious (remember, this is regarding just becoming Force Sensitive, NOT becoming Jedi, and is dated early July):
Suba (5th reply on the 1st page): "What i think is important though is that we make sure that The Non Combatants of SWG do not get left out. There does need to be 2 Series of Quests. One for those Who are combatants and one for those who entertain or just craft."
Fire-spray: "Each starting class has a different quest. Aka. Entertainers will have a different quest than Marksman who will have it different from scouts etc etc."
Jerry076: "It should be something that no one can grind, but that everyone can do. You don't play specifically for a FSCS, your normal playstyle determines whether or not you get it. Then the path from FS to jedi can be long and arduous"
NikkiT: "Great idea, Fire-Spray. Some epic quests for each profession type to trigger force sensitivity."
Meplorium: "As for quests or force sensitivity or the way to become force sensitive, please please take into concideration the playing habits of your customers. "
WolfofWar: "It shouldnt be so much of a mystery as it should be more funand intruiguing. Let it differ from person to person ( maybe a random jedi spawn you have to find on some planet to start the quest or something) and let all professions be able to do it. Alot of people are gonna be mad if its solely a Combat oriented quest system."
ToppDog: "Whichever way you go, it should not involve grinding random professions. The game was advertised as being able to become Jedi regardless of your profession, so that entertainers & crafters could also achieve FS. Missions & spawns should reflect this in some manner so players can keep their desired templates if they choose to."
Kal_Silas: "Keep the Path known. Make it fair to everyone so that the Path can be persued if a person so desires."
R07Krayt: "It should also not be a combat only system. A doctor should have just as much chance to unlock as a BH. You also need to discourage a powergame mindset when working towards force sesnsitive and Jedi Initiate."
JediNewb: "This system should also, as has been mentioned, bear in mind that not ALL players are combat oriented, and the quests for these player types should reflect that."
superstarwars: "I think that some of the people should give missions, and that you should initially designate a path for these missions to follow(entertainer, combat, crafter). "
And, those are only from the first 5 pages of that thread - requesting how gaining Force Sensitivity should be handled. If the Devs cannot read, then that's a good reason for ending up with the game mechanics as they now exist (and most likely will exist, honestly there is NO time to develop, code, and test new parts of the FS quests).
If they, however, CAN read, then their only motivation is to ALIENATE and DISAPPOINT every player of every profession who is not represented in the Force Sensitivity quests. And they have successfully destroyed the chances of an Entertainer getting into the Village without help. Why are we made to feel inadequate and unskilled enough to even START our journey towards Force Sensitivity?
This is, plain and simple, an unacceptable snubbing of Entertainers. And I, for one, am totally sick of being treated like crap by the Devs.
It is unacceptable to be treated like crap by the other players of this game, mocked by other players who create PC NPC's to buffbot next to us and steal our money and enjoyment in the game, forgotten about consistently in new content time and time again.
The conditions dealt out to the Entertainers in this game are unacceptable. Plain and simple.
I was told I could pursue a Jedi. Yet, when I see the Village, Entertainers are nowhere to be found. No one cares. Hell, the Devs don't care.
Sure, I could enlist help from friends to gain entry to the Village. But once I'm there, it's painfully obvious - I DON'T BELONG THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
*hangs head in disgust and sorrow*
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-17-2004 12:52 PM
NewJedi
Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:02 am
#43
OK, thanks for those clarifications, Warryyr. I'm still hearing conflicting things about whether any combat badges are required to get the visit from the old man, but the consensus seems to be "no." That said,I know one Dancer with 100 badges who still only feels a slight connection to the Force on TC, so who knows.
As for the attack by the two Sith, again I'm hearing conflicting reports. My artisan friend on TC2 just had newbie marksman skills, and she seemed to think the attackers were weenies. But I think she also had a friend or two with her to protect her. I dunno, once you get the visit from the old man, it doesn't seem to me such an imposition to venture outside with a few combat friends once or twice to draw the attackers. In fact, it could add a little excitement to the life of the entertainer. If that's the only combat-related obstacle to becoming a Jedi, and if the attack happens at a predictable time, I really don't have a problem with it. Asking us to find strong friends once seems reasonable to me. I would feel differently if the attack could come at any time over the space of a year, but I'm fine with it if it comes directly after the visit from the old man.
No question about it: the devs seem to have forgotten us when it came to parcelling out FS skills. I haven't seen the FS trees lately, but when I last saw them on TC2 they contained little for us. A big boost to buff duration would be a start.
Finally, I agree with your view that Jedi can and should be combatants. In my view, it's perfectly reasonable that Jedi be combat-oriented. That's how they invariably appear in continuity.
Warryyr
Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:19 am
#44
NewJedi wrote:
OK, thanks for those clarifications, Warryyr. I'm still hearing conflicting things about whether any combat badges are required to get the visit from the old man, but the consensus seems to be "no." That said,I know one Dancer with 100 badges who still only feels a slight connection to the Force on TC, so who knows.
As for the attack by the two Sith, again I'm hearing conflicting reports. My artisan friend on TC2 just had newbie marksman skills, and she seemed to think the attackers were weenies. But I think she also had a friend or two with her to protect her. I dunno, once you get the visit from the old man, it doesn't seem to me such an imposition to venture outside with a few combat friends once or twice to draw the attackers. In fact, it could add a little excitement to the life of the entertainer. If that's the only combat-related obstacle to becoming a Jedi, and if the attack happens at a predictable time, I really don't have a problem with it. Asking us to find strong friends once seems reasonable to me. I would feel differently if the attack could come at any time over the space of a year, but I'm fine with it if it comes directly after the visit from the old man.
No question about it: the devs seem to have forgotten us when it came to parcelling out FS skills. I haven't seen the FS trees lately, but when I last saw them on TC2 they contained little for us. A big boost to buff duration would be a start.
Finally, I agree with your view that Jedi can and should be combatants. In my view, it's perfectly reasonable that Jedi be combat-oriented. That's how they invariably appear in continuity.
Yeah, I mean I'm just really disappointed that our first Force Sensitivity experience will basically be, "Ha, you have no combat skills so you die now, get a friend with real skills to give you a piggyback ride into the Village, oh unworthy one."
I think it could've been handled better than making us feel so inadequate and useless.
That aside, here's my biggest beef about this whole thing, NewJedi. There is little to no bonus for Entertainers who gain access to the Village.
For example, however you do it, you get in the Village. What do you have now? Missions you can't do. The only benefit is now you can access an NPC to convert your xp to FS xp. Everyone else gets to run around and have new content, we don't get anything. Not even a stinking cantina. Who wouldn't want a neat, brand new little hole-in-the-wall cantina to play in after you've made it into the Village? Someplace NEW to play would've been sweet. But, no.
We getpretty much no bonus for enterting the Village. We gain access to an NPC to convert xp. Whoopity-doo. Everyone else runs around having fun, we can't do any of the NPC's missions. I literally stood around in the Village for a 1/2 hour, livid, because all i could think was, "There is NOTHING in here for Entertainers. Nothing at all. My option is to ride 5000m back to Dathomir Science Outpost and do the same old thing in the same old cantina setting. How disappointing."
I'm sorry, but that's really pathetic. They couldn't even be bothered to give us a new cantina, or Image Design salon, something new. We wereexcluded - BIG TIME.
Why do we suck so bad. Tell me, why. Why are treated like **edit** in this game. What a joke.
JohnMarble
Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:39 am
#45
I noticed on the character generator terminals that mind buffs last for three hours. I wonder if they're going to change that? That would be nice.
Also, there's a quest reward in the village, a crystal with unlimited use that gives +900 mind buffs for a little over an hour. I didn't get it myself, somebody just told me about it. O well.
Warryyr
Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:26 pm
#46
JohnMarble wrote:
I noticed on the character generator terminals that mind buffs last for three hours. I wonder if they're going to change that? That would be nice.
Also, there's a quest reward in the village, a crystal with unlimited use that gives +900 mind buffs for a little over an hour. I didn't get it myself, somebody just told me about it. O well.
Umm, if that's true I'm going to hit the roof. But I'd like to see it, first. And then I'll freak out.
StarWorker
Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:51 pm
#47
I rolled a pure crafter/entertainer (master musician/master entertainer/master tailor)on TC2, and set out on the same journey as others have here.
I did not take ANY combat skills at all, but I did get the buffs the frog offered.
I wandered off, and soon met the old man that gave me a crystal I should protect.
I then went to set up some factories, so I could make some tailor components, but got attacked by two sith shadow outlaws. I whipped out my cdef pistol and started shooting and running, until the one that followed me died. I then went back to my factory to find the other looking for me there. I finally got him as well. Buffs saved me clearly here (I had no armor on at this time, just some fancy clothing).
Got a waypoint to a camp from one of the sith shadow outlaws, and went to them. I logged out and logged in again, and thus lost my buffs. An excellent testing option. How would I fare against these without any buffs or armor? Well, I started shooting my cdef pistol, but it soon become painfully obvious that I would not last long enough, so I ended up in the cloning center. Not giving up, I went and got some buffs again, and then proceeded to the camp again. Same story, lasting a bit longer this time though.
Ok, so one final test: I go down and get me buffs and a compite suit: This time they hardly harm me at all, and I can go prone and just wait it out. It takes me well over 2 hours to kill two of them with my cdef carbine (I have no specials to use, so it is extremely boring).
This sith camp needs testing with some cheaper armor as well, it would be interesting to see if you could keep up with bone armor, chitin armor or mabari armor, which is more probable outfits for an entertainer, costwise than a full composite.
The best thing would be if they made the following change to the quest: If they detect that the character has no combat skill to match the siths, you could try to lure them away, and run back and steal some notes from within the tent or something like that. There need to be something nearby you can draw them against, so that they loose interest in you for a while, so you can get back to the tent and grab the notes, before they return. I believe that a quest alternative like this would be suitable for both pure crafters and pure entertainers, and still carry some risk (as you risk being detected, or not being able to lure them away)
As for the confusion on how the Old Man appears, this confusion is easy to solve:
On TestCenter1, you need a lot of badges (POI, themeparks, race tracks, who knows) to get force sensitive. You check your force status with the /checkforcestatus command.
To speed up testing, this part of the FS quests are skipped. Instead, everyone that goes some distance away from the frog terminals, will get a visit by the old man instantly.
On Live servers however, it will take a lot of exploring to get the old man to visit you. The excact path to force sensitivity is not known, althoug a lot of data is collected, and badges seems to play a large part.
Message Edited by StarWorker on 08-18-2004 11:09 PM
NewJedi
Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:13 pm
#48
That's the first I've heard of a "mind buff crystal." Does it buff Mind, Focus, or Willpower? If only Mind, then I would think Dancers would be especially concerned about it. Anyone have a screenshots of this item?
Warryyr, I'm also concerned that there are no entertainer- or politician-oriented quests in the village. As I understand it, there are medic, crafter, and combat-oriented quests, but nothing with us in mind. I suppose most of us have at least some skill in one of those other areas, but it still bothers me that there's no set of quests made just for us. We all here have come up with dozens of fun ideas for quests, ranging from espionage to puzzles to run-the-gauntlet to performance. I'd like to see something for us in the village. Other entertainer Correspondents have already raised this with the devs, and I've chimed in.
Warplex
Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:13 pm
#49
Yes, there are some big baddies in the 3rd part (destroy sith camp). Developer ignorance aside, New Jedi: Have you raised hell in the correspondant fourms about this? If not: WHY?!?!? If yes (having been with these fourms for so long, i'm guessing its yes), what did you say? Any responses as to a remedy for this problem?
Warryyr
Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:35 pm
#50
I think an interesting way to handle the Siths (for Entertainers) is to be able to start dancing or playing music, and they watch/listen to you. You could then select a Converse option, which would lead you in a conversation where you could say, "I'm just a simple Entertainer, I know nothing of the Force." If you select the right answers, they leave you alone but you "pick up" a datapad dropped by one of them. Similar deal with the next Sith camp.
As StarWorker said, even if we can kill them with a CDEF carbine, it's painfully slow and very boring. There is very little in the experience. That's just not fun at all.
I'm still in disbelief that the Devs gave Entertainers, Politicians, and Merchants nothing in this. They couldn't even be bothered to put a new Cantina in the VIllage, or an Image Design tent (maybe a bigger one?). What do we gain by entering it? Access to an NPC to trade in our Entertainer xp for Force Sensitive xp. Whoopie. Then it's back to the Science Outpost on Dathomir, to find some cantina to grind away in and get your Jedi.
I was sure looking forward to seeing a new cantina in the Village when I got there, I wanted to start playing and heal up some mission-weary folks. There was nothing.
Warryyr
Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:41 pm
#51
NewJedi wrote:
Warryyr, I'm also concerned that there are no entertainer- or politician-oriented quests in the village. As I understand it, there are medic, crafter, and combat-oriented quests, but nothing with us in mind. I suppose most of us have at least some skill in one of those other areas, but it still bothers me that there's no set of quests made just for us. We all here have come up with dozens of fun ideas for quests, ranging from espionage to puzzles to run-the-gauntlet to performance. I'd like to see something for us in the village. Other entertainer Correspondents have already raised this with the devs, and I've chimed in.
Thank you, NewJedi. I've just been so disappointed by this whole experience. Why do they keep making us the whiners, man? I don't like to whine, God I wish I didn't have to, but what a let down on this Village thing.
Why the hell do they have us in this game, if they're only going to hurt our feelings and turn us into the bad guys, always asking for stuff. Why do we have to keep asking in the first place?
And why did it never occur to the Devs to just put our new Entertainer Quests in the Village? People have done them, and not gotten the reward. They've been tested (and sound like they work OK) but they sit in limbo while we get no content. Spawn a Theater with the quests in the Village. Spawn a cantina. Bingo, Bang-o - Entertainer FS Quests. And, you'll know an Entertainer has something "special" about them when they play their new song or dance.
As for Politicians and Merchants, well, I'm disappointed in the Devs that they've given us all no new content. Again, quite a let down.
Warryyr
Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:50 pm
#52
StarWorker wrote:
I rolled a pure crafter/entertainer (master musician/master entertainer/master tailor)on TC2, and set out on the same journey as others have here.
I did not take ANY combat skills at all, but I did get the buffs the frog offered.
I wandered off, and soon met the old man that gave me a crystal I should protect.
I then went to set up some factories, so I could make some tailor components, but got attacked by two sith shadow outlaws. I whipped out my cdef pistol and started shooting and running, until the one that followed me died. I then went back to my factory to find the other looking for me there. I finally got him as well. Buffs saved me clearly here (I had no armor on at this time, just some fancy clothing).
Got a waypoint to a camp from one of the sith shadow outlaws, and went to them. I logged out and logged in again, and thus lost my buffs. An excellent testing option. How would I fare against these without any buffs or armor? Well, I started shooting my cdef pistol, but it soon become painfully obvious that I would not last long enough, so I ended up in the cloning center. How much would it have sucked if you were a Merchant, and were delivering some new armor or weapons to someone, and you died and they got decayed. What if you have a bunch of nice sliced weapons on you, ready for a vendor or to sell, and they get decayed. Or maybe some armor. Or a bunch of outfits you'd just put into seperate backpacks. That's not cool at all...Not giving up, I went and got some buffs again, and then proceeded to the camp again. Same story, lasting a bit longer this time though.
Ok, so one final test: I go down and get me buffs and a compite suit: This time they hardly harm me at all, and I can go prone and just wait it out. It takes me well over 2 hours to kill two of them with my cdef carbine (I have no specials to use, so it is extremely boring).
This sith camp needs testing with some cheaper armor as well, it would be interesting to see if you could keep up with bone armor, chitin armor or mabari armor, which is more probable outfits for an entertainer, costwise than a full composite.
The best thing would be if they made the following change to the quest: If they detect that the character has no combat skill to match the siths, you could try to lure them away, and run back and steal some notes from within the tent or something like that. There need to be something nearby you can draw them against, so that they loose interest in you for a while, so you can get back to the tent and grab the notes, before they return. I believe that a quest alternative like this would be suitable for both pure crafters and pure entertainers, and still carry some risk (as you risk being detected, or not being able to lure them away)
As for the confusion on how the Old Man appears, this confusion is easy to solve:
On TestCenter1, you need a lot of badges (POI, themeparks, race tracks, who knows) to get force sensitive. You check your force status with the /checkforcestatus command.
To speed up testing, this part of the FS quests are skipped. Instead, everyone that goes some distance away from the frog terminals, will get a visit by the old man instantly.
On Live servers however, it will take a lot of exploring to get the old man to visit you. The excact path to force sensitivity is not known, althoug a lot of data is collected, and badges seems to play a large part.
Message Edited by StarWorker on 08-18-2004 11:09 PM