Dancer Archive
Thread: Ask Devs questions, be seen, be heard!
Panthu wrote:
Ravanne_Esi wrote:
They say the main sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and again expecting different results.
You know, I site that saying all the time too. It was Einstein who said that, I love him. Anyway, when I see a flood of Ent posters out in the Devs' threads really trying to get our community voice outthere and heard where it will count... over and over again for an extended period of time and it still has no effect... then I will admit defeat and give up.
We haven't even tried this plan yet.
*thanksFainora for the snacks* /whisper I have to always spell check too.
i knew there was a reason i liked you 
im an einstien groupie myself that man just seemed to know what it was all about and rumour is he was dyslexic too.
oo and i went and posted it i posted it in the general thread not sure if that was the right one or not
damn skippy its about time westopped preaching to the converted and arguing amongst ourselves the only way were ever going ot get anything done it to not only have great ideas but present a unitedfront inside and outside of our forums
Panthu wrote:
Ok, just to be painfully blunt here... I'm telling you that all the effort any of us have ever made pouring out ideas in our profession is not working... it came close to working... it almost did. We worked that Corr program better than any other prof group! We told our Corrs what we thought and they've made lists and talked to Devs in the corr forums, in PMs, in IMs, in emails, and sometimes even in person! I know, I was there for a lot of that!
We have never been a presence outside of our own forums though. I mean the forums where Devs start threads and you can only reply, that's where we have never been and that's where we need to be.
CU, RotW, Ent Revamp, blah blah blah, none of this matters at all to us because we do not have a real presence out there that the Devs have to see. When the Devs start telling us "stop posting about Ent Issues, it's not your time"... then we will have made a dent! Even then though, we'd still have to keep on posting about it over and over again.
That's what we've needed. That's what we've never had. That's why they have been able to ignore us and will continue to if we don't turn this apathy around.
Hello! For the first time ever there is a document out in public that says Entertainers aren't Healers!! Do you know how badly I freaked out when I was first told that? Do you know how badly I said Ents would freak out? Do you remember how much people yelled at me in here when I came back and shared that info?
Well, ok! It's public now! Go post in the Dev thread about it! Who cares if you already think you know it won't do anything, why not try?
So, until I see what it is we have left I can't realy make an informed suggestion for our betterment
Else-Whira wrote:
I need to test out CU dancer before I make any suggestions. On paper, I see dancer returning to the profession I loved and wanted to play in beta and the first months of the game being live before the addition of buffs ruined it.
So, until I see what it is we have left I can't realy make an informed suggestion for our betterment
I understand that... these are design docs though, and they are looking for design feedback at this time. If you just think that this is going to take us back to the pure Social concept you described in the other thread and you are on board with that, I still think that would be a useful thing to say out there to help build an Entertainer Voice.
I'm seeing other non-Combat communities in those feedback threads. I'm not seeing us so far. Also, please don't forget, things do get changed even in these early exchanges that end up having a lasting impact on development.
If not, I won't be disappointed again.Message Edited by Drygo on 03-29-2005 07:54 PM
Hopefully some of these other positive posters that kept trying to twist things into something far better looking then what they appeared to be will become posting demons in those threads.
I will TRY though to get into it and post MORE in such threads and try and get SOME positive Dev feedback...
DarkY0da wrote:
I'm having a little trouble doing this right now Panthu... after what did and didn't happen with the alpha...
Sweetie, I know it's hard to bounce back from, lol. I had a hard time last summer myself and I'm the never ending perk monster.
Yay for those who can try though!
*hugs for the bruised ones* Now shush, let the ones who can try bounce back!
Drygo wrote:
PPS. Panthu, lol...after reading all of the upgrade documents, I was wondering where people should post exactly. None of the documents have anything to do with entertainers. Is there a particular upgrade document thread where it would be most logical for people to post? Someplace where entertainer talk won't be considered off topic?
No, there isn't a place really... and that's exactly what needs to be addressed. That is why when these documents were first posted in the Corr Forum I personally went into the Roles Document thread, the Overview Document thread, and the Healing Document thread and flipped out. Where I was yes, mostly ignored but then got a wonderful new promise... an Ent Revamp that would address our lack of a role!
Ok, so I'm thinking that's not really the plan anymore. I fought this once. I'm not asking you guys to do anything I didn't personally do myself.
I posted in those corr threads and showed my hiney though because I want us to survive and I thought you guys would want me in there making a fuss for some attention. It almost worked. It's looking like maybe it's not now... have you guys heard anything about an Ent Revamp? No, you haven't. You were supposed to when these Docs hit. Now that they have hit and it's not being mentioned, it's time to make a fuss again.
Or not, and we just get whatever is left over... I've just never been really good at that, heh.
Drygo wrote:PPS. Panthu, lol...after reading all of the upgrade documents, I was wondering where people should post exactly. None of the documents have anything to do with entertainers. Is there a particular upgrade document thread where it would be most logical for people to post? Someplace where entertainer talk won't be considered off topic?
That's the thing -- every time I try to move out of this forum I get told "Stop whining. You'll get a revamp after the important stuff is taken care of. Smuggler, Commando, Carbineer, Pistoleer, Creature Handler, Bounty Hunter, Jedi, Pikemen, Riflemen, blah blah blah are all more broken than Entertainer. Go dance your new dance and leave things that don't involve you alone."
I've heard that more in the past few weeks than ever before.
I TRY to move our issues out of here. And I get shoved back.
I'll try again, I guess, if I can find something related to use as a starting point. But I guarantee that all that will happen is a bunch of combat people telling me to get my nose out of their revamp. Good thing I don't particular care what they think.
Panthu wrote:
Ok, just to be painfully blunt here... I'm telling you that all the effort any of us have ever made pouring out ideas in our profession is not working... it came close to working... it almost did. We worked that Corr program better than any other prof group! We told our Corrs what we thought and they've made lists and talked to Devs in the corr forums, in PMs, in IMs, in emails, and sometimes even in person! I know, I was there for a lot of that!
We have never been a presence outside of our own forums though. I mean the forums where Devs start threads and you can only reply, that's where we have never been and that's where we need to be.
CU, RotW, Ent Revamp, blah blah blah, none of this matters at all to us because we do not have a real presence out there that the Devs have to see. When the Devs start telling us "stop posting about Ent Issues, it's not your time"... then we will have made a dent! Even then though, we'd still have to keep on posting about it over and over again.
That's what we've needed. That's what we've never had. That's why they have been able to ignore us and will continue to if we don't turn this apathy around.
Hello! For the first time ever there is a document out in public that says Entertainers aren't Healers!! Do you know how badly I freaked out when I was first told that? Do you know how badly I said Ents would freak out? Do you remember how much people yelled at me in here when I came back and shared that info?
Well, ok! It's public now! Go post in the Dev thread about it! Who cares if you already think you know it won't do anything, why not try?
Riiight... you are correct, we should at least make the effort, or we can't very well complain afterwards about having been ignored.
And we will be ignored, you know. Contrary to what you state, entertainers have tried to provide feedback, to ask question, to stand up for our community whenever an issue came up that touched us in any way, no matter how marginally. And it did not help. Whenever an entertainer posted a "and what about us?" type of question, they have been ignored, or at best brushed off by the Devs. Oh, and let's not forget about being flamed to hell by just about everyone else. The combat toons get oh so indignant when entertainers dare to show their faces outisde of their own forums. Hell, even on the few occasions where the Devs posted something about us (new content on TC, not that it happened often anyway), you'd always get combat toons in the threads stating "What!! Entertainers get attention?? What about us??"
Sad fact is that our numbers are just too small. We get drowned out, which gives the Devs the perfect excuse to ignore us. And ignore us they will. Let me make this clear: I'm firmly with Drygo in my opinion that it's pointless, that we're lost, and that there is no more hope of ever being treated like the same kind of customer as your average TKM/Rifleman. I'm just more stubborn than him it seems. I do respect and even envy your positive outlook, Panthu, and I think a voice like yours is very much needed around here at this time. Just don't expect everyone to share that outlook.
So I guess I'm off to the Dev threads now to post some questions about entertainers. And I even promise I'll keep it rational and reasonable. But I don't fool myself for a second that it will accomplish anything.