Dancer Archive

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Kyree-Sunrunner wrote:
Hmmm. Perhaps raising the payoff on the mission terminals to bring them in line with master level combat terminal payouts would work? Base the payout on the level of dancer? Maybe have high level missions that you can only get as a group?

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We have always needed a system that gave us two things;

1) Good money equal to what a combat player can earn in the same time period based on our skill as an entetrainer.
2) Bobble rewards. (A system where we can earn items like house deco, skill enhancers or rare wearables from our skill as an entertainer just the same as a combat player).

As long as our game play makes us the beggar class people will treat us like the beggar class.

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LyteFoot wrote:
This is fine Panthu but I thought buffs were put in the game to give us some way to make credits. Some people tip purely for entertaining but not many so what else do we have to "sell"?

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No, /denyService was put in for us to make credits.

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Else-Whira wrote:

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Kyree-Sunrunner wrote:
Hmmm. Perhaps raising the payoff on the mission terminals to bring them in line with master level combat terminal payouts would work? Base the payout on the level of dancer? Maybe have high level missions that you can only get as a group?

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We have always needed a system that gave us two things;

1) Good money equal to what a combat player can earn in the same time period based on our skill as an entetrainer.
2) Bobble rewards. (A system where we can earn items like house deco, skill enhancers or rare wearables from our skill as an entertainer just the same as a combat player).

As long as our game play makes us the beggar class people will treat us like the beggar class.

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Why? As a pure entertainer I have never needed more than 160k over the course of 2 years. And that's with the inclusion of new clothes and whatnot (until I got my cantina set up. That costs money, but now it pays for itself)

A combat player has to keep himself with armor and weapon, he also needs to keep his vehicles in shape and keep himself healed and buffed.

As a pure entertainer, I only need new clothes occasionally, and I don't need a house to store loot in as I don't go out to get loot.

If you're a pure entertainer that pulls in as much money as a combat professions, then you'll be sitting on a stack of moey that's growing faster than you can spend it.

Entertainer:

Nice wardrobe: 25k (top, and usually clothes get donated)

A session with an ID to get my look and stats just right 35k

Total training 120k roughly (assuming I don't get any training from any other player)

It's when we start branchig out from Dancing that we acrue more expenses.

Hehe I use a lot more money than that and I have never been anything other than an entertainer. My wardrobe cost much more that 25k and that's even with having several tailor friends.

Then I need money for transportation to gigs.

On top of that I own a house like most people and that wasn't cheap and neither was the furniture to decorate it, not to mention the constant rent costs. I also have a second house for my extensive wardrobe and another house out on Dantooine so I don't have to trek all the way back to Naboo after late night gigs there.

Then I participate in a raffle every week to help support live entertainers and that's 12k every week.

Just because we don't need armor or guns doesn't mean that we deserve less money and shouldn't be able to have the same amenities that combatants have.

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Ihareo wrote:
Why? As a pure entertainer I have never needed more than 160k over the course of 2 years. And that's with the inclusion of new clothes and whatnot (until I got my cantina set up. That costs money, but now it pays for itself)

A combat player has to keep himself with armor and weapon, he also needs to keep his vehicles in shape and keep himself healed and buffed.

As a pure entertainer, I only need new clothes occasionally, and I don't need a house to store loot in as I don't go out to get loot.

If you're a pure entertainer that pulls in as much money as a combat professions, then you'll be sitting on a stack of moey that's growing faster than you can spend it.

Entertainer:

Nice wardrobe: 25k (top, and usually clothes get donated)

A session with an ID to get my look and stats just right 35k

Total training 120k roughly (assuming I don't get any training from any other player)

It's when we start branchig out from Dancing that we acrue more expenses.

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Profit for profit. Entertainers like going to the trade forum and buying expensive bobbles just the same as combat players. Certain items that myself and quite a few of my fellow dancer friends covet are currently priced well into the millions (things like rare house deco, night sister armour bicep, skill tapes, and ADKs for our wearable rares) the only viable way for me to get them right now is to pick up a blaster or a craft both of which require me to sacrifice my entertainer game play time.

I have two characters one is a rifleman the other a dancer/ID/merchant. In one hour with my rifleman I can easily earn a consistant 400k while spending less than 50k in materials (food, armour, buffs and weapon.)

My dancer doing the missions and picking up tips earns a consistant 50k with a good hour netting MAYBE 300k (when I am super lucky). If I want to dance nonstop I need to use food or doc buffs (only human characters have the ability to set thier stats to not require them and my character is a twi'lek).

Again, we aren't asking to be the most wealthly profession, just equality. Profit for profit. A way to earn money with our game play at the same rate a crafter or combat player can min for min.

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Etdentarie wrote:
Hehe I use a lot more money than that and I have never been anything other than an entertainer. My wardrobe cost much more that 25k and that's even with having several tailor friends.

Then I need money for transportation to gigs.

On top of that I own a house like most people and that wasn't cheap and neither was the furniture to decorate it, not to mention the constant rent costs. I also have a second house for my extensive wardrobe and another house out on Dantooine so I don't have to trek all the way back to Naboo after late night gigs there.

Then I participate in a raffle every week to help support live entertainers and that's 12k every week.

Just because we don't need armor or guns doesn't mean that we deserve less money and shouldn't be able to have the same amenities that combatants have.

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Fair enough, but my point is the same. We don't need as much money as combat professions do.

I guess I should ask the question istead of assuming... Do you need 400k per week?

(150k a week for 10 buff sessions, 150k a week for new armor, about 50k per week for weapons)

Do we need it? Probably not.

Do we deserve it because we are just as viable a profession as any other? Most definately

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Ihareo wrote:

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Etdentarie wrote:
Hehe I use a lot more money than that and I have never been anything other than an entertainer. My wardrobe cost much more that 25k and that's even with having several tailor friends.

Then I need money for transportation to gigs.

On top of that I own a house like most people and that wasn't cheap and neither was the furniture to decorate it, not to mention the constant rent costs. I also have a second house for my extensive wardrobe and another house out on Dantooine so I don't have to trek all the way back to Naboo after late night gigs there.

Then I participate in a raffle every week to help support live entertainers and that's 12k every week.

Just because we don't need armor or guns doesn't mean that we deserve less money and shouldn't be able to have the same amenities that combatants have.

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Fair enough, but my point is the same. We don't need as much money as combat professions do.

I guess I should ask the question istead of assuming... Do you need 400k per week?

(150k a week for 10 buff sessions, 150k a week for new armor, about 50k per week for weapons)

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What Freya is saying, is that our "net" profit is far, far, far lower than the net profit of a combat player. It truly doesn't matter if a combat player spends 400K a week. They have the opportunity off of that 400K a week, to multiply that expenditure by ten times (about 4 million) in the form of pure profit.

Even if Entertainers cost nothing at all to maintain, it's highly unlikely that the net of their efforts will be anything close to 4 million.

Nobody needs 400K per week. We want it. Just like the combat players. And we deserve it. Just like the combat players. We want to buy expensive items that have nothing to do with our profession. Just like the combat players.

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Etdentarie wrote:
Do we need it? Probably not.

Do we deserve it because we are just as viable a profession as any other? Most definately

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now THAT I can get behind!!

Well, I had a big thing typed up and like so many other times it got too busy at work and I had to abandon it. /sigh

Anyway, I mostly just want to echo what Drygo said -- I never picked up this profession to be some sort of social butterfly. I picked it to perform, and to enhance the game world in a new way through performance instead of through crafting or combat. The loss of need for a player to actually be present to enhance the world is what the profession is missing. I've been here since launch, and I remember when it was so close to working.. when we got to the point where there were getting to be too many masters in the busy cantinas, and we were starting to spread out to places like endor and wayfar, knowing that there were still competent people back home to help the newbies and keep the groups up and going. It was so close to working, but the AFKing just kicked that apart, the attitudes that we weren't good enough, weren't helpful enough, just weren't useful enough started to fester and grow along with the AFK, and suddenly people were quitting left and right, and it all just fell apart...

This is one of the main reasons why I am so adamant that we can't let this attitude that people are "forced" to visit entertainers (and along with that the one that entertainers aren't plentiful enough). We can't sell ourselves short like that. The only entertainer function that is not an optional bonus is wound/bf healing, and ANYONE can pick up novice entertainer and get that. Just like 90% of people have novice medic -- if they can do it for medic they can do it for entertainer. WE ARE NOT INHERENTLY LESS WORTHY OR VALUABLE AND I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE SAYING WE ARE!!!

For this reason it's impossible for there to not be enough entertainers because everyone can spend 100 credits for novice. So you can't double stack combat masteries and keep it? Boo hoo. It's called making choices and sacrificies -- either you sacrifice double stacked defense mods or you sacrifice the time to rely on someone else for heals. The only reason novice ent is less valuable is because hateful people say it is, and I'm tired of seeing it. It goes hand in hand with the derision AFKers have brought on us, and both need to be stopped.

Back on topic -- I mastered before the comprehensive buffing system and at the time it came about it was heralded as the system to make ATK better than AFK. The idea was that it was going to make ATK people in demand again, and give us an edge over the AFKers as well as a way to make money again. But since it didn't actually clean up the cantinas it (obviously) made things worse in the long run -- ATKers were still reluctant to spend time in "Heal me tip me lick me" spam at a scroll rate of approximately 3 pages per second, and combat players had by that time been trained that entertainers were useless macros to be laughed at. It was very much "too little too late" as far as ATK was concerned, and while the idea was that it would make us economically viable it was useless, not being bundled with some sort of fix for the underlying problems we were facing. And of course people just figured out how to automate buffing anyway, but that and the subsequent rise of the buffbots would have happened regardless of how many buffing masters were ATK. 1 or 10000 ATKers.. as long as people CAN exploit the system while AFK they WILL.

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Else-Whira wrote:

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Ihareo wrote:

No, /denyService was put in for us to make credits.

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Actually deny service was added to help us deal with unpleasant people without having to stop dancing (the old way we dealt with them.) It was something we discussed for top issues for quite a while. It was not added as a tool to increase income.

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The /deny command is useless. It isn't persistent and since I don't KNOW who is actually listening to me for the passive heals I can't monitor it close enough to even bother with a list. It also won't improve my income because, again, healing is passive and if someone comes in, types /listen, then moves off to a corner I won't know they are getting my free services.

We do deserve as much income as the combat professions. Yes some professions use equipment rapidly but they don't all. I just finally wore out my first set of composite after 9 months. When I was a rifleman it rarely got damaged, it wasn't till I did TK that I finally wore it out. I'm still using T21 rifles for an alt to go rifleman that I purchased when I first hit novice rifleman 8 months ago. I hunted constantly my first 4 months of play and made enough credits that I've just basically maintained my balance since then. I'll float from 7 to 4 mill and then slowly build it back up. That allows me to buy some of the cooler items but certainly not all of them. The big pad means I don't have to hurry to replace it but I could easily if I wanted to by doing combat missions or creature harvesting.

I do enjoy buying or looting cool decorations like the rugs, etc. Why can't I have them as an entertainer? Anyone saying we don't need lots of money is also saying that since someone chose entertainer they don't warrant all the other content in the game. My subscription should entitle me to as much content as anyone else's subscription. My choice of profession should not preclude that or I should get a significant discount in my monthly fee.