Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
TheSillyOne
Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:47 pm
#274
Arryth wrote:
I have been in this game sence the begining and there have never been enough entertainers until buff bots, also... the fact that mind pool is un healable makes the mind buff essential, it does not "hurt" the game. What hurts the game is the loss of the greater part of the gcw, no working battle firlds, no feelign that something is going on around the characters. Removing buff bots will hurt the play experience of the majority for the sake of the small minoraty.
you are almost right. There are not enough entertainers. That is a fact. Buff bots are not the appropriate solution. Making the class that applies mind buffs a desirable class to play is a much better solution. The social proffessions are unique to this game and have done thier job in pulling a social demographic and, in my opinion, has added a kind of diversity to the player base that is not found in any other game. The problem we keep running into is that with the current combat system there is no way to really blend social and crafting proffessions with combat proffessions. The Dancers who want to be performers generallydon't make very good buffers because social interaction and a good performance have nothing to do with a decent buff. In fact it's the exact opposite. The gamers who want to dance for it's functionality will eventually find that there are more usefull things to spend the skill points on and leave the proffession or they'll create a buff bot. If the proffession had a functionality that was useful TO THE DANCER, the market for buff bots would probably disappear but then so would the $15 a month for all those alt accounts.
My suggestions to solve the problem would include alowing dancers to buff thier own minds, include some defense mods in the tech and knowledge lines,add some new dances, fix the dances that we have,and give us some props and other interesting things to play with. Liven up the cantina sceneand make buffing and heailng possible at any location, via droid/camp/whatever.
KalinnaLanneset
Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:04 pm
#275
Well, seeing as this thread is about a year old by now and still on dancer front page (proving once and for all how popular entertainers are 
), I might as well add in my point of view 
), I might as well add in my point of view I like my entertainers. Here on Valcyn, there are always a slew of eccentric entertainers, especially in Coronet cantina. Sure, the front is usually camped by one or two buff bots along with 20 people asking to join his/her group but I feel it acts as a great filter. The ones who are in a hurry for a buff get their quick fix, while the others who like company while waiting for the BF to heal head straight to where the party's at -- the back. Granted, half the dancers/musicians are AFK, but the ones who aren't are a weird, chatty, off-the-wall lot who always manage to keep me there for an hour or two simply because it was just fun hanging there.
On another note, unless you're about to pvp immediately, entertainer buffs aren't really very critical, or at least not as much as doc buffs. Most of my friends just chug down one Brandy every 40 minutes and keep going, thus bypassing the whole mind-buffing ordeal. Professions like TK or Rifleman might need to double up on the brandies and even nibble on a few ahrisas, but over a 2-hour period the brandy costs would still be cheaper than 5k and most importantly -- no waiting or guilt attached. This is partly why I only accept mind buffs from people I know, if at all, because I know it is done out of goodwill or friendship with no strings attached.
As for the cash issue, most entertainers nowadays either have a combat profession to supplement their cashflow, have had combat professions to build up a significant stash to fall back on, or are merely grinding it away on AFK. The amount of people who will only tip ATK entertainers should also not be underestimated, and, while it doesn't make as much cash as a pure melee profession, entertainer professions are most certainly not short on cash around here due to the few big tippers running around 
Buff bots got into the profession to buff. Entertainers got into the profession to entertain. Let's keep them separate and let each do what they're best at, shall we?
KalinnaLanneset
Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:16 pm
#276
Ah, correction to that last post.. I keep mistaking date registered for post date
Oqua
Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:47 pm
#277
Buff bots got into the profession to buff. Entertainers got into the profession to entertain. Let's keep them separate and let each do what they're best at, shall we?
Buffs were given to the Entertainers to give validity to our classes in the eyes of the public. Funny how a few greedy people can twist what the devs gave to us to HELP our classes (musicians/dancers), and use it to diminish us more.
How about this...
Instead of just keepingbots/afkentertainersseperate, we do away with them. *sweet smile*
When something is doing alot of harm to many people, and literally ruining the game for them, then its time for them to go.
What wouldnon-entertainers "lose"? The ability to demand buffs 24/7.
What have entertainers lost already? Respect, validity, usefulness, a way to support themselves in the SWG economy....nothing about just entertaining there now is it?
Mind you, you have to realize that bots/afk'ers just don't hurt entertainers financially...nor are we lacking people to talk to because of buffbots. *small smile* Try and level up your dancer/musician without hiring a CM to sit there and mind poison everyone.
Still think we should just keep them seperate? Looking at the arguments logically (for thats how people should be looking at this), the answer would be a resounding "no". The only logicalanswer would be to get rid of them...they should never have been allowed to become so rampant in the first place. 
Tonko
Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:35 am
#278
Man,
I got a kick out of this entire thread, and will only say some you definately take you fun seriously. Maybe in addition to solving world hunger, a few chill pills can be swallowed. :-)
My two cents worth:
In my opinion, AFK Macro bufbots are looking to make a ton of credits. Supplying buffs to those that can't find a live entertainer is secondary on their agenda-- if at all because I have yet to EVER receive a thank you for the 10k I always tip for a dancer/musician buff. I almost always receive a THX or :-) from a live entertainer. Nevertheless, on the occassion when I want to hunt tough critters-- and the are no Master Dancers/Musicians around-- a buffbot is very convenient and appreciated.
Non-perfect Solution: Allow AFK buffbots to buff at 100%-- and no higher, for 2 hours, while non-afk entertainers can buff at a maximum of 120% (with the proper bio-enhanced clothing). Plus-- their buffs last 3 or 4 hours which bring them in line with the medical buff durations!
With this, there would be a realreason to use the non-AFKer if available. If none are available, use a buffbot, and come back in two hours to a non-AFKer if available.
I called that the non-perfect solution because there is no perfect solution. But-- it's something most could live with easily.
Message Edited by Tonko on 09-20-2004 10:44 AM
Dreamland
Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:13 am
#279
Tonko wrote:
Man,
I got a kick out of this entire thread, and will only say some you definately take you fun seriously. Maybe in addition to solving world hunger, a few chill pills can be swallowed. :-)
My two cents worth:
In my opinion, AFK Macro bufbots are looking to make a ton of credits. Supplying buffs to those that can't find a live entertainer is secondary on their agenda-- if at all because I have yet to EVER receive a thank you for the 10k I always tip for a dancer/musician buff. I almost always receive a THX or :-) from a live entertainer. Nevertheless, on the occassion when I want to hunt tough critters-- and the are no Master Dancers/Musicians around-- a buffbot is very convenient and appreciated.
Non-perfect Solution: Allow AFK buffbots to buff at 100%-- and no higher, for 2 hours, while non-afk entertainers can buff at a maximum of 120% (with the proper bio-enhanced clothing). Plus-- their buffs last 3 or 4 hours which bring them in line with the medical buff durations!
With this, there would be a realreason to use the non-AFKer if available. If none are available, use a buffbot, and come back in two hours to a non-AFKer if available.
I called that the non-perfect solution because there is no perfect solution. But-- it's something most could live with easily.
Message Edited by Tonko on 09-20-2004 10:44 AM
Ok so how do you detect that someone is actualy a buffbot? There a a ton of ways to overcome afk detection, and there never will be a foolproof way to detect if someone is afk that cant be overcome with a real world object to move the mouse for example. Is a csr going to walk up to every entertainer and ask are you a buffbot?
Secondly little to no live entertainers have +25 skill tapes, because the buffbots are the only ones that can afford to buy them. This is an extremely cumbersome and impossible to implement idea that would crash and burn in about 45 minutes when the first buffbot logs on and puts thier mouse on something to shake it that keeps them in the game.
No matter what you say or how you come up with ways to reward atended play, unatended play is wrong and its is contributing to the fast aproaching death of this game.
Dreamland
Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:54 am
#280
Tonko wrote:
One way to detect a buffbot is to have a random number generated that the dancer/musician enters on the screen to unlock the 120% buff and 3 to 4 hour buff duration.
For example, when the client does a /watch this number is generated and the dancer unlocks the added power and duration by repeating at some point during the buff. If buffing a group, all numbers are added so the dancer only enters it once. I'm sure there are some pretty good coders that could make it VERY difficult to macro AFK for an extended period of time.
And if there are a few macro-genius people that figure out a way to AFK it--may they be reported by those that currently work so hard to gripe about buffbots.
Message Edited by Tonko on 09-20-2004 11:48 AM
Personaly, theres enough random numbers to enter. the anoying structure numbers for example. It's much simpler, and better for the game just to take them out.
Even if i did support this idea which i do not, i would not support 100% buffs for a buffbot, id say 50% as an absolute maximum, and more likely about 35% would be the figure it should be.
But if your going to go that route, why even have a buffbot?? i'd rather buffs were removed than have any situation that allows for unatended play. And it doesnt solve the other issues unatended play causes, for example spammers, tumblers, and afk combat players sitting in a spawn of meatlumps.
Interesting side note too, im on sunrunner right now, its monday afternoon, far from peak hours. I just had my bf and mind healed by a live ent who i tipped. I am however autohealing my wounds in the med center cause i cant find a doctor to heal me.
Oh new update a medic just came in yay!. Oh wait, hes healing the tumbler instead of me,, looks like another half hour of autoheal. Oh and theres a live master dancer offering mind buffs in the cantina too. guess there not so hard to find.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-20-2004 12:35 PM
Oqua
Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:27 pm
#281
The idea is to allow a mind buff to always be available
Why?
Because it makes it easier for some?
Sorry, but when everything else is available to me at all times, then your argument for bots has merit.
Thanks though for proving my point once again. Hopefully the devs are watching, and noticing what this is basically all about; that whole throngs ofpeople are wanting to ruin someclasses for what reason? Once again....lets say it all together now.....CONVENIENCE.
Thanks again Tonko...couldn't have said it better myself.
DanceRulez
Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:44 pm
#282
Tonko wrote:Buffbots at 75% and ATK Dancers/Musicians at 100%?
Hmmmm do I need to point out the fact that if it were so easy to automatically (as in, from the client or server side on its own with no CSR or other human help) distinguish bots from live players they might have done something about that already? If it were that easy, I'm sure they wouldn't be taking out looping macros.
Tonko
Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:29 pm
#283
Having buffbots is not about convnience. It's as convenient to use an ATK (at the keyboard) as it is to use an AFK (away from keyboard) buffbot. Having buffbotsis simplythe way the game is setup because the fact is that I survive in the wild better with a mind buff-- especially if I'm dancing with a nightsister. So,regardless of whomI getit from-- be it a ATK 'toon or a buffbot, I have an incentive to buy a mind buff.
Have an ATK entertaineravailable 24x7, and the need for a buffbot will be eliminated. Again,give ATKers the ability to provide better buffs than a buffbot, and that too eliminates the incentive to use a buffbot-- if you can the ATK entertainer to do it.
Better yet, eliminate the "bad guys" that hit my mind so hard, which would eliminate buffbots-- and my need to ever visit a cantina.
Now that would hurt the class! 
Message Edited by Tonko on 09-20-2004 02:47 PM
Tonko
Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:38 pm
#284
DanceRulz:
See my earlier post about the random number generator to give ATK entertainers the ability give better buffs with a longer duration. One person said they didn't like having to type more, but if you're at the keyboard it's not a big deal.
Aleyo
Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 pm
#285
People who say that there should be an ATK entertainer available at all times and buffbots will be eliminated ignore another aspect of buffbots (as well as ignore the fact that their argument's pretty dumb). Would you make the same assertion if the live entertainer could be in a random location at any time? I was going to say anywhere in the wilderness on any planet, I was even going to say any cantina, player city or static city, but I'll even limit it to static city cantinas. If there was a guarantee that there was a live player willing to buff at all times, but you didn't know which cantina in which to find them, would you still say that buffbots would be eliminated?
My guess would be no. Buffbots mark out a location and tend to stay there. This is one of the reasons that it's not acceptable for them to be removed from only static city cantinas. They will still build up a customer base, and they will still always be in the same place, and players will go there where they have to spend no effort to 'figure it out' instead of looking for live players, even if it's on the corner of the map. Any player who goes to a buffbot is one that doesn't go to a live entertainer.
My guess would be no. Buffbots mark out a location and tend to stay there. This is one of the reasons that it's not acceptable for them to be removed from only static city cantinas. They will still build up a customer base, and they will still always be in the same place, and players will go there where they have to spend no effort to 'figure it out' instead of looking for live players, even if it's on the corner of the map. Any player who goes to a buffbot is one that doesn't go to a live entertainer.
Oqua
Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:01 pm
#286
Tonko, I think its too funny that you went back and edited your post to take out the word "convenient". *giggle* Too funny indeed.
Again, buffs were given to entertainers to make us a more viable class in the game. Buffbots negate that fact.
I would buy the "makes it easier for me when hunting/fighting" argument if I (and my husband) didn't hunt all those big baddies without mind buffs.
What happens when a doctor isn't around?
What happens when a class isn't around with a commodity I "need"?
Ah yes...I either hunt all over the place...or I wait.
Why does everyone simply refuse to acknowledge that entertainers should have the same courtesy as every other viable profession/class in SWG is beyond me. Do you know the reason why?
Ah yes, because buffbots have been there to givepeople theirsteady supply wheneverthey want or need...thats why. Sorry, but thats just not right...and again... its all about convenience/availability no matter how many timesanyone triesto say it differently (or editstheir posts).
Message Edited by Oqua on 09-20-2004 03:14 PM