Dancer Archive
Thread: Ask Devs questions, be seen, be heard!
Utess
Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:31 pm
#27
The problem is not that we don't have a voice, it is that we aren't respected. Entertainers are now considered walking player event perks. I saw this coming when I saw the skill point requirements of ID dropped. When even merchant requires a normal amount of skillpoints you can see what the popular view of entertainers is.
Our only purpose to make social time fun. Don't get me wrong, that is what I love best about being an entertainer: being with friends and even total strangers and just having fun for the sake of it. But, that viewpoint means that we aren't part of a "balance" we are just there. So, we will never be taken seriously or respected. Our role is nebulous at best.
From the begining, the devs said they created BF to give players a reason to go to entertainers. BF was created because of us, not the other way around. The fact that we were given the task of healing mind wounds and buffing the mind is just a matter of convenience since we were already there. So, once the SWG community started to get jaded, we were no longer viewed as something "helpful" we were viewed as a contrived excuse to give entertainers a reason to exist.
Thus, buff bots and afk entertainers were born in order to minimize the now perceived "inconvenience". The problem is that afk play only helped to further people's lack of respect for the entertainer professions. "If a profession can be played totally afk, what kind of profession is it?" That's what the populace began to think.
We said all along that the problem had to be fixed when it first appeared, that delaying would only make things worse. Well, that has come to pass. Things have gone on too long to ever return I fear. The vast majority of the social and group loving players have long since left this game, leaving a game largely filled with combat loving, frequently anti-social, power gamers. They are the community now, and they are who the devs have to cater to.
Perhaps some day that will change. Maybe the combat revamp will draw back a lot of the social players. Or maybe someone like Holocron will take the helm again who valued and respected the social professions and saw them as the unique and wonderful thing they are. But, those are all maybes and are all far beyond our control.
Panthu, I feel we do have a voice, we have long given it with our cantina crawls, lengthy documents, thousands of wonderful ideas, talks with the developers, and more. The problem is we are a very very tiny voice now, overwhelmed by all the noise of those who do not care and do not respect us.
No matter how loud you shout it is hard to be heard when you are one voice in a million, and those million don't even respect you in the first place... I never thought I would feel jaded about the game, never thought I'd feel burnt out. I always tried to be positive, tried to make a difference any way I could, and nothing ever came of it
So, yes, I think things have gone too far now to be redeemed.
Things have become worse than they were in December, and even then we were told we might just want to "take a vacation from the game". We were told that by the devs! I only wish I had known then how deadly serious they were when they said that. Consider me on extended vacation.
Our only purpose to make social time fun. Don't get me wrong, that is what I love best about being an entertainer: being with friends and even total strangers and just having fun for the sake of it. But, that viewpoint means that we aren't part of a "balance" we are just there. So, we will never be taken seriously or respected. Our role is nebulous at best.
From the begining, the devs said they created BF to give players a reason to go to entertainers. BF was created because of us, not the other way around. The fact that we were given the task of healing mind wounds and buffing the mind is just a matter of convenience since we were already there. So, once the SWG community started to get jaded, we were no longer viewed as something "helpful" we were viewed as a contrived excuse to give entertainers a reason to exist.
Thus, buff bots and afk entertainers were born in order to minimize the now perceived "inconvenience". The problem is that afk play only helped to further people's lack of respect for the entertainer professions. "If a profession can be played totally afk, what kind of profession is it?" That's what the populace began to think.
We said all along that the problem had to be fixed when it first appeared, that delaying would only make things worse. Well, that has come to pass. Things have gone on too long to ever return I fear. The vast majority of the social and group loving players have long since left this game, leaving a game largely filled with combat loving, frequently anti-social, power gamers. They are the community now, and they are who the devs have to cater to.
Perhaps some day that will change. Maybe the combat revamp will draw back a lot of the social players. Or maybe someone like Holocron will take the helm again who valued and respected the social professions and saw them as the unique and wonderful thing they are. But, those are all maybes and are all far beyond our control.
Panthu, I feel we do have a voice, we have long given it with our cantina crawls, lengthy documents, thousands of wonderful ideas, talks with the developers, and more. The problem is we are a very very tiny voice now, overwhelmed by all the noise of those who do not care and do not respect us.
No matter how loud you shout it is hard to be heard when you are one voice in a million, and those million don't even respect you in the first place... I never thought I would feel jaded about the game, never thought I'd feel burnt out. I always tried to be positive, tried to make a difference any way I could, and nothing ever came of it
So, yes, I think things have gone too far now to be redeemed. Things have become worse than they were in December, and even then we were told we might just want to "take a vacation from the game". We were told that by the devs! I only wish I had known then how deadly serious they were when they said that. Consider me on extended vacation.
-Sioned-
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:27 am
#28
The CU will be a change for the entertainers no quaetion about it, i'm a new player playing since publish 9 so i never experienced the "old days" of the entertainer, but i look forward to the CU. With the CU entertainer buffs will be useless and this *GREAT* - Why? - simple no jedi alt AFK bots anymore. The AFK bots, the spam, the disrespect towards us all this is connected. The entertainer professions were USED and not played by most of the players. With the CU the USER will focus on something else, entertainers cant make huge amounts of money, cant fight, cant craft all day and cant support the combat chars anymore. This may look like a slap in the facefirst, but it isnt. We will be the phoenix - we will rise ot of the ashes - reborn with new love and new strengh. Maybe this is just a dream but i hope for it. THIS is our change for a new start. Some will say that now we entertainers are useless - mm maybe you are right but in my eyes if you think that you play the wrong profession. Entertainer are USELESS - they are in RL and they are supposed to be that ingame. Do make that clear with USELESS i mean not needed for the life not needed for the GCW or something like that. We are entertainers - our purpose is to ENTERTAIN not to buff or to heal wounds. And for all who say we lack content - entertainers are a roleplay profession more than any other profession - we are our own content. The only thing i would like to see is a bonus for entertainer to the use of faction perks - atm everybody can use 3 - i really would like to see some more for entertainers but that is just a idea.
So much to the good sides of the CU of course the are bad sides - one is without a question money - many entertainers are complaining that they wont get tips anymore. Well thats somehow right somehow not. We dont have a service to offer anymore besides healing BF and we cant direct the BF healing so its not really a service. So how do entertainers make money now? - Well we have missions - okay okay good joke i know but its a way to make money not much but it works somehow - and we have tips - Now many will say i dont get tips - Strange i never had a problem with that. Entertain, flirt interact with the people in the cantinas and you will find some ladies or gentlemen who like it and tip you some credits - it worked in the past it will work in the future.
Also here is one more idea to make money. It would be great if we would get money for dancing in a cantina - like we would be employes of the hotel or cantina - could be an option for the bartender or some other NPCs. Just a idea no more have to think about it in detail. But if something like that will ever go live i want some other feature see implemented iof you go afk for lets say 10 or 15 min - you just stop dancing. For me AFK entertaing is the worst thing that ever happened to the entertainers. I said earlier i havent seen other times - but i started this profession because i wanted - not because it would be usefull - and i hope the CU will bring the REAL entertainers back from the darkness.
Maybe i will be disappointed by the CU but for now ITS a CHANCE so do our best, cheer up and await the future 
Sioned Dor'thil
entertainer with passion
Panthu
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:47 am
#29
-Sioned- wrote:
Oooppps forgot a very important part. For the fullfill of our entertaining profession i mean to be able to do a show we would ofcourse NEED several add ons. How could i forget this ?!?! - Shame on me.
We need thebase dances FIXED
We need much more group control for doing a real band performance
We need a remote control via command line of our show droids
It would be great if we could rent the large Theaters in the citys to make REAL musicals and concerts.
Indoor fireworks would also be nice.
Custom flourishes would be the ultimate dream but i guess its too hard to code.
Stuff like that is what i hope for after the CU. I want more performing content for our profession not more USEFULL stuff. Just my thoughts....
That stuff has been talked about... we really need to be talking to Pex about that in the Events forum or else get it confirmed that it will come in an Ent Revamp following the CU.
If we don't ask, they won't see us. The Events role is really tricky, we really need to be in there talking to Pex if we want things like the PEPs for ourselves. Right now, it isn't clear that we get these things even if we don't have anything "useful."
Drygo
Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:31 am
#30
Panthu, that link in your sig is hilarious. Good way to brighten up the morning. LOL
kirah_ashlin
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:52 am
#32
Okay, I have an idea for a new expansion but it probably won't interest the devs much unless we push real hard to get the rest of the player base to support it. I call it:
Rage of Entertainers
Wherein all ATK entertainers have magical superpowers and can smackdown any other player, regardless of combat level, for rudeness, being disrespectful, getting too personal, refusal to pay for services rendered, or for supporting AFK buffbots. Oh and we get a special that allows us to force them to wear neon pink hawtpants and white go-go bootsfor a month.
Whatcha'll think?
Cosma1
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:55 am
#33
Oh and we get a special that allows us to force them to wear neon pink hawtpants and white go-go boots for a month.
And this is a punishment how?
And this is a punishment how?
Ihareo
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:05 pm
#34
Ravanne_Esi wrote:
Why bother? We have never seen any indication that they do more than look for some way to shut us up and hope we go away. I've gone thru the entire information posted on the CU and no where are any of the Entertainer professions mentions, even obliquely. The talk about the combat profession, they talk about crafting profession, they talk about the healing professions, which it seems we are not. But no where do they talk about the Entertainer professions. We should face the facts, we are of NO interest to them. None. The only thing that will be left to us is to be happy with what ever small scraps they decide to toss our direction to keep us paying our $15 a month. One thing I suppose we should be happy about is I'm sure the CU will solve the buffbot problem. of course they seem to be solving it by removing any reason we might want to play this game as opposed to hanging out in some chatroom.
Message Edited by Ravanne_Esi on 03-29-2005 07:24 PM
Allwase with you what cannot be done... That is why you fail...
Ihareo
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:13 pm
#35
This is what I posted... I hope it's adequate...
I'm not sure how to put this in an intelligent way so please bear with me...
I propose that entertainers recieve some modifiers in cobat. Please hear me out and read for a moment.
Dancers are by nature and training very coordinated and dexterous.
- Dancers should get some kind of dodge or evasion modifier as a Dancer's body and hand eye coordination could easily be applied to evading an attacker.
- This modifier would be based on the level of our Dancing Knowlage (that is what determines what physical manouvers we can pull off)
Musicians are by nature in tune with the emotions of their audience. It's not a very far cry to apply this to combat.
- Musicians would have a 'mezz' that stuns an opponent or opponents long enough to get away.
- This would be based off their musical knowlage tree as that determines what kind of music they'd play.
- An opponent 'mezzed' in this way would immediately come out of it, and resume attacking if the musician took any combat action other than runing.
Balance Points
- As a Dancer and Musician would offer no other combat bonuses, a combatant would be ill advised to use an entertainent profession as a 'cussion'.
- This would allow entertainers, who don't want to be in combat anyway, to avoid combat and escape.
Ihareo
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:14 pm
#36
rassum frassum double posts...
Message Edited by Ihareo on 03-30-2005 11:17 AM
Warryyr
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:38 pm
#37
I posted, too. I think before I read this post, actually. I think I managed to get a big honkin' Entertainers? post on the first page of the Overview document, actually.
I also put the same into the healing document.
I also saw several posts begging and pleading and demanding to know what the hwell was going on with Entertainers in the CU.
I also VERY DISTINCTLY noted the number of Dev responses to our disgusting and blatant exclusion from one single stinkin' CU document post. Know the number of responses???? Do ya???? That's right, kiddos - ZERO!!!! Some things never change.
This is total and complete BS, not only because we're completely absent from anything involving the new way of healing (what the **edit** are we now in this game???), but because we're being thoroughly ignored and treated like pieces of **edit**.
I PAY FOR THIS GAME.
I fully expected to know what the hell was happening to MY game, MY part in it, MY skills, MY skill mods, MY skill attachments, MY force sensitive skills, MY means of income.
I GET NOTHING. I have asked countless times for Entertainer information in the CU and have gotten NOTHING. Nothing!!!!!!
What the hell kind of way is that to treat a customer?
Also, as to why I think many threads outside of our forums aren't responded to by Entertainers is because we're very quickly told toshut the **edit** upfrequently, go away, doesn't pertain to you, blah blah blah blah, CU is only for combat (what a crock). We're treated like the scum of the game, so we hide in our little corner. What the hell else are people going to do.
I've seen time and time again how Entertainers get impassioned about something, then brutally lambasted by other players in this game.
With apologies to the late Rodney Dangerfield, "we get no respect, I tells ya - no respect."
So, you wanted some posts in there from Entertainers? I've been making them. And getting nothing from them. I have given up all hope and effort.
Nothing I have done has achieved anything in getting information from the Devs.
I'm sorry, Panthu, for being the troublemaker.
But, I'm sick of it, I'm sick of the Devs, I'm sick of being treated like I DON'T PAY FOR THIS GAME, TOO.
I'm like Nextel: Done.
I won't waste my time, and I won't waste the Devs' time anymore.
Someone else take my place in trying tooth, nail and friggin skin of my back to get anything out of these Devs, because every single effort on my part has been fruitless and seemingly ignored, and quite frankly paying for this "service" from these "Devs" has put me past my tolerance level.
NO RESPONSES?
Kiss my **edit** and I'll save my breath. I've only been asking for months now. MONTHS.
Pathetic.
Done.
Warryyr
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:45 pm
#38
I would also like to point out that in not ONE of the CU documents does the word "entertainer" appear.
Kiss my big furry **edit** Devs.
Gee, only myself and a number of other Entertainers have been asking countless questions for any scrap of information about our role in the game we pay for, once this CU goes Live.
So, quite literally and very sincerely Devs, and this is from my big Wookiee heart - thanks for nothing.
Schardour
Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:50 pm
#39
Warryyr wrote:
I'm like Nextel: Done.
I won't waste my time, and I won't waste the Devs' time anymore.
Someone else take my place in trying tooth, nail and friggin skin of my back to get anything out of these Devs, because every single effort on my part has been fruitless and seemingly ignored, and quite frankly paying for this "service" from these "Devs" has put me past my tolerance level.
NO RESPONSES?
Kiss my **edit** and I'll save my breath. I've only been asking for months now. MONTHS.
Pathetic.
Done.
Umm, what he said. ^^^^^^^^^
April 1 - The day the music died.