Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
Isendel
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:19 am
#248
Reachwind get a clue before you start accuseing people of exploiting..
1) buff bots are not an exploit.. PERIOD..
2) I dont run a buff bot, Im mearly defending others right to do so.
Isendel
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:23 am
#249
Poetdancer youre logic here makes no sence.. There are hundreds of people, maby thausandsrunning second accounts just to have thier own dancer/musician. It would make no sence at all for SONY to eliminate the class it makes them extra money. You are just speading false alarmism with no actual basis in fact or logic.
Isendel
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:28 am
#250
Because Oqua.. The arguments are not the same. Comparing afk buff bots (not a cheat per the devs) to Credit dupe (most defanatly a cheat) is just stupid. They are not the same thing. What you and Nacoa are advocating is striping paying players of their chosen functionality, that currently breaks no rules. Thats the difference.
Isendel
Wed Sep 15, 2004 6:33 am
#251
Well..lets look into the time before buffs Oqua shall we?
If your refering to Doc buffs.. I had those two weeks after I started playing as I had one of the first Master docs on my server.. So ive NEVER been in a time of pvp before buffs..
if your meaining mind buffs.. Before they existed.. it was a non issue because no on else had them either. Removing buff bots will simply make it so certain people will still ALL ways be buffed and other will have alot of trouble getting them. That creates another unneeded inbalance in pvp.
Taewyn
Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:08 am
#252
What you and Nacoa are advocating is striping paying players of their chosen functionality, that currently breaks no rules. Thats the difference.
What do you think buff bots do to the Dancers on a whole? It strips their ability to play a role within the game world...
Why be a dancer when one person can buy an extra acount and run a buff bot 24/7, it creates mudflation and destroys any niche within the community that the class might play.
Look at how many things AFK macroes have destroyed in game....Its not limited to dancers...All the POI spawns are currently turned off, because you can AFK macro grind exp there (for the village). All the chests in dungeons have been changed from a 30 minute respawn to a 12 hour respawn, because people were AFK looting them all day.
Mind buffs are a valuable commodity, they are widely used andprized throughout the community, so, in the end, they should be at least a little difficult to get. However, in comparison, even with "having" to use live entertainers (as opposed to buff bots), getting a buff in this game is vastly easier then almost any other...You do not even need to bring the buffer with you while you hunt, the buffs last long enough that you can solo with them.
I do not think it is asking too much for people to take 15 minutes out and find a live entertainer so they can enjoy the *huge* bonus mind buffs provide. As I said before, it is a *bonus*, you do need mind buffs for combat, its extra and you should not be entitled to it every time you log in.
Your attitude on a whole is indicative of most of the player base atm...."I want to log in and be buffed/armored enough to kill everything in 2 minutes, without the need to group."....I meen, I almost laugh when people say "waiting in the 5 minute line for doc buffs is killing my game experience!!". Its 5 minutes, and for those 5 minutes you become 1000% more effective in combat.
No, it is not your right to have buffs....No, it is not your right to whore out and destroy an entire class so you can have buffs on demand....It is your right to search and interact with people to obtain those buffs.
It does not matter I suppose, most people like you will be leaving when the combat balance hits and you are taken out of god mode.
As for the doc buffs in the first two weeks?
Really? You must have had a friend who ground out arch very very fast so you could get those factories and harvesters 
.......The fact is, "serious" buffs did not even start apearing for personal PA use until about 3 months into the game....Only then did docs have the reosources/factories ect to start actually making "good buffs"...Until that time most buffs were minor (like +150)....
.......The fact is, "serious" buffs did not even start apearing for personal PA use until about 3 months into the game....Only then did docs have the reosources/factories ect to start actually making "good buffs"...Until that time most buffs were minor (like +150)....Message Edited by Taewyn on 09-15-2004 09:11 AM
Reachwind
Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:14 am
#253
Isendel wrote:
Reachwind get a clue before you start accuseing people of exploiting..
1) buff bots are not an exploit.. PERIOD..
2) I dont run a buff bot, Im mearly defending others right to do so.
I know this is hard for you to understand with your limited understanding of the english language but I'll try to make this as easy to understand as I can.
Buff bots are exploiting a badly designed game system to give an unintended and unwanted benefit to player characters. We know this because the developers have clearly stated this. They just haven't taken the time to patch in a fix because they either haven't had the resources or they aren't sure of a good fix that won't break a lot of other working systems.
As far as your second point is concerned... Running a buff bot or not makes no difference. Buff bots are not a valid game play style. PERIOD as you would say.
Oqua
Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:19 am
#254
Okies...again...so you will understand.
This has nothing to do with doctor buffs..other then thats that classes way to be viable in the community. That, and availability in off hours. Those are the only way I am even comparing doctor buffs or bringing doctor buffs up.
I honestly don't care if you were a doctor or not. Again, how you just throw random items that don't have a thing to do with what we are talking about boggles my mind...but oh well.
For the last time...We know your stance on wanting buffbots. We also have ascertained that you are just going to throw out random illogical, innane points to try and confuse the issue and make it look like you actually have a leg to stand on. *sweetest of smiles*
So..for the time being lets agree to disagree. Hopefully the devs will see your rants for what they are. Right now though sugar, no matter how much you foam at the mouth trying to get myself and others to "see what you are saying and agree with you" (which would take a sharp drop in IQ's, logic and reason I might add *sardonic smile*)...let me just say it ain't gonna happen.
Just tryingto avoid argument and keep the boards from filling upwith more of your smart, well thought out, one liners. *sweet smile*
Isendel
Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:39 am
#255
Taewyn.. Thats not true
I had serious buffs.. 800 power at the time buffs with in just over two weeks of starting the game.. How did i do it.. easy.. 5 accounts, 3 computers and creative use of the macros in game plus 3 weeks off from work (injury, long story). Any one remember the afk harvesting macros? How sweet they were... As far as grinding an archetect.. gimmy a break.. Getting to the point of being able ot make my first factories and harvesters was cake. Energy was no issue either, cause at that time you could still hand harvest good rad with out hurting your self.
I had buffs by week 2 and was outfitting my pvp group with them by week 4. They were not the 910 power 13500 duration buffs of today, but they were still good. I did not start pvping until I had my own buffs. So.. I really do not have expeirence with a time before doc buffs....
I do have expierence with not being able to find an entertainer.. the day time hours were horrable in that respect. There were many days before the time of afk entertainers that I could not find an entertainer on line at all. Im sorry but, being that battle fatigue was added just to justify the existance of entertainers and that it and mind wounds are so debilitating that they stop the game if there are not entertainers around, afk entertainers ARE needed and are nessary. I should not have my game play stopped completely just because there is not an entertainer around. So if afk entertainers are removed, they should also remove battle fatigue and mind wounds.
The things many of you entertainers are advocating will not help you much. It will turn already high degrees of player dislike toword entertainers into outright hatered of the class. You think people dont like us now, wait untill the mind buffs become much more scarce and it becomes harder to get healed....
Not a good situation in my view.
Isendel
Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:40 am
#256
Taewyn.. Thats not true
I had serious buffs.. 800 power at the time buffs with in just over two weeks of starting the game.. How did i do it.. easy.. 5 accounts, 3 computers and creative use of the macros in game plus 3 weeks off from work (injury, long story). Any one remember the afk harvesting macros? How sweet they were... As far as grinding an archetect.. gimmy a break.. Getting to the point of being able ot make my first factories and harvesters was cake. Energy was no issue either, cause at that time you could still hand harvest good rad with out hurting your self.
I had buffs by week 2 and was outfitting my pvp group with them by week 4. They were not the 910 power 13500 duration buffs of today, but they were still good. I did not start pvping until I had my own buffs. So.. I really do not have expeirence with a time before doc buffs....
I do have expierence with not being able to find an entertainer.. the day time hours were horrable in that respect. There were many days before the time of afk entertainers that I could not find an entertainer on line at all. Im sorry but, being that battle fatigue was added just to justify the existance of entertainers and that it and mind wounds are so debilitating that they stop the game if there are not entertainers around, afk entertainers ARE needed and are nessary. I should not have my game play stopped completely just because there is not an entertainer around. So if afk entertainers are removed, they should also remove battle fatigue and mind wounds.
The things many of you entertainers are advocating will not help you much. It will turn already high degrees of player dislike toword entertainers into outright hatered of the class. You think people dont like us now, wait untill the mind buffs become much more scarce and it becomes harder to get healed....
Not a good situation in my view.
Isendel
Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:50 am
#257
I understand english very well thank you Reachwind... So please tone down the personal attacks. Ok? Thanks.
Buff bots are not an exploit, and there is no dev post callign them such. The devs have proposed removing th eability to run them due to a minority out cry, not because its some magicly discovered design flaw. the way they work is very simple and could not have been th eresuly of a bug. They are a legitimate use of an in game macro supplied by the devs. Whats happeninghere isthat the devs are giving ground to the incesent whineing on a few, and may end up doing something that will hurt the game play and enjoyment of the majority. You people attacking owners of afk entertainer and those who choose to enjoy their services,are not the only ones with musicians/dancers, and consequently should not be the solevoice dictating policy on how our class is run. The devs should query all dancer/musician characters before making any kind of change to our fine profession. Further they should be asking the rest of the player base to weigh in. Its very important that a minority group of malcontents not be allowed to harm the game play and dictate the games policy of the majority of players.
Reachwind
Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:02 am
#258
Isendel wrote:
I understand english very well thank you Reachwind... So please tone down the personal attacks. Ok? Thanks.
Buff bots are not an exploit, and there is no dev post callign them such. The devs have proposed removing th eability to run them due to a minority out cry, not because its some magicly discovered design flaw. the way they work is very simple and could not have been th eresuly of a bug. They are a legitimate use of an in game macro supplied by the devs. Whats happeninghere isthat the devs are giving ground to the incesent whineing on a few, and may end up doing something that will hurt the game play and enjoyment of the majority. You people attacking owners of afk entertainer and those who choose to enjoy their services,are not the only ones with musicians/dancers, and consequently should not be the solevoice dictating policy on how our class is run. The devs should query all dancer/musician characters before making any kind of change to our fine profession. Further they should be asking the rest of the player base to weigh in. Its very important that a minority group of malcontents not be allowed to harm the game play and dictate the games policy of the majority of players.
My apologies then Isendel. I thought from reading your posts that english might be yoursecond language.
As to your lack of a point. Argue all you want at this point it makes no difference. We know and have known since beta that AFK is not the intended skill gain or play method for any profession in the game. The entertainer professions are so far down on the list of profession importance for coding time that even simple fixes like spelling for our titles was put off for ten months.
I need to clear something up for you in reguards to your interpretation of the word exploit vs the actual definition... I am using the word exploiting as in "to make use of meanly or unjustly for one's own advantage". I know you assume I mean exploit as in "d00d ur an exploiter double slic0ring tat Todd's t21", but I don't.
Warryyr
Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:51 am
#259
Isendel wrote:
Because Oqua.. The arguments are not the same. Comparing afk buff bots (not a cheat per the devs) to Credit dupe (most defanatly a cheat) is just stupid. They are not the same thing. What you and Nacoa are advocating is striping paying players of their chosen functionality, that currently breaks no rules. Thats the difference.
If you're going to respond to a slew of posts in a thread this large, please quote the post you're referring. Your responses could be regarding any post by the people you're talking to. See that little white conversation balloon button on top of the reply window? Right next to the Smiley button? Yeah, that's the "Quote Post" button.
Just responding to whatever random post you read, without quoting the post you're responding to, makes things very confusing for whomever tries to read your comments/opinions.
The "Quote Post" button is your friend...
Nacoa
Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:10 am
#260
Isendel wrote:Because Oqua.. The arguments are not the same. Comparing afk buff bots (not a cheat per the devs) to Credit dupe (most defanatly a cheat) is just stupid. They are not the same thing. What you and Nacoa are advocating is striping paying players of their chosen functionality, that currently breaks no rules. Thats the difference.
/sigh
Now I think buffbots should be removed simply because their advocates refuse to READ, much less put forth a coherent argument for keeping them.
Nowhere did anyone say Buffbots are the same as credit duping. What I was saying is that sometimes, a middle ground is not desirable. There should be no middle ground with credit dupers, because even doing it a little destroys the game.
I'm arguing that there should not be a middle ground for buffbots, like no XP or only in a player city, because the bots are still damaging the game. XP doesn't matter to a master, and people will just go to the bots in the player cities.
As for the "it's legal now!" theme that keeps coming up, no one is saying it's not legal now. If it was not legal now, the bots would all be banned already. We already know the devs have decided to remove all unattended play, so buffbots will become illegal.
So, once again, could any pro-buffbot player come up with a reason to keep them in the game?
We've got the "I pay $15/mo" argument, which fails because the live entertainers pay just as much, and deserve a playable game for it.
We've got the worries about availability, which I think will be fixed by supply and demand when the bots are gone. If it isn't, there's a slew of ideas on these boards to address the issue, if it becomes an issue.
We've got the "it's legal now!" argument, which fails since the devs have already said they will be getting rid of unattended play thus making it no longer legal.
Message Edited by Nacoa on 09-15-2004 12:26 PM