Dancer Archive
Thread: Proposal for Fame System / Entertainer Game Content
A huge difference. First of all, it prevents tailors from actually stocking an item on a vendor in a variety of colors. Tailors like to run shops, and not every one wants to do custom work.
Second, a failure on a custom item leaves both tailor and customer feeling awful. Whereas if I'm just making a bunch of items and one fails, it's money lost, but at least I didn't disappoint a customer.
Third, it's the feeling of limitation. I'm a master tailor. I should be able to make all the clothing in the game, as much as I want, in whatever colors I want. When you can simply limit who can wear certain items of clothing, why NOT do it that way?
A lot of tailors don't like the way new articles of clothing are being introduced via limited-use schematics. Read the tailor forums if you don't believe me. I'm sort of stepping in as their representative here, saying "there are better ways to do what you want to do".
Fame means something specific to me. Famousfatwookie is famous, not because he ran a bunch of missions, but because he runs a band, does gigs, is a creative person, is unique and has made a lot of friends. I don't want to live in a world where someone like that has a lower "fame score" than an anti-social powergamer who has simply run a bunch of ent missions in a low-lag player-free area of the game.
However, if you come up with a different name that does NOT have this connotation...say "Performance Points" or "Agent Score" or "Gig Experience", than all my objections vanish.
How's that sound?
picklesSW wrote:
A lot of tailors don't like the way new articles of clothing are being introduced via limited-use schematics. Read the tailor forums if you don't believe me. I'm sort of stepping in as their representative here, saying "there are better ways to do what you want to do".
picklesSW wrote:
Here's an idea. Come up with a different name other than "fame".
Fame means something specific to me. Famousfatwookie is famous, not because he ran a bunch of missions, but because he runs a band, does gigs, is a creative person, is unique and has made a lot of friends. I don't want to live in a world where someone like that has a lower "fame score" than an anti-social powergamer who has simply run a bunch of ent missions in a low-lag player-free area of the game.
However, if you come up with a different name that does NOT have this connotation...say "Performance Points" or "Agent Score" or "Gig Experience", than all my objections vanish.
How's that sound?
I don't think that anyone would ever argue that someone whohad a Fame Rating line item,but was wholly unknown on their server, was trulymore famous a character in thegamethan famousFATWOOKIE, or any other entertainer that was well known to the playerbase as a whole, who hadn't done the system and received the "rating". That would be silly. As an aside, I'm kind of curious now... I'll ask FFW to come take a look over this thread and seeif he thinks it would be an issue for entertainer players.
I guess the way that I've been looking at the 'fame' is more geared to the unknown masses that populate the galaxy - the citizens of static cities, NPC's, and the unseen trillions of "people" that certainly "exist" outside of the player characters. The "little people", if you will... in any RPG environment, there's always a distinction between the Heroes (player characters) who cause change andmake things happen in the environment, and the Commoners (miscellaneous insignificantNPC's) who just fill out the scene with bodies. Real fame (recognition from other PC's), I think, can override and co-exist with artificial fame (some title from within a system for fun).
Heh.. along those lines, I just thought it might be fun to get static city NPC's in on the act. You know how NPC Stormtroopers let high-ranking Imperial officers /slap them and get away with it (one of the few tangible "perks" of faction rank)? What if with sufficiently high Fame Ratings, NPC cityfolk would do the /cheer animations as you walked by? They'll already turn and do the foot-tapping, clapping animation if we dance or play near them... and the /cheer animation is a part of that loop. They're already coded for a check to see if someone's performing nearby... could just add the check for high Fame Ratings to trigger /cheers...
Okay, back on topic...
If the semantics of the systemis a show-stopper problem for enough people, and suchthat wouldruin the entire concept andturn this intoun-fun content, it would certainly have to change. The point is to provide fun things to do, not to attack or defend the labels used to refer to that content.
It could change to Performance Points for example, and all of the Ratings levels could be simply Level VI Rating and such. I personally think that lacks color, and makes the whole thing a bit more dry. There's just something not quite as fun for meabout being an 18th level dancer, rather than being a Diva. /shrug
Well, let's hope then for some more community feedback about this. If everyone hates the idea of the labels being in the Fame arena, let's look for alternatives.
PoetDancer wrote:
Now what is the risk, and what is the reward? By performing in the cantina now, I risk not getting tipped. So I do things that maximize my chances of getting a tip: greet, amuse, sustain interest, and make a normally tedious time go by smoother. Combat players have a similarly high risk. If they are aggroed by an unusually tough spawn, or they are similarly unable to complete the mission requirements, their consumables get depleted and get NO reward.
But what is the risk here in this plan? And if the risk is not very high, why should the reward be high? A player in this plan gets paid regardless of what they do or do not do at the keys. They could simply type /startdance and leave the computer for a quick, easy (and from the looks of things), disproportionately high reward.
And then I ask again, if we get paid regardless of what we do or not do behind the keys, then why should anyone feel the need to tip us anymore than the easy money we are making?
The first part of your answer comes directly from the original post:
Xyrdre wrote:
A minimum audienceapproval rating (as included in the entertainer quests, or even further improved for complexities?)must be achieved by the end of the performance, or cash payouts and Famepointsare halved (or not awarded at all?). Additionally, audience approval would start to drop back off if the requested flos were used too often (as in, more than thrice in succession), in order to prevent poor performances by simply spamming the 'requested' flos. Yes, there is inherent difficulty in having an AI determine the difference between a 'good' performance and a sloppy one intended to just hit the right combinationsrequested by the AI. Player audience votes may not be a reliable determinant either, as some would just bring friends along to stuff the ballot box with 'good performance' votes. I think that some form of NPC audience approval may yet be the most neutral choice, and the lesser of evils.
Xyrdre wrote:
That said, gig payouts should take into consideration the amount of time required to successfully complete the gig, as well as the number of groupedentertainers required to complete, so that each entertainer is sufficiently compensated for their time spent, in reasonable proportion to what combat missions would generate for those players in a similar amount of time required to complete. It is understood that the average combat player 'sinks' more money into expensive perishables such as weapons and armor (moneys which, as such perishable items aredestroyed through frequent use, rightfully leaves the economy), and that entertainers' expenses commensurate with their entertainment activities are not as high, and moneys taken in by entertainerswill take longer to deplete from the economy. Additionally, gig payouts should have a travel modifier of +1000-2000 credits per planet range (as dictated by existing space lane travel) per entertainerto cover incurred round-triptravel costs.
"Reasonable proportion", and the acknowledgement that credits fromentertainer incomes, with less decay and destruction of high-ticketpurchased items,do not deplete from the overall economic model as rapidly as do combat incomes. Again, I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that these ideas equate to disproportionately high payouts, unless you're merely comparingwith the currentaverage tipping environment of entertainer professionsand entertainer mission payouts, in which case they should be significantly higher - in fact, that is a large part of the point.
I would add to this that the calls for increased mission payouts from this community, and the inclusion of a vehicle in my proposal to address those concerns, are not in trying to maintain the low-paying nature of the Entertainer professions as they currently stand, but to make improvements to incomes in order to provide a more enjoyable gaming experience for attraction and retentionof entertainer players. If the currentcommunity was completely happy with the financial state of the professions as they stand, there would be no call for improved Entertainer missions. If the outside perspective of entertainer finances were perceived to be satisfactory by the rest of the playerbase, we would never see non-entertainers posting on our boards with ideas for how we can make additional moneys on the side to stay afloat.
Really, Sirii... I haven't said much in answering your questions or concerns that did not appear in the original post, or have been commonly discussed pointshere on the Dancer forums.
If you are completely happy with the current environment for the entertainment professions, that's great - and I would add that inclusion of such a proposed Fame and gig mission structure system will not prevent you from your continued pursuit ofyour chosen game play. However, the vast majority of entertainer players are nothappy with the current environment- they would like more content and things to do, more goals to strive for, and access to income thatis not dependent on other player's whims and generosities.
Excellent stuff, gets my vote!
Xyrdre wrote:I'll give some more thought to Tiaga's PvP angle as well... there could be some kind of interesting... something... in there. I'm not sure what it might mean yet either, but it's definitely worth looking at.
BATTLE of the BANDS!!!!
What better way to have entertainer PvP...???