Dancer Archive
Thread: whats the big freakin deal about AFK's in cantinas?
bleaqheart wrote:
Where are all these "real" entertainers who keep popping in to have a conversation? Funny, I hardly *ever* see any "real" entertainers coming in, grouping up, and carrying on in gossip or debate or anything else resembling "just hanging out and having fun". Did you somehow lose the keys to the cantina? Are all the afk'ers blocking the entrance? I don't think so, since one or two of you manage to come in to whine and complain about "the good old days" now and then. Here's another question, where are all the Masters?The people with the *good* mind buffs? The *fast* mental heals? These *engaging* conversations that keep me wanting to stay and listen? Where is all of this?
If the cantinas are *only* filled with afk'ers macro'ing their ways to an FSCS, it is YOUR fault for leaving, not theirs for coming.
Short answer to the first paragraph: it's gone. I rarely see it anymore. Most of them have moved on to other games, other professions, or gig-style performances only.
I'm assuming the point to this post was the last sentence. That statement assumes that the last wrongdoing is the one to blame. My position is that the first wrongdoing is the one to blame. In fact, I would argue that it's every wrongdoing that is at fault. It's a matter of consequence, the chain of events that lead to the "real" entertainers leaving the cantinas. Real entertainers leaving is a consequence of AFK macroing cantinas, not the other way around. And AFK macroing cantinas are a consequence of limitless macroing capabilities coupled with very little engaging content (and Holocrons).
If you're implying that maybe we, as entertainers, should make a stand in the cantinas where we play, the truth is we have been and have been fighting a losing battle. AFK macroers are oblivious to everything--they don't care what happens around them because they're not really there to experience it. We real entertainers, on the other hand, are subject to and experience everything. There are no tools to battle an AFK entertainer, and I think most of us would rather not even bother--we're out to have fun in this game (like you) and if leaving the cantinas will provide that, so be it.
I hope that helps.
Pendarin wrote:
Short answer to the first paragraph: it's gone. I rarely see it anymore. Most of them have moved on to other games, other professions, or gig-style performances only.
By the way, what you're looking for used to be VERY common when the game started 6 months ago (and especially before that during beta). That's what people are referring to. Judging by your reg date (10/17, assuming this is your only account), you've never witnessed what we're talking about. It's unfortunate that that is the case and is the #1 reason there is so much animosity toward AFK macroing--it has destroyed what we used to enjoy, and indeed, made the whole entertainer class less appealing to others.
Thank you though, for answering my questions without hypothetical "If I shoot someone it's their faultfor dying" references.(that still makes no sense to me by the way)
Thats the reason I posted it... it is the same reasoning you are using with entertainers and cantinas. Cause and effect. The real entertainers left because of Macrotainers. Not the other way round.
I just noticed your registration date and maybe I have to apologize. If you really play since the end of october, you probably really don't know what I was talking about. Thats not your fault. It's SOEs fault. Those AFK-free cantinas with chatty people, good atmosphere and fun for everyone are not a wet dream of some psychopaths here... they did exist, we have seen them with our own eyes. Until the AFK-plague swamped the cantinas and made them the crowded but bizarely sterile environments they are today, where you don't find live entertainers any more.
Have you ever been personally greeted by an entertainer upon entering a cantina ?
Have you ever successfully ( i.e. including a reaction from a human being, not a macro ) flirted with an entertainer ?
Have you ever seen a group in matching outfits ?
Have you ever seen a group doing band flourishes ( syncron dancing mostly ) ?
Chances are you haven't and chances are you aren't to blame for that, because the cantinas have been taken over by the very opposite of entertaining: AFKers. I mean what is more boring than someone who's not online ? Watching the paint peel in my living room is a really tense experience compared to a Macrotainers performance.
We tried to fight back, but it's a battle you cannot win, especially when SOE creates Holocrons and encourages unattended gameplay by not punishing it. Go to Theed and ask yourself if 5 people who would like to entertain could do any of the five things above in that sea of 20 spamming Macrotainers. They could manage 3 with some work. 3/5 very basic entertainer qualifications. Entertaining is doing 6/5 creativly adding new ideas on the way to master, not being a coded macro gaining xp for their player. Entertainers no longer entertain the masses, because the environment is no longer fruitful for having fun.
The real entertainers are not to blame for something they wanted to stop from the beginning. People did something to them maliciously ( or at least not caring for the consequences as long as there is personal gain ) and it's not the victims fault. Maybe you see a parallel to my shooting statement and why my shooting statement indeed is nonsense, because it's built on the same cause/effect model you applied, which is twisting around cause and effect. I invite you to join the next BLUES gig on Gorath where the band can bring guests and see what entertaining could be and has been in most cantinas. We aren't putting that much work in it, we just use what is given to any novice entertainer. It's a shame people don't use it and simply copy a macro... no wonder they think it's boring.
I fail to see how it could be our fault for anything.
Just like it's not a comando's fault that some Marksman killed all of the squill in a given area. The Cantinas used to be full (sometimes 2 full groups which is 40 people) of non afk entertainers.
Then the afk trickled in... then more... and more... eventually people get sick of hearing the same stupidAFK message "Come enjoy the show" yeah... the show... riiiight "Don't forget to tip the dancers!" Like I tip my waiter for not serving my food... "Heals are welcome"
When this cycles over... and over... and over. Sure, you can /addignore. That's easy when it is one person. But when suddenly the room is 50/50? It's a little tough. Or when you find that out of 20 people... you are the only one who is actually at the keyboard? Waste my time putting all of the star wars population on/addignore? ::snorts:: as if.
How about the dork dancing into the wall... over and over....
When I have to spend a long time in an area.... I want it to be pleasant. If I have to leave my home city to do it.... so be it.
Do you know how many times those of us 'old timers' had to listen to some combatant tell us that our profession sucked and that we needed a real job and if we wanted tips that we should do missions like everyone else? Raise your hand girls and guys. Yeah. We remember.
We are not required to sit around and suffer in a terrible playing 'environment' (The entertainer profession is a SOCIAL one.
that lacks RP or even OOC speach since NO ONE is actually at the keyboard. We leave the places where tips are poor.... and the game experience sucks... and we go to the places where we can actually have fun. We do not have to suffer 50 credit tips from a master commando. See. We are to work in harmony WITH the combatants, not suffer their attitude and the scraps they toss us.
For moths we have been ignored and verbally abused. But guess what? One day we got tired of it. And now the combatants are left with Macrobots.
The fault is not ours. We have EVERY RIGHT to find greener pastures. The fault lies with those who SUPPORT the AFK people.
We, however, have chosen to move on. Many of us joined guilds where we are taken care of and respected. As opposed to insulted. Reap what you sow. And don't blame us.
Likewise, Dancers who have not found a home! Get out of the NPC towns. Go find a guild that will welcome you with open arms. Don't suffer the immature, and do't suffer the NPC bots. LET them have the NPC cantina since they are hardly better than an NPC themselves. Those dancers who came before us left and made their own fun. We can do the same without dropping to their level. The Holocrons can have the musty NPC's as far as I am concerned.
I'm a lone little Ahazi Dancer on Lok, my cantina is empty except for myself and an onery little Squall. And Hopefully some pharple soon too. If you need a city, A guild that lives for getting beaten up, and a quiet place to fine tunethose dances, then give me an in game mail. Or snatch one of the other master dancers and make them tell you where they find sanctuary from the holocron!
Are all the afk'ers blocking the entrance?
No."
Actually now that you mention it, the Theed cantina on my server now has a full group in the usual dance area... and another group all crowded just inside the door. So yeah, as a matter of fact, the AFKers ARE blocking the entrance. 
With all due respect Tekoa:
As far as my career is concerned, joining a guild is about as sure a way as I know to be in the poor house. Please, do tell me how joining a PA will put more tips into my bank account. And to that individual who likes AFK bots, what advice would you give to us entertainers who wish to perform live, but want credits from patrons like yourself?
bleaqheart wrote:
The registration date on this forumis completely disconnected from my game start date, which was back in June. I've been in game for every major publish, and even vaguely recall the details of the daily T21 fixes. Nice try, but misdirection and distraction of the point isn't going to work. Over the last couple of months, I have seen fewer and fewer live entertainers in the cantinas, my conclusion, after this day-long spat. You're a bunch of snobs, too good for someone who just wants to be at the top of their profession's potential.No one really needs you any more, and I for one no longer care that you all left. And yes, I used to care. But you left me no choice but to watch, listen, and tip someone who wouldn't even know I'd been there. Good bye.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out
I'm not sure if you're referring to my posts, someone else's posts, or both so I'll assume mine.
The registration date on this forumis completely disconnected from my game start date, which was back in June. I've been in game for every major publish, and even vaguely recall the details of the daily T21 fixes. Nice try, but misdirection and distraction of the point isn't going to work.
It has nothing to do with misdirection or distraction. It was a statement of fact based on an assumption (that the board reg date = game reg date). I am now informedthat it isunreliable. I didn't want my first post to be misunderstood had you not experienced what it used to be like in the cantinas, so I offered the extra explanation.
Over the last couple of months, I have seen fewer and fewer live entertainers in the cantinas, my conclusion, after this day-long spat.
That has been my assessment as well and over the past 6 months it has gotten steadily worse.
You're a bunch of snobs, too good for someone who just wants to be at the top of their profession's potential.
Aconclusion about entertainers from someone who has never claimed to be an entertainer. Maybe we are snobs, but with all that we have to put up with, I don't see how anyone could blame us. You may not have realized that those who "just want to be at the top of their profession's potential" more often than not drop the profession in less than a couple week's time anyway so what does it matter to the rest of us?
No one really needs you any more, and I for one no longer care that you all left. And yes, I used to care. But you left me no choice but to watch, listen, and tip someone who wouldn't even know I'd been there. Good bye.
You shouldn't have to care at all--this isn't about you. It's about us. It's about walking into the only place in the game whereI can be useful and finding 15 otheravatars there that asinteresting as a rockbut are just as useful as I am. It's about turning what myself and folks like me consider an accomplishment into just another mastered profession. It's about trying to be really entertaining among macro spam andempty avatarscrowding the floor. That isn't fun and there is nothing I can do about it. What am I supposed to do? Stay?
I would like to extend my apologies to the Dancer community...the TRUE Dancer community...
Because, while I sit here at work, my character is merrily dancing away in a cantina on Starsider on my computer at home...all on the whim of a little blue cube.
I would like to say that I honestly have the utmost respect for those who have chosen Dancer as their profession in this game. A close friend, who I have met through the game, is a Master Dancer on Bria. When I told her about my holo on Starsider, she laughed and didn't seem to mind the fact that I was "macro-taining" my way through.
I will *hopefully* reach Master by the end of the week, and cross my fingers for a holo that will get me back out hunting with my friends. From what I've seen when I've enteracted with my group mates on Starsider, Dancers and Musicians who have chosen these professions are some really great people. I just wasn't cut out to be an entertainer.
So, I'll master my holo and move on out of your way as quickly as possible. I just want to let yall know that when I am actually at my keyboard, I'm enjoying my little jaunt through your world.
Ok I'm a master dancer because I chose it.... not because a little box told me I had too... actually the little box said master armorsmith.. now i'm hating life hee hee.
On the way up to master dancer I both AFK and live danced... I stayed in theed where on my server it is kind of understood that it is the fast track cantina and is always flooded with entertainers and often has 2 mostly full groups running at once.
in the evenings I was live playing and interactiving with people great group of people there at the time. At bedtime I went afk letting my group know so they could bump me out if the group was full and they needed the space... I place myself in one of the rooms off to the side facing the wall while I danced.
sometimes I got bumped out of game overnight.. but not usually. if I did I would log back in set myself back up and go to work.... after work I would come home and be a "live dancer again" this went on for about 4 days I don't think I turned my computer off at all in that time.... had a blast met a lot of nice people. Still a master dancer for over a month (gonna have my own cantina in about 4 days).
also while mastering scout I found the best way to lure people into my camps was offering free mind buffs (only 8 minutes) grin.... mass survival exp just having them lining up waiting.
The registration date on this forumis completely disconnected from my game start date, which was back in June. I've been in game for every major publish, and even vaguely recall the details of the daily T21 fixes. Nice try, but misdirection and distraction of the point isn't going to work. Over the last couple of months, I have seen fewer and fewer live entertainers in the cantinas, my conclusion, after this day-long spat. You're a bunch of snobs, too good for someone who just wants to be at the top of their profession's potential.No one really needs you any more, and I for one no longer care that you all left. And yes, I used to care. But you left me no choice but to watch, listen, and tip someone who wouldn't even know I'd been there. Good bye.
You have been in every major publish. You have seen the number of AFKers swell and real entertainers leave. You know the state the cantinas are in now. You know despite tons of people afk mastering the profession you won't find a master when you need one. You know real entertainers are complaining about it.And you draw the conclusion that it's our fault because we're snobs ?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !
Sorry. Good bye. Tell me when you passed grade school physics where they try to teach cause and effect.
Well first I must appoligize, I'm an AFK Macro Dancer 
Well for the most part.....My second character dances in Theed while I play my first character on my other computer....I alway's watch my dancer but don't spend a lot of time in conversation with her until late at night when my first character doesn't really need to be online anymore 
Now I'm not grinding for a Holo, I'm grinding to be a Dancer/musician who will own her own Cantina in the player city I'm in, well the plan anyway, and she will be AFK basically the whole time she is there too! So I have spent a lot of time trying to create interesting new macros for her to run, for example she has a stripper macro I run when asked to *Not everyone likes that one I know*, But I hope this doesn't offend anyone it is just the best way for me to occomplish this! It is the way the game has become over the months...Again for any of the Dancer's out there who are offened by this, I'm sorry...But Johydee is a Career AFK entertainer I don't think you ever heard that before