Dancer Archive
Thread: At what point is it considered sexual harrassment?
Sbocaj wrote:
If my daughter started having dreams and nightmares from a game, I'd send her to a shrink.
Its not the game that she's having dreams and nightmares about. Its about suddenly realizing that some guy out there wants to rape her character. She realizes that there are actually men out there who are capable of wanting to do something so horrible like that. *rapes you* is not something that is even remotely funny to see.
Again though I emphasize CONSENT because I am aware that there are people who like to do this. I just suggest that nobody do anything like that without first getting consent from the other person.
I am amazed at the 'Its just a game' comments. Yes, its a game...but sexual harassment is not only not acceptable but it is against the agreement you signed when you created your account here!
As for the child having nightmares, you have NO IDEA what a 13 year old or even 15 year old has been through in their real life...or even an adult for that matter. This may be a game, but the people making the comments are REAL people and the people who are being harrassed are REAL people.
If the harassment occurs, and does not stop when asked to stop, then it goes beyond the game. It is no different from an obscene phone call, which can terrorize a person. Obscene phone calls are illegal and the phone company can prosecute people who do this.
Sexual harassment can get a player banned from this game and how the CSR handle this situation in a game with a lot of sexual inuendos will be watched very very closely I imagine.
Like, you did the right thing. You asked him to stop, you gave him a chance to stop, when he didn't, you ignored him and reported him. Even though I am an adult and can handle some harassment, you never know when the woman being harassed might be someone's 14 year old daughter. So...report them if its a clear case of harassement. Even if you can handle it, someone else might not be so lucky.
Sexual harassment in games has turned off many women from playing. So enlist the guys to help you out. I hear many guys complain there are not enough women playing....tell them why, ask them to help you in such cases. If they witness sexual harassment, they can also report.
Remember, sexual harassment can escalate and even if you are smart enough not to give out identifying info, a younger player might not be.
This whole thread is very intresting. I think a great way to take care of it would be to:
TAKE A BOUNTY OUT ON THEIR @$$ 
.
How cool would that be if the devs made some missions to take out people who have harrassed the dancers. You kow like when youget those letters in the mail to let you know a molster or murderer has moved into your neighborhood. Excpet here we can deal with them SWG fashion 
. I am on my way to the bounty hunter profession. I may reconsider becuase it will probably be flooded. Anyway just a fun thought.
EMPTY-BOX
Corellia, coronet
It finally came down to a clear discussions of the action I was prepared to take if it continued. I hated to have to use a direct threat but some people are like mules, you have to hit them between the eyes with a 2x4 to get their attention.
I'm happy to say that once it was made clear, the problem was solved and he and I can continue on with some understood limits.
And I WOULD have taken a Bounty out on him if there had been a Bounty Hunter handy. Where ARE you guys when we NEED you?
How cool would that be if the devs made some missions to take out people who have harrassed the dancers.
It would be VERY cool, except once they knew it was possible they would never remove their PVP flag to avoid it.
If there was a system in place for it though, I say have a set up where Dancers could post their complaint to CSR.
If it's a legit complaint afterreview of the files and youget X amount of complaints your flag is removed, you are marked with the scarlet letter of "P" for pervert and open for fodder permanently.
Either that or you are banned from cantina's for 1hour game time per complaint would solve it too. Imagine some kid getting 30 complaints from his "fun", and having to sit on his but for 30 hours to work it off... talk about getting a "time out" for bad behavior. *lol*
___
Flawed Diamond,
I'm sorry you experienced it too. I hope it wasn't to the stage mine went.
I warned the dude to cut it out or I'd file a complaint with a CSR. He didn't back off and only got worse. I imagine he thought I was bluffing both times... I wasn't. He now knows that.
The next day the CSR I was working with showed up in the cantina to talk to me about it (oh do I have shots from that happening). He had logged in to address the complaint and needed more info.
The name of that character no longer exists. I know it did at one point shortly after because I checked it, and it was there, as of this am it wasn't.
I won't know what happened, could be Sony nixed him, or he deleted and made another character aftr his warning... but it was addressed by CSR'swith him and that's all that matters.
Next time just get someone to challenge him to a duel, or (if you are skilled) do it yourself. If that fails then just do /ignore. Personally I find it pretty ridiculous that someone could be bothered by someone like this. Although I'd never go around acting like such a jerk myself, it IS just a game. No offense, but if your husband is that **edit** retentive about what happens in a game, then maybe you guys have bigger problems. Does he play too? If so, where was he to challenge this guy to a duel?
Sorry to sound so critical, but I just can't relate at all. Yes, there are jerks in this world. Anyone over the age of 10 should know that. The thing is not to let them get to you. If someone gets under your skin then they win. If you just blow them off and don't take them seriously, then they lose. Maybe the guy shouldn't have done what he did, but what it really boils down to is just rude comments. If you'd just been a little bit thicker skinned, there wouldn't have been a problem.
Oh...now I see that you're only married in the game.
I never said I was married out of it either... MY RL marital status is not in any way related to this situaion so let's leave that totally out of the equation.
IF I am married IRL maybe he was at work, maybe he was out with some friend, maybe he was mowing the lawn.
But, I'll reiterate: where was your husband to "defend your honor" and all that stuff? Maybe it's time to file for a divorice.
Maybe he wasn't logged on??
Maybe he did and the guy turned him down??
Maybe this idiot wasn't PVP flagged and can't be beat down by friends who are looking for him??
And just so you all know, I walked outside the cantina and did yell for help. I said something like "I am being harrassed by a gentlemen who is over the line and won't stop can someone help me out please he has me on follow and won't stop"
Not one person in that town came forward out of the 20+ men running around me.
And why the hell should I have to "get a thicker skin" then what I already havewhen I made it clear to stop?
NO meant NO, and at that point my skin shouldn't have to get any thicker than it already is. Game or not, he heard no, he understood the word no, but thought he would push it thinking he was immune to punishment and openly mocked the fact nothing would happen to him for it and continued to get even worse.
My final breaking point was when he used a word a few times that sounds like "hunt" but starting with the third letter of the alphabet.
Now tell me, why should I put up being called that word because I won'tput out in a game....I don't know any company who considers that word being used in a negative way to a female pixel outside of role play to be acceptable.
Wow, I thought we musicians had problems with tips and AFK performers, well
dancers you win. You got the bigger problems, of course you also get the
bigger tips.
I'm a male Twi'lek, and my character is not exactly seedy [well not
especially seedy for a musician] but in RP, he has very conflicted feelings
about female entertainers. He goes back and forth between wanting to protect
them from customer abuse to looking at them as little more then property
where everything has a price.
That's what being raised by two-generations of pleasure dancers will do to a
guy, hehe.
BUT ... the moment someone says OOC I'm not into this RP, it's over. That's
it.
I might push, flirt, tease and abuse, but once someone says anything OOC to
stop, it's over .. just like that. PG-13 is my rule of thumb for all public
conversation, which includes your standard variety curses, but only reserves
the s-word for extreme occasions and the f-word never.
I'm trying to get out of the habit of using /tells for anything but OOC
conversation because some better RP-ers who are mentoring me said that's
typically how it's used and that seems to make sense.
Thanks for publicly voicing your issues, IC-wise I really don't care. But
IRL, nothing could be more important then you dancers feeling safe in game
and not stressed and harassed ... unsafe, stressed and harassed in RP is
completely different though. I imagine most dancers are like that at least
in the beginning of their careers.
jolo
For me I understand that there are plenty of morons and idiots out there, but the "it's just a game" comment honestly has no valid ground. So since your playing in a game the "character" is someone you act through, a face you put on and act differently then you would in real life. Same thing with a job, I highly doubt anyone acts the exact same way they do at work then they do when not at work (well 90% of us act at least somewhat differently I'd think), and so you put on a "face" and act through that character at work. You don't have to put up with it at work, you don't have to put up with it in the game.
And for those of you who favor the "it's a game" arguement, don't even try to say that it's two totally different things, people are involved in all situations, and when it is clearly said and stated "no" it is ended, then and there, anything further is harrassment. And making comments on peoples personal lives or blaming the person on the recieving end and telling them that they need to "take a look at things" is just placing the blame on them, taking it away from the idiot who can't take no for an answer. Being new to the game, or it being a new game and those comments are IMO pathetic, just cause the game is a week old doesn't mean the person playing it is a week old either. I could go on all night about people like that and the people that defend them in all forms (believe me, I have a lot of fuel to keep that fire going from things having happend to people I care about IRL) but I'm not going to rant anymore.
Note: everything said is my opinion, your not going to change it, not cause I'm always right, but because there are just some things you can't deny, and if you try your only adding to the problem, not helping to solve it
My view (evidently shared by at least some here) is this:
Once you've asked for them to stop, if they don't, that's harrassment. Report 'em.
Just for the record, I'm a guy. I play mostly male characters... my main is a Wookiee brawler/marksman on Corbantis named Abashor. I'm a roleplayer, and as such, I tend to seek out the dancers who actually roleplay their characters rather than just using them as a chance to be vulgar and explicit. (Mind you, I have no problem with someone who roleplays their character in a sexually forward way... so long as they demonstrate some skill in doing so, rather than just taking off their clothes and making obscene comments). Likewise, I tend to treat the dancers with a certain degree of respect.
As a roleplayer, I think it's important that people be able to play the character they want to play... and some people will play some pretty unsavory characters. By the same token, not everyone wants to deal with that, and consent is a very large part of a multiplayer game environment like this one.
So, if a person makes a comment, and you don't like it, and you ask them to stop (preferably OOC... IC they may not realize you're not just roleplaying back), and they don't stop, they should be reported.
Of course, there are other solutions as well, if you're the sort that prefers to take matters into your own hands. I do sometimes play female characters, and I try very hard to roleplay those as well (in fact, the main reason I play female characters at all is for the roleplaying challenge of playing someone radically *different* from myself). I have a female marksman (will ultimately be a Pistoleer) on one of the RP servers who dances as a hobby... and you can bet if anyone gets too forward with her, she'll challenge them on the spot. And if they refuse, she'll openly mock them for being too little of a man to face her. Because that's the kind of character she is.
But I understand that solution isn't for everyone, and I definitely agree that once someone has been asked to stop, whatever happens to them after that is their own fault.
I don't think this situation should be considered sexual harassment. This guy is RPing a make-believe character trying to hook up with another made-up character. No harm can be done. It's easy to blow someone like him off. And if he contiues, provoke him in a duel. Talk back. If you can't stand up for yourself, then you shouldn't be playing MMORPGs, or online games of any sort. Smack talk was always present in online gaming, and always will be. The only thing you can do is ignore it. I'm not saying that smack talk should be exercised, but come on!
And remember, right on front of the box, it says that "the rating may change during online play"...