Dancer Archive
Thread: Why is Dancing regarded so poorly by those in other professions?
Waiters, Waitresses have a base pay, they don't survive solely on tips, big difference.
Also they serve food, they are not the product people come for, another big difference.
You hear ppl offering tips for healing in the Med Center, but in the Cantina, you can get the same healing for free.
Besides time, a high lvl dancer also gives up valuable skill points that could be used for other skills that could be making money. If you look at the skill point costs in entertaining, they are high.
The current trend is people earn a high entertainer skill and then move on and start giving them up. Soon it will be much harder to find an entertainer as the economy has hit tipping in a big way. I remember when tips could be pretty darn good but that isn't the case anymore. I know a good friend and fellow dancer that gave up all her skills and now carries the title of Slicer. She says now she gets the respect and makes credits...
I think entertainers need to move out of the Cantinas, then perhaps they will be compensated for their time and skill. You know the saying... why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free...
Well said Sinda...while reading this whole thread, that was my thought exactly.
I have a regular customer base, and they all tip me well. I take the time to get to know all of them, I joke with them & tease them, and they love it. I am not saying I "play" them to get the creds...its no where near like that. I do what I do because I love it. My customers are my friends. I adore them all & they know it....I think that is a very important element that a lot of dancers miss....IMHO anyway..
How can you say that flirting is wrong.. And to compare flirting with prostitution? That's just a very strange thing to say. I love to flirt and I will flirt with whomever I choose to flirt with, please just stop all these attacks on different peoples playstyles.
And it is the customers right to be healed, if they don't want to tip me for it. Then that's okay with me too..I just wish the could give us that focus bonus that someone mentioned in another thread, now THAT would be fun 
"Is it just sexism directed at a career that predominantly features females, or is it something different?"
Actually it is a career that features males playing females, and most people realize this. I don't know if that taints the class at all for some people, but most guys I think realize that any female they see dancing is actually a boy.
Anyway...
Anyone who played in band or sang in choir in high school knows of the attitudes that each had towards the other. They both felt superior, and both had their reasons why. I get this same aura from dancers and musicians. As a musician, I definitely feel I made "the right choice" as far as what to do, and couldn't imagine dancing for a living. hehe I would hope most dancers feel the same way about their chosen profession as well. I really only have one word to sum up my idea of dancing though: BORING. I was originally very excited about the exotic dances and such, but after seeing them and how they all look alike, I couldn't imagine standing in one spot doing a slow hula dance for hours on end, particularly without musicians around. As a musician though, I love standing around soloing on my horn... it's actually somewhat entertaining to me.
I AM NOT KNOCKING DANCERS so don't take me the wrong way... that is just why I don't care for dancing, and possibly why you hear other musicians talking down to them... however I don't condone that practice.
As far as other professions not respecting entertainers that is a no brainer. Becoming a master entertainer/dancer/musician takes skills equivolent to playing The Sims Online. Mash some skill buttons randomly and talk to your friends, never having to use any type of strategy or worry about death and loosing things... it's a pretty mindless profession let's admit it. Fine, yes, it takes time... but time isn't something that earns you respect. The level of your destroy missions can earn you respect from other combat types I suppose - but standing around dancing a mean exotic in a skimpy leotard won't.
/wave Ninja007 ..... I have never used a macro, and don't even have the slightest clue how to make one. It's nice to meet you.
I don't care much for AFK macro so I'm in no way ever going to do it. Ask the people that dance with me in the cantina, if I'm having to go afk for whatever reason i sit and put my afk tag on. Most of the time I even go sit in a chair somewhere in case someone comes in and needs a spot to dance.
As for no respect, I normally only see it on the boards. I've never been talked down to in game and normally receive good tips from most people. If I don't, no biggie. Its a busy cantina with lots of other dancers and musicians, I'm not going to get every tip.
That is also why I took up pistol. No, I won't ever be that great but at least I can go out with my friends and make a little cash on missions and have fun.
And for people that think we don't need tips, some of us do pay for our training, and it costs just as much for us as it does for you. So thinking that we dont have things to pay for is silly, and that we dont deserve tips because we take no risk. We pay for the skills to learn more and get you back out in the field faster. People should appreciate that. Just because we don't die healing you in the cantina doesn't mean we should not be respected.
Relica Tremayne
Master Dancer / Master Image Designer / Apprentice Gunfighter
Eclipse,Corellia
Actually it is a career that features males playing females, and most people realize this. I don't know if that taints the class at all for some people, but most guys I think realize that any female they see dancing is actually a boy.
[...]
The level of your destroy missions can earn you respect from other combat types I suppose - but standing around dancing a mean exotic in a skimpy leotard won't.
Contrary to the people doing destroy missions, who think that each hairy or scaley or horny ( uhm... yea, you know what I mean ) guntoting person is indeed not a boy but a real alien. Wake up, we all play roles. Your assumption a female character should have a female player is as wrong as assuming a twilek is indeed some blue skinned guy with tentacles in real life.
Playing a role is pretty common in RPGs (DOH!). And I don't see how a role will gain you respect or disrespect. It won't. Master Dancer has no respect from me, Master Bounty Hunter neither. A nice person playing a novice noob has respect, if s/he is playing respectful. You don't gain respect by any amount of XP or any mission you survived. Those attributes will only get you respect in the 1337 crowd of highschool boys. Respect me and I'll respect you. Doesn't matter what role you play in this game.
Since we have no edit feature ..I just reread my post and meant to use credits instead of tips.
Relica Tremayne
Master Dancer / Master Image Designer / Apprentice Gunfighter
Eclipse
Relica wrote:As for no respect, I normally only see it on the boards. I've never been talked down to in game and normally receive good tips from most people. If I don't, no biggie. Its a busy cantina with lots of other dancers and musicians, I'm not going to get every tip.
This... is an oustanding point.
The forums, particularly the more general forums, are mostly filled with rabid PVP-nuts and people who love combat. Just go read the SWG general discussion board some time. Out of say 20 topics on the first page, 18 or so will always be about nerfing or powering up some profession because of how it works in PVP. The forum is not read by most "regular" players.
For example, I have mentioned /denyservice and how it is (apparently) on the way in an upcoming patch to about 20 different entertainer types on the Naritus server. Not one of them had ever heard of it. And while many of them are starting now to individually get annoyed at LAMErs, again, none of them know about the vigorous debates here on the forum.
So I think you are right... the majority of "disrespect" that performers get is right here on the forum, from the PVP nuts who are so vitriolic and rabid about the game (these are the same people who gripe about there "not being enough content" and post every other day "I QUIT" or "SOE AND Y THEY SUCK" on the main board). Ask yourself -- do you really care about the opinion of such children? I sure don't.
In-game the only dis-respect I have seen is from the few people on my ignore list. I think it's a grand total of six people right now. 3 of them are /lickers and the like. But you know the sad part? The other 3 people (that's right, fully 1/2 of my ignore list) are entertainers... the every-2-minutes tip-spammers who just will not shut up.
In general, I have found that if you let someone have it immediately after a /lick or /kiss, they seem to cut it out. If they keep it up, I have seen all the dancers and musicians just stop performing and then the other customers will generally go postal on the /lickers butt because they want to be healed. The vast majority of people, even if they don't tip, at least say "thank you" when they are healed. Very few of them do things like /spitting on my little dancer.
C
nvoigt wrote:
Your assumption a female character should have a female player is as wrong as assuming a twilek is indeed some blue skinned guy with tentacles in real life.
Could you please quote where I said that? Thanks. You must've gone to the CantinaFly School of Journalism...
Entertainers are regarded poorly because we can not demend payment for our services. We are looked upon as the person on the street with the hat on the ground.But thestreet entertainer is not providing a needed service. It is left up to other players to decide if we are worthy of a tip or not. This has a direct impact on respect. No one thinks twice of compensating any other profession for the time they invested into their profession, they demand it. They also don't give away their services for free as entertainers have no control over. When I've been in a med center due to untimely death, I have seen ppl clamoring to pay for fast healing. If they could just watch the doctor and recieve their healing I supposedoctors would be less respected also.Credits and respect go hand in hand.
I thinkthat there are a number of sources of the poor opinion. Here is the list of thingsI can remember that have been said to me about dancers. Some were said to me while dancing and others simply saidin my presence:
1. Entertainers as parasites. They believe that they take risks fighting and that dancers safely benefit from their efforts.
2. Playershave to visit entertainers andfeel that they should therefore avoid paying unless they have to.
3. Entertainers are glorified beggars.
4. Unless they contribute because of a second professions, entertainers are dead weight in a group except to the extent that they can heal mind wounds between battles.
5. Many dancers engage in behavior (underwear dancing and emotes e.g.) that some players regard as undignified or disreputable.
6. Entertainers do no contribute to the Galatic conflict.
7. There are so many entertainers it must be easy money.
8 Entertainers do not need money since they do not have to buy "important stuff" (guns, blades, powerups, pet food resources) just clothes.
9. Entertainers are just hypocrites who sayanythings to get money.
10. Dancers are sluts and do not deserve any respect.
Those are all I can remember off hand. Do not expect big changes in these attitudes.
"And you will not find a master dancer who hasn't done this to some degree. I speak from wide, direct experience. "
I'm a master dancer, and I didn't macro my way to get it. I actually played the whole time. I'd tell you to take your 'wide, direct experience' and shove it, but I don't think it'll fit in your mouth with your foot stuffed in there like that.
Somewhere out there, there's a really lonely bridge.
Could you please quote where I said that? Thanks. You must've gone to the CantinaFly School of Journalism...
I did. Look at my post again. I quoted you. If it doesn't show up, check your browser configuration.