Dancer Archive
Thread: Why is Dancing regarded so poorly by those in other professions?
"Mostly, I think our reputation is damaged by those who beg for tips..."
If people tipped, I think there would be far fewer entertainers spamming for tips. The fact is, 90% or more people DON'T TIP. Let's get this straight -PLAYERS ARESUPPOSED TO TIP ENTERTAINERS. It's a part of the game's market model.
Why do I get the distinct impression that it'sthepeople whonever tip whocome on boards like this whining that we don't have a 'real' job in the game andmaking excuses for their own stingy attitude. As entertainers in the cantinasget fewer and fewer (because there's no profit in it), maybe people will realise our worth. The less we get paid by the customers, the less entertainers there will be, and we might eventually get the money we deserve.
I'm on the dance floor every day, and 95% of the time I'm there in person, yet I get few tips per day - sometimes none at all. It's a scandal. I'm glad that the developers are instituting a /denyservice feature - it will surely be used infrequently, but I think it will tend to mandate a healthy respect for our profession.
"How can you say that flirting is wrong"
I'm not saying that flirting is wrong. What I'm saying is that flirting is NOT what the customers should be tipping for. If they're tipping for flirting, that's prostitution - selling sexual favours for money. That's a simple definition of prostitution. If the customers are paying for sexual favours, whether it be a smile, a hug, or a lapdance, it is soliciting prostitution. The customer should reallybase his/her tip on the quality of the heal, nothing more. The dancer's demeanour is the dancer's own prerogative. No dancer should feel obliged to smile, or engage in conversation - if they are, they are being forced to sell their body.
"And it is the customers right to be healed"
No it is not. It is the dancer's right to withhold healing if they desire. The customer has absolutely no right to make the dancer dance. If you force a dancer to dance for money, that is a form of rape, since you are forcing the use of the dancer's body against that person's will.
"I love to flirt and I will flirt with whomever I choose to flirt with, please just stop all these attacks on different peoples playstyles."
I'm not attacking anyone's playstyle, and if you seriously think that I'm against flirting, you've clearly never seen me play. I am very flirtatious. I suggest you read my message again and the clarification I added above if you wantto understand my point.
This whole 'tipping for a smile' thing is so wrong on so many levels. It suggests that dancers should fit a stereotype that is shamelesslyprejudiced. It suggests that good looks and a happy demeanourare what are mostimportant in dancing. That is like saying that the most important thing in flying a Boeing 747 is how good the pilot looks in his uniform. The beauty of the movements are what is most important in a dance, just as the smoothness of a landing is what's important about a transatlantic flight. Dancers don't spend days learning how to widen their smile or flirt more effectively - they learn better dance moves.
If the customers aren't tipping based on a dancer's skill, they're paying for the wrong service.
I have my regulars that I hav made good friends with that tip me well. I don't expect tips for dancing or even training the other dancers, but when I get them it is nice. I try to talk to everyone that comes in and make conversation. I dance to be social and make friends. And yes, entertainers do need tips to survive. We also have houses to maintain, and yes clothes are a good part of our image. We also need tips to actually train our new skills. If we don't get tips, we don't get the skills, and you will be watching the same dance over and over again forever. Some of us have other professions to go out and mission for money. Some don't. When you are a dancer needing skills and your fellow dancer with that skill refuses to train for some reason or another, you have to pay for that training. I paid for almost all my higher lvl training because the one higher lvl dancer there refused to train anyone. Guess I cought up too fast. Plus she got mad cuase I made better tips for wearing a full gown instead of her wearing a skimpy outfit and fkirting with everyone there. I live of my dancer money. I bought over $100,000 of clothes and almost all my skills from dancing. I rarely do missions. I guess it just depends on what kind of people play on the server and city you are in. I get tips from 95% of the people that come in, and so does every member of the band. Even if it is a gift, a heal, or $5. A tip is a tip. Healinf action I consider a tip cause it keeps me going for everyone else to see. I myself have become a master dancer a week ago. I still spend most of my time in the cantina dancing for everyone. I have made most of my friends there. I know that sooner or later, they will be there to see me, even if they don't need healed. I am also about to become a master medic later today. People have tipped me for healing them that way too. I always tell them it is not necessary, but they want to do it. I was even tipped by someone who was watching the dancers while I was healing the dancers action, I wasn't even dancing.
So I guess the point is, if you feel you need to tip, then tip, if you feel the need not to tip, then don't tip. Just remember that we need to pay for skills too.
Beery wrote:
This whole 'tipping for a smile' thing is so wrong on so many levels. It suggests that dancers should fit a stereotype that is shamelesslyprejudiced. It suggests that good looks and a happy demeanourare what are mostimportant in dancing. That is like saying that the most important thing in flying a Boeing 747 is how good the pilot looks in his uniform. The beauty of the movements are what is most important in a dance, just as the smoothness of a landing is what's important about a transatlantic flight. Dancers don't spend days learning how to widen their smile or flirt more effectively - they learn better dance moves.
If the customers aren't tipping based on a dancer's skill, they're paying for the wrong service.
How is that wrong, beery? Honestly?
If a novice entertainer, just trying to advance, actually smiles at me and says 'hello' and provides actual entertainment I should only tip her/him only a few creds. But if am healed by aMaster Dancer/Musician, who is AFK, then they should get a big tip simply because they are more 'skilled'?
I'm sorry, but in a service profession those little 'extras' are what make the difference. Those little niceties are what will win over people like me. That very socialization is what these professions seem to based upon and are the entire reason I tip.
I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination. A doctor in this game is barely seen as equal to the combat or crafter professions. We are lumped together with entertainers in the service professions. My income is, admittedly, more then what yours is but it's a far cry from the hundreds of thousands of credits some combat types have, or the millions some crafters have.
But I still tip. Because that entertainer took their time to take up a profession that provides me with a service...and they're actually making an effort to entertain.
Doesn't matter if it's a male or a female, twi'lek or a wook, as long as the entertainer treats me as a person and not some source of credits, then they get what they deserve.
Beery wrote:
If people tipped, I think there would be far fewer entertainers spamming for tips. The fact is, 90% or more people DON'T TIP. Let's get this straight -PLAYERS ARESUPPOSED TO TIP ENTERTAINERS. It's a part of the game's market model.
Does your waitress come by your table and remind you that you should tip her every 90 seconds? If she did, would you be impressed with her persistence and tip her more? I completely and utterly agree that people should be tipping entertainers. I don't think that spamming that information every 90 seconds makes people more inclined to do so.
The game's market model is flawed. It assumes that people will do the right thing. Many people are much more inclined to take what is given them whenever possible.
I mistookthe title of your post for an honest question. I didn't realize you already had all the answers.
"I'm sorry, but in a service profession those little 'extras' are what make the difference. Those little niceties are what will win over people like me."
But you're missing the point. Tip is for the service, not the optional extra smile etc. Good service deserves a good tip, just like in a restaurant. You don't tip a waitress, however much she smiles, if the food is cold when you receive it. If players tip for the smile, then any newbie can get as much reward as a master dancer, and you'd be spending hundreds tipping a person who was giving you slow heals just as much as one who was healing you faster and allowing you to get back to making money.
Tipping for smiles is not only tipping for the wrong service, it's also counter-productive in regards to your ability to play the game efficiently.
"Does your waitress come by your table and remind you that you should tip her every 90 seconds?"
No, in the real world it's standard to tip 15 to 20% (or there's a 15% service charge). If only that were true in the game, entertainers wouldn't feel the need to spam for tips.
"I mistookthe title of your post for an honest question. I didn't realize you already had all the answers."
The fact that you assume that my question WASN'T honest just shows your cynicism. The fact that I have an opinion on the subjectdoesn't make my original question any less honest. Pleasedon't engage incharacter assassination just because you disagree with me. An ad-hominem attack is the laziest sort of argument, and the least persuasive.
That's up to each and everybody to decide.Everyone works diffrently, yeah? I could very well tip a waiter that was giving me and my company a good time, even if the food wasn't all that nice. Or not be inclined to tip if the food was great but the waiter was behaving badly, or just "doing her job". I don't want to be made to feel I am a job she is doing, do I? The optional extra smile is often what makes you willing to tip in the fist place..
Dancer is one of the only professions you can gain (and most DO) while being asleep. There's also never any risk whatsoever or any loss. Any idiot can set up a macro & go to work, come home, play a bit, hit the macro, go to sleep...ad infinitum. A week or two at most later...you're master. And you will not find a master dancer who hasn't done this to some degree. I speak from wide, direct experience.
This is not a moral/value judegment. Just a cold hard black & white fact. Gaining Dancer is probably THE easiest profession. Musician is a close second (second only because it's less common & therefore a bit harder/less convenientto get all your training for free). Personally I'm glad for it...I'd be SOL playing the odd hours I do, often in the middle of the night, & battling/dying a lot, without macroing dancers in the cantinas to watch & help me out. Everyone wins.
The healing service that entertainers provide was designed as a hook to get people who otherwise would never step foot into a cantina to do so. It's to help give entertainers an audience.
An entertainer's main purpose is to entertain, not to be a healer. Sure, healing has value, but that was not the motivation for having the profession.
The current design of battle fatigue healing is not to encourage battle fatigue healbots.
The only expense of a battle fatigue healbot is training. You dont' need clothes or new instruments if you don't entertain.
Luckily, entertainers are capable of much more than just being a bot.