Dancer Archive
Thread: Help Save A Playstyle!!!
Hobbytla
Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:18 am
#27
Petronela wrote:
I’m not sure if I understand this correctly, never been a merchant, but am a shopoholic.
I like the idea of having an option to “window-shop” and then make up my mind to which shop I want to go.
But if this change gives an option to buy goods directly from Bazzar I find it very lame.
I hate to bring up the “other” games and how it works there but wouldn’t the way it’s done in EQ2 kind of make both sides happy here also?
EQ2: Broker (Bazzar) lists all the items available for sale, but if you buy directly from there you pay 20% more (broker fee/tax) for the item, however if you use Broker (Bazzar) only as a reference to see what is where at what price and make the trip to the actual vendor you save 20%.
Plus this way many people (me definitely included) who are impulsive shoppers would use Bazzar to see who has what at price I can afford, but when I get to the actual vendor and see the entire inventory I will most likely buy more then just the item I came for originally.
Like I said.. not a merchant and not totally sure if I understand this argument correctly so please excuse my ignorance if I’m totally of track here.
Deli'ah
I think this pretty much is the suggestions which merchants themselves had for a vendor search before this patch even saw light of day. To be used as advertizing but without making the merchant profession useless.
Else-Whira
Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:35 am
#28
I've read pages and pages of arguments against this and every one of them reads like a Chicken Little, "the sky is falling" rant. There is not one solid argument against this change. It's a few people that are emotional essay writers claiming this change will destroy their game play without any kind of facts. The truth is that you have no idea how this change will affect your game play because it's adding in a radical change and it's going to cause you to have to adpat.
Master Merchant will still mean everything it does already. The ability to place tents, the ability to sell more items at one time, the ability to place those god awful barker droids (something I think is by far the worst idea that has ever been pushed through), the ability to list your vendor on the planetary map, lowered costs for selling your items. All that will change is that you will now have MORE competition and a much larger potential customer base.
Adapt or be destroyed. That is what business is all about, and as a merchant you are business people.
Master Merchant will still mean everything it does already. The ability to place tents, the ability to sell more items at one time, the ability to place those god awful barker droids (something I think is by far the worst idea that has ever been pushed through), the ability to list your vendor on the planetary map, lowered costs for selling your items. All that will change is that you will now have MORE competition and a much larger potential customer base.
Adapt or be destroyed. That is what business is all about, and as a merchant you are business people.
Treena_Daal
Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:48 am
#29
Else-Whira wrote:
the ability to place those god awful barker droids (something I think is by far the worst idea that has ever been pushed through)
I'll agree with that. Words cannot describe how much I hate those things.
NJ62
Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:00 am
#30
Else-Whira wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
There are better ways to provide global searching that don't ruin the playstyle of many merchants.
I didn't want just global searching. I wanted to give my customers the ability to buy from any term ala the first draft. I was furious when you correspondents shouted the idea down. Ask Jenden cause he got an earful (err eyeful? lol) from me about it.
I personally think this is an example of the few holding the many hostage. I *am* a master merchant too, who is my voice?
51 pages of feedback in the "in dev" forum and 18 pages of feedback in the merchant forum... but the correspondents shouted it down, holding the many hostage? The players gave direct feedback, and you could have too.
It's insulting to the devs to imply that they are correspondent lackeys who blindly follow correspondent opinions that are contrary to direct community feedback, and it is insulting to the corrs to suggest that they are pushing their personal agendas at the expense of their communities.
Else-Whira
Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:26 am
#31
When the correspondents start poo pooing a change the forum band wagon goes with them. This has always been the case and you know it.
I want the change and have wanted the change and all I get for showing my approval is a few people giving me one star and posting essays with no facts to support wild claims of impending doom.
I want the change and have wanted the change and all I get for showing my approval is a few people giving me one star and posting essays with no facts to support wild claims of impending doom.
Serratia
Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:55 am
#32
Else-Whira wrote:
MasterDancer will still mean everything it does already. The ability to perform dances, the ability to heal mind wounds and battle fatigue, the ability togive mind buffs(something I think is by far the worst idea that has ever been pushed through), the ability toregister on the planetary map,minimal costs for selling your services. All that will change is that you will now have MORE competition and a much larger potential customer base.
Adapt or be destroyed. That is what business is all about, and as anentertainer you are business people.
Sound familiar? After changing just a few words, this reply reads exactly like a justification for continued botting.
Entertainers who complain about having no economic viability in today's cantina are often told, "Nothing is stopping you from running a macro and going AFK too." Should those of us who enjoy playing and performing live be *forced* into the bot "playstyle" just to make a decent living?
There are as many different ways to play a Merchant as there are ways to play an Entertainer. Should merchants who enjoy providing consistent,quality service at a well-stocked, nicely-decorated store in a convenient location be *forced* into the "Wal-Mart" no-frills, lowest-price-wins playstyle to be successful?
For both ents and merchants, the crux of the matter is, "It doesn't matter how many credits I make if every aspect of the profession I actually *enjoy* is removed." For many, perhaps even most dedicated merchants, the changes as they went to Test Center mean that all the fun is gone.
Else-Whira
Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:50 pm
#33
Serratia wrote:Sound familiar? After changing just a few words, this reply reads exactly like a justification for continued botting.
Entertainers who complain about having no economic viability in today's cantina are often told, "Nothing is stopping you from running a macro and going AFK too." Should those of us who enjoy playing and performing live be *forced* into the bot "playstyle" just to make a decent living?
There are as many different ways to play a Merchant as there are ways to play an Entertainer. Should merchants who enjoy providing consistent, quality service at a well-stocked, nicely-decorated store in a convenient location be *forced* into the "Wal-Mart" no-frills, lowest-price-wins playstyle to be successful?
For both ents and merchants, the crux of the matter is, "It doesn't matter how many credits I make if every aspect of the profession I actually *enjoy* is removed." For many, perhaps even most dedicated merchants, the changes as they went to Test Center mean that all the fun is gone.
Do you really want to know what the difference is here? Someone NOT playing their character and taking away your playability vs a design change that allows you to have MORE not LESS options. A system that gives you more customers and more potential earnings. This change also helps take away a good portion of the spam from the game as advertising via spam will be alot less productive than listing your items on the baazar.
So no, it does not sound familiar because it is not the same argument. However one could easily draw the comparison between the people that defend the buff bots saying that entertainers are going to take away THEIR easy money, guaranteed buffs. These are the major arguments I am seeing right now for this change, "They are going to negate my location" "They are going to make us lower prices" "They are going to take away our spam as advertising" "They are going to allow other merchants and artisans to sell items effectively" "The economy will be destroyed because shoppers will be able to buy the lowest priced item".
I obviously do not agree that this will harm merchants in fact all I see here is a wider open market place. The merchants that keep on eye on the market will continue to buy low and sell high and earn their credits. The shops they decorate will continue to exist and they will still have customers come there who know the shop is a good place to find those goods or to pickup custom orders.
Maisland
Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:02 pm
#34
I know that I feel that being able to list your vendor on the bazaar should be a skill gained in the Advertising line of Merchant.
As a customer: I prefer to go directly to the vendor to make my purchases and won't buy directly off the bazaar if they keep that feature in when it goes live... and since you have to go there to pick your purchases up anyway, why not make it so you have to go there to buy? Many people brought up what I thought were viable arguments against buying on the bazaar in the original thread on this. I do like being able to search for that particular item that I have been looking for for weeks (if not months) with no success (all too many vendors that I have gone to have only a handful of items in stock... none of which I want). I also tend to browse any other vendors in a shop where I have gone to buy something. That is my take as a customer.
As for my characters that have Merchant skills, I like this. I believe that it will expand my customer base... and none of my characters that have Merchant have big shops... my shops are more like the Mom & Pop store on the corner. I like that I will be able to MOVE my shops from Vendor Ally outside of Coronet to my home town and people will still be able to buy from me. Not to mention that it will bring those who do buy from me TO MY HOME TOWN in order to pick up their purchases. I see this as also benefiting my neighbors in my home town who have shops near where I would place mine. I do think that people should not be able to buy the items on Vendors from the bazaar... though for different reasons than my perspective on this as a customer.ManyMerchantsdon't want someone who has been banned from their shops buying thier items on the bazaar... and I agree with this. That is my take as a Merchant.
All in all, there are valid reasons to NOT be able to buy vendor items from the bazaar, from BOTH sides of the transaction... but the search tool is great!
Else-Whira
Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:13 pm
#35
Maisland, make sure you make your voice known in the TC thread and the merchant forum because those of us who want this change and see it as positive are being one starred and insulted out of having a voice. If you truly want this, you have to let them know now while the devs are still watching the debate.
Pappi
Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:19 pm
#36
Treena_Daal wrote:
See, I see it as the exact opposite. Merchants basically set up their version of Buffbots (vendors), and walk off to do something else. They think that by setting up a vendor, putting it onto the planetary vendor list, and maybe setting up one of those infernally annoying spam-bots, they've done their part. Now they get to go off and fight, or craft, or do anything else they want, while still playing as a merchant. With this change comming in, you'll have to find a way to stand out, just like we do.
wow, I don't know if I should take this as an insult or not. that is a gross generalization of merchants, just as people describing buffbots to be the norm of entertaining. I thought entertainers would understand this...
I rarely walk out of my shop. as a tailor/merchant, my tent IS my full time job. I play my tailor no different than my entertainer or politician:
I walk out of (my shop/cantina/city) for my (tri-weekly village visit/meet up with friends/testing). I go to the bazaar to check out deals on the way, and /addignore every spammer I come across (including docs). I head back to (my shop/cantina/city), and (craft to restock vendors/dance to entertain/chat with people in my city) until the cycle start again.
LeBob
Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:48 pm
#37
It is not accurate to relate entertainer buff bots to Merchant's vendors. Entertainers are not agents for Entertainers; they are Entertainers. To say that Merchant's vendors are the same as entertainer buff bots is to say that the only playstyle available for Merchants is to stand around and directly sell things to people all day, and this is not true. For this to be true, "Merchants" would be called "Sellspersons", and people of this profession would not run vendors; they would be the vendors.
Message Edited by LeBob on 03-16-2005 05:49 PM
Aynianu
Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:17 pm
#38
Im a Tailor first and foremost, i enjoy dancing, i enjoy music, i enjoy most crafting proffessions in some way. However im a Tailor.
This change will effect me in a big way as i spend 90% of my time standing infront of my vendors, expanding, restocking or filling custom orders.
Ive only read descriptions of the change so im unsure exactly how it will effect the community on Farstar (where i live) or even if its effects will be noticable.
Ive no doubt my 4000 items of clothing will be one of, if not 'the' most visible brand of clothing on this new browsing system. But i dont know how it will effect me, there are many tailors with far inferior selections than me yet cheaper in price. Will people search for cheapest price and travel to multiple locations or pay more and get eveything in one place?
If majority of people will go for the 'buying everything in one place' i fear smaller tailors will be drowned out. If people will travel willing to pay a little less then my customer base may become less over time, i may become just 'a tailor' rather than as well known as i currently seem to be. I can only see what will happen i guess.
Treena_Daal
Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:15 pm
#39
LeBob wrote:It is not accurate to relate entertainer buff bots to Merchant's vendors. Entertainers are not agents for Entertainers; they are Entertainers. To say that Merchant's vendors are the same as entertainer buff bots is to say that the only playstyle available for Merchants is to stand around and directly sell things to people all day, and this is not true. For this to be true, "Merchants" would be called "Sellspersons", and people of this profession would not run vendors; they would be the vendors.
Perhaps that is the root of my problem. I come from EverQuest and EverQuest 2. Whenever I have had a desire to sell things, I either had to seek people who wanted to buy them out, or (later) I would sit in the bazaar/ my inn room and sell them myself. I personally feel that Merchants should be a lot like us. They should have to be there to sell their items. I'm a Marksman and a Dancer. If I am out shooting rockmites, I am not getting experience or money from dancing. That's the way I feel it should be. But I openly admit that my experiences may distort my views. But that is still the way I view it.