Dancer Archive
Thread: No more buffs for me.
Panthu
Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:52 am
#27
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
Panthu said...
If that floats your boat great. Some people really get off on suffering.. Self imposed or otherwise. But I REALLY hate the martyr role myself.
Oh, well see? I think spending game skill points, game money, game time, and rl money on something that isn't even supposed to give me anything other than the option to do some other game profession just to pay for the one I want to be doing sounds like a Martyr Game Role to me. Wow, guess we'll just have to see this one differently.
Afk and Buff Bots are not our only Dancer Issues... perhaps you should find something else you can fight for and get behind. Maybe our Performance Enhancement list? Maybe better Promo tools? Maybe you would even be interested in my pet topic, Cantina Revamps with Social Games with Teaming and Competitive Aspects?
Or, you could just not have any issues at all. If you are so happy with the tools, content, and abilities we have now, maybe you could just try making happy posts about Events and such. 
IrinaStarsinger
Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:56 am
#28
Goldy Read what she said. Shes a Kept Dancer.. She doesnt HAVE to compete in the world of cantinas. Thats great and Im glad for her. I make my living and income doing ID for an hour or so a day. That leaves me free to Dance and Entertain as much as I like.
But I'm not going to waste MY time competing with buffbots that are for all intents and purposes Sanctioned and Approved by SOE.
Cantinas these days are hellholes and Zombie pits.. I'm also not going to waste my time trying to have a conversation in a place so full of spam that the chat window looks like the wheels on a slot machine.
So I'll go entertain people elsewhere. If you and others want tocompete as an aTk buffbot with the officially sanctioned AFK buffbots... Have at it.. I wish you the best. Talk about banging ones head on a brick wall..... Thats sort of like attacking Krayt Dragons and Nightsisters as a Novice Brawler.
But I see Entertaining as a Social profession and it's not possible to carry out a Social activity in a Zombie Spam pit. SoI choose NOT to.
Panthu
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:09 am
#29
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
Goldy Read what she said. Shes a Kept Dancer.. She doesnt HAVE to compete in the world of cantinas. Thats great and Im glad for her. I make my living and income doing ID for an hour or so a day. That leaves me free to Dance and Entertain as much as I like.
No no no, you seem to have missed my point... my guild pays me as their "Dancer." They tip me just like my Patrons in the NPC Cantinas. Just like the people who pay me to go on hunts as a Dancer.
My use of the word "kept" was meant to imply that I am paid very well for your style of entertaining. So well that I'm a Guild Officer that does nothing other than chat with people and Entertain them with my Dance Animations and crazy costumes.
I interact with all player types as a Dancer... and I am paid for it in a number of different ways. I was trying to point out that I do it your way too. I seem to be having better luck with it than you do.
Sorry for wanting to help you be able to make as much money Dancing as I do. I'm going to keep fighting for the other Dancers though, oki? 
I actually make more money Dancing than I do as a Master ID, even though I do ID pretty much every time I log on. It probably has something to do with the fact that I let Leveling IDs do my customers' stats andany other changes they candoif they are in the Salon when I get there, but again, just another difference in playstyles I guess. *shrug* Weird.
Wendelius
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:11 am
#30
Goldy_Lhim wrote:I'm going to say this again. STOP CALLING ME AN ATK BUFFBOT! Omg you are just trying to start a fight now, I swear.
LOL! Well said Goldy. Accepting the whole of the profession as part of the gameplay experience (and thus performing in cantinas too) hardly makes one an ATK buffbot, a bad entertainer or someone who craves martyrdom.
IrinaStarsinger
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:14 am
#31
Goldy. did I refer to YOU as an aTk buffbot? I read back over whatI wrote and I dont see where I did that.
But to ME... The Buffbot is the SOE sanctioned method for delivering mind buffs. THAT'S not really something in dispute. It pretty obvious from all thats been going on and the SOE position on the issue. You can refuse to ackowledge that if you choose to. ButI think the facts speak pretty clearly.
That being said.. that makes Buffbots the delivery mechanism for Mind buffs. So someone who delivers mindbuffs is a buffbot to my way of thinking.
There are two kinds.. AFK buffbots.... and ATK buffbots. I think the decision of the players over the last few months has made it clear that THEY have voted for the AFK buffbots. They have voted with their money and their attention. We can yell about it. We can condemn it, but the votes are in and the AFK buffbots have won hands down. The population voted and we can live with the results of their vote or scream about it.. But we're not going to change it. Its not OUR call to make. Its the PLAYERS call and THEY made the choice.
Now that they have... fine. I'll live with the choice they made and which SOE supports and I'll do something else. I'll go BACk to my roots as a Dancer. I'll Entertain. I'll do soemthing NO buffbot in the world can do and I'll enjoy EVERY moment of it!
Goldy_Lhim
Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:30 am
#32
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
So I'll go entertain people elsewhere. If you and others want tocompete as an aTk buffbot with the officially sanctioned AFK buffbots... Have at it.. I wish you the best. Talk about banging ones head on a brick wall..... Thats sort of like attacking Krayt Dragons and Nightsisters as a Novice Brawler.
Right there. You say those atk dancers that buff "buffbots" and you also call my style of play futile. It may not have said "Goldy you are a buffbot" but you lumped me and any other dancer that dances in cantinas and offers to buff into the group of the AFK zombies. Something I'm not particularly crazy about being called, just a silly thing about me.
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
Goldy. did I refer to YOU as an aTk buffbot? I read back over whatI wrote and I dont see where I did that.
But to ME... The Buffbot is the SOE sanctioned method for delivering mind buffs. THAT'S not really something in dispute. It pretty obvious from all thats been going on and the SOE position on the issue. You can refuse to ackowledge that if you choose to. ButI think the facts speak pretty clearly.
That being said.. that makes Buffbots the delivery mechanism for Mind buffs. So someone who delivers mindbuffs is a buffbot to my way of thinking.
There are two kinds.. AFK buffbots.... and ATK buffbots. I think the decision of the players over the last few months has made it clear that THEY have voted for the AFK buffbots. They have voted with their money and their attention. We can yell about it. We can condemn it, but the votes are in and the AFK buffbots have won hands down. The population voted and we can live with the results of their vote or scream about it.. But we're not going to change it. Its not OUR call to make. Its the PLAYERS call and THEY made the choice.
Now that they have... fine. I'll live with the choice they made and which SOE supports and I'll do something else. I'll go BACk to my roots as a Dancer. I'll Entertain. I'll do soemthing NO buffbot in the world can do and I'll enjoy EVERY moment of it!
X I disagree strongly with being called a buffbot. I'm an entertainer that buffs. But this entire tangent is probably not worth discussing. You're obviously so bitter towards buffs that you now call your fellow ATK bots as well.
I do not advertise buffs. Rarely do I offer to buff. Someone has to find me and choose me over some AFK buffer. I happen to think that he preferred an ATK dancer means he deserves my buff if I have the time to perform one. One small victory for ATK entertainers!
X I can entertain just as well as you. I happen to do it WHILE buffing. So if I'm a "buffbot" by your standards. I sure as hell can do something that you can do and enjoy every moment. But you know what? I'm also useful in a healing capacity!
Don't forget your "roots" are 3/4th healing and buffing!
IrinaStarsinger
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:37 am
#33
LOL. Goldy I'm not the Least bit bitter. QUITE the contrary!!! Bitter is what people become after reading in here all the terrible things that are being done to our profession. Bitter is what drives people to give up the profession and even leave the game completely out of despair.
I was sharing a message of Happiness and Hope. That there IS a way to revive our Profession. But NOT buying into the buff game that SOE has clearly set up to function JUST as its functioning now.
Trying to compete with automated buffbots that provide a service reliably 24/7 is a losing game.
One of the classic definitions of insanity is doing the SAME thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
Thats what we've become... a little insane. We've become SO fixated on Buffbots and AFK spammers that we've Forgotten what Entertaining IS.
Buffing is not Entertaining people. Healing BF is not Entertaining people. Yes that part of what we USED to do. But THAT part of our function has been superceded by buffbots and AFK spammers. Fine.. They CAN'T compete with us as Entertainers.
Buffbots are the WAY buffs are delivered. You may not WANT to admit it but its a fact. Thats called denying reality and is also part of one of the classic definitions of insanity. So when WE try to compete with that we are essentially trying to be... Amusing buffbots. Talking buffbots. NON-macroing buffbots.
Comdemn me all you want. I'm not buying into anymore of the pessimism and despair that our profession has become.
I tried to share a message of Hope and Happiness with people who Dance. Its obviously not welcome. Everyone prefers doom and gloom and Oh theyre being SO mean to us!!! Its all THEIR fault that I'm not rich. They STOLE my customers!!!
Thats the WORST kind of self abuse and victim mentality. I dont DO Victimhood. I DANCE.
So best wishes to you... Go back to telling everyone how bad you're being treated by those mean, nasty old buffbots who STOLE your customers... Oh excuse me... by the computers running a macro. The one's you couldn't attract away from that macroing computer. If THAT makes you happy, revelling in suffering, don't let me stop you. lol
I have to go now and wait for the servers to come back up. Then I'm gonna do an hour or two of ID and make a bunch of money and then...... I'm gonna DANCE!!!!
Wendelius
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:51 am
#34
IrinaStarsinger wrote:Then I'm gonna do an hour or two of ID and make a bunch of money and then...... I'm gonna DANCE!!!!
But remember, only hair style and eye colour, right? Those income generating stat migrations are not ID'ing. Just something SOE threw the way of ID'ers as a class dependency mechanic.
You know, even people who don't totally agree with you do not have to be all about doom and gloom. I'm having fun progressing 2 entertainers on 2 different servers. And I don't need to reject any game mechanics to have fun.
Goldy_Lhim
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:55 am
#35
ok I'm done with this entire thread of thought. Who would have thought that ATK dancers would be pointing fingers at other ATK dancer and calling them no better than the AFK buffbots. Calling me a bot is an insult. AN INSULT. Your dance moves and ways of entertaining are NO DIFFERENT than mine. Yet because I do /setperform in a cantina, I am a bot. You are no better than me, stop calling your playstyle some dancing god-send while I do the same motions while entertaining justoutside a building.
Lets agree to disagree. I'm done trying to "discuss" anything with you.
therealzizz
Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:59 am
#36
I understand your message completely. I also agree with you. If you dont mind..Im just going to put my two credits in..If one is an accomplished Master Dancer/Musician , why should one care about grabbing every single player that comes into a cantina? There are plenty of players to go around..A Master who has been at the game for quite some time should have a long list of established patrons. Therefore, a little buff bot spamming for the customers that have an attention span 3 minutes long shouldn't really bother anyone.More power to them, I feel like I wouldnt want that customer anyway...Those who know me , seek me, and I in return enjoy a satisfying game. This game cannot and willnot change overnight, enjoy what we have, make the most of it. I know I do. So kudos to you my friend..enjoy your travels ..its a great big galaxy out there.
Zizz
Message Edited by therealzizz on 07-29-2004 09:03 AM
Beery
Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:48 am
#37
I believe every flame or trolling post deserves a serious reply. In that spirit...
"They're ALREADY losing Entertainers. They've BEEN losing Entertainers for 6 months. WE represent a VERY small minority of players in what is quite clearly a Combat focused game. If Every Dancer and Musician cancelled their accounts right now, this minute... Its would make a teeny tiny blip on the radar. And with JTL coming out we wouldnt even be noticed.. lol"
Really? I think you underestimate our power. If every dancer and musician cancelled now, where would combat types get BF healed? Maybe you know some other profession that can do it. I don't.
"That being said... We can do one of two things.
We can keep whining and bleating about buffbots and AFK entertainers. Or we can get off our lazy back sides and Reclaim our Profession. The Profession of Entertainer. NOT of buffers and healers."
So cancelling accounts will not help, but merelyrefusing to buff will. Yeah, that really makes perfectsense - I DON'T think.
Regarding "lazy backsides", speak for yourself. IDO entertain in the game. The fact that I'm 'whining and bleating' here is no evidence that I'm not spending just as much (if not more) time as you in the game doing my job. If you think it's laziness that prompts a player to work tirelessly for positive change, I think your perception (and a few other things) may bea bit skewed.
"Personally I prefer Entertaining to sounding like a shrewish fishwife. But you do what you want."
Hmm. Since when did mindless cheerleading ever improve a game system? Nothing ever improves without an honest critical assessment. If you regard critical thinking (what you disdain as "sounding like a shrewish fishwife")as negative, you will always be part of the problem, and never part of the solution.
"You can stand around in the cantina and get high blood pressure getting upset over SOE sanctioned buffbots if you like.
I'll be somewhere outside... Performing."
Erm... who ever said that I wasn't performing? Who ever said that I get high blood pressure? It seems you're trying to create a straw man. You want me to fit into a nice mold you've created so that you can deride me and treat my arguments with scorn. Sadly for your argument, I don't fit into your demonizing mold. I am an entertainer, a happy one, and abloody good one. I'm doing the job. I'm also herecriticizing the game, instead of belittling and demonizingmy fellow entertainers (which is what you're doing). You have your method: a blind lashing out at anyone who criticizes the game. I assure you, your method won't help the game to improve, and it will only alienate you from your fellow players who are willing to face facts.
"Or are you implying that you cant MAKE it as a Performer??? That you can only survive by doing buffs? Then get off YOUR lazy butt and go run some missions. Go survey. Go learn ID. Theres ALWAYS stats to do. Go buy and sell something. Go collect some hides and drop em in the bazaar."
Again, the 'lazy' accusation. You reallymust bea bitter person. You don't know me at all, yet you've already determined that I'm lazy. This is a form of sophistry. It's disingenuous. You're engaging in character assassination, presumably because you're ill-equipped toaddress my argument, or you're too afraid to. Look, if you can't understand a basic reality of a profession - that people expect a profession to pay the bills - I can't help you. You clearly have a seriousdisconnect between objectivereality and yourperception of it. I think it's ludicrous that your best advice for a strugglingentertainer would be to 'go out and get a second job'. Yeah, that's REALLY constructive.
"The question is...... Is Entertaining what you really want to do?? If it IS.... then DO it and stop blaming someone else for our failure."
Oh, so now it's 'our' failure. All the time I was thinking it was the developers' fault for allowing AFKers to prosper to the detriment of honest entertainers, or the buffbot-owners' fault for callously using an exploit that destroys the entertaining professions, but all the time it was my fault for being lazy and whiny. Clearly I created the AFK situation way back before I even started playing the game. How Icould do that is a mystery to me, but there I go using logic - silly me. Obviously my magical negative effect on the game makes perfect sense in your version of reality. Maybe I have a magic wand, or perhaps I'm some kind of weird supervillain witha time machine and hordes of buffbot-wielding minions.
I'm glad that most players live in the real world.
Heck, I came into this discussion on YOUR side! You started this thread with a protest and criticism, yet now it seems you're lashing out at everyone around you who engages in similar criticism and protest. How wonderfullyschizophrenic! What a way to build a consensus Irina! You have a conspicuoustalent for divisiveness. A political party should hire you to join the ranks ofits opponent. Your 'support' would destroy any political movement within days.
The more you rant and belittle the contributions ofothers, the more your individual protest begins to look like a narcissistic crusade. Do us alla favour, lose the attitude.
Message Edited by Beery on 07-29-2004 01:28 PM
Morrigania
Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:53 am
#38
I sorta, kinda,mostly agree with what Irina has been saying in her posts, as I tend to be the same way - I don't go to public cantinas, nor do I buff outside my guild or small circle of friends. I've had much more fun as a dancer since this became my policy. I dance for me first, for the people I want to entertain, second.
I'd be thrilled to death if the devs took buffing away from us, which to me always made about as much sense to meas giving a fish a bicycle. What was once an unique social profession, at this point is just another support class, albeit we dress better and have more style. But buffing in and of itself is nothing special. I can more or less rationalize bf healing to myself - although I wouldn't fuss if that went away too.
Buffbots are a problem, and while I think there will be a fix eventually, it gives me the cold shudders thinking of what what we may wind up with - remember the image designers, gods bless them. We should be very careful what we wish for, because we might get it.
Beery
Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:46 am
#39
I'm an IDer. I don't know what all the fuss is about. I like that we got stat changes added.