Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
Reachwind wrote:
I didn't comment on your idea because we have discussed ideas simliar to it before and through those discussions realised that really not enough of us cared for the idea to back it.
The core entertainers, the people that make this profession workand the people that this profession was designed to cater to would like a better cantina experience. They want a social gathering place... The ability to buff near a droid would just help clutter star ports more than they already are as musicians and dancers pulled up along beside the docs spamming buffs.
Actually, if you read my idea, it specifies that in order to get the buff from the droid, one would need to be in a place where buffs are currently given - cantina, private structure, camp, etc. A starport would never come into the equation. Likewise with loading the droid with a performance. The module would *not* function like a Doctor's module, nor was it stated that it would. I've tried resizing the post, so maybe it doesn't look so out of whack anymore - if you wanted to read it.
Although I am hardly one to say whether or not someone shouldcare for the idea, I think the point of such an idea would be to benefit the playerbase at large, and make buffbots less appealing. Why run to the nearest buffbot when you can head to the closest cantina, no matter what? If there's no Entertainer there, at least you have your 75% buffs stored in your droid. To get the droid recharged would require visiting a live Entertainer, so they could enter the "program code."
I don't love the idea of a droid buffing necessarily, but I find it preferable to have a way we can actually provide this "service" that buffbot lovers howl over all the time, while still not having to be everywhere that every combat player is, and 24 hours per day. If that's really what they want, fine - kill the AFK'ers (as the Devs have stated that they strongly disapprove of AFK play and want to end the macros that enable it), and bring the power of that "service" back into the live Entertainers' hands.
Unless we gain the power to clone ourselves, how will we be everywhere at once, at all times. This is what combat people want. The mentality is prevelant whenever I play. I'm asked to go to THEM, rarely asked where I am and can they come get a buff. I'm not talking about the good and faithful customers. I'm talking about the random folks who send /tells. There's more of them out there than the courteous folks we usually interact with.Lots of hardcore combat peoplewant Entertainers everywhere, at all times. How do we do that?
No live person can.
So - what does each player carry (or have the potential to carry) that would logically enable them to gain this buff service that they apparently so deeply desire? Vehicles. Droids. Items. Vehicles obviously won't apply. Craftable items - it's been stated that Entertainers do not want to be crafters, so any type of craftable buffpack or object that needs to be massproducedis out. So, seems to me that droids are left, and droids fit sort of well - R2 did holographic projections and messages. The crafting is left to Droid Engineers. So we dance or play music and "program" a droid. At least live Entertainers would have to provide the charging service. The droid owner "gets" a buff, and uses it when is most convenient, maybe at a time they usually play when finding Mind buffs is difficult. The cost will be strength of buff. The benefit would be very convenient buffs whenever they need them, used in the same place that Entertainer buffs are done now.
"we have discussed ideas simliar to it before and through those discussions realised that really not enough of us cared for the idea to back it."
) and realize the real argument that anyone is really putting forth.
Hvzeda wrote:
You are assuming those new players are new accounts. If SWG was booming with new accounts, why has they give people 14 free days to play SWG TWICE. I would have to look for that data of MMORPG but SWG was already in a decline when I saw that data in March or April. Things could have changed between now and then but with the release of CoH and the future release of WoW (who ended their stress test two days ago) and EQII, the future looks bleak, but that does not mean if will be going for a few more years.
You know.. I don't see it as a bleak future. I see this competition as a positive thing. SWG has gotten alot of slack just because its the best thing going right now, and its star wars. With WOW and EQ2 thats going to be some stiff competition, and i think the dev team is going to have to pull up their socks to keep people interested in this game. I think thats great, its do or die either make it more fun or the new rpgs in town are going to put them out to pasture. Competition is our friend. At the very least all the bandwagoning mmog goons that hop from each game to the next will be getting the opertunity to hop over to the next new thing and hopefuly that will leave swg with a much nicer playerbase. I actualy think WOW is going to bear the brunt of this and possibly set recors for the rudest playerbase in history when the general public gets in there, that is if what ive heard about diablo2 is any indication.
Hvzeda wrote:
I'm not going to argue about the need for buffs. I don't care what people want the buffs for because it is their character, not mine. I've even stated, let us remove buffs. But if people wantBF healingand afk entertainers are removed, what is the solution for them if there are no live entertainers? Pick up dancing and heal their own BF and mind wounds? Hell, I don't even know why I'm arguing this anymore. My head hurts and I'm going to bed.l
The solution is for the live dancers to be able to come back and enjoy the game, and in that fulfill thier role to heal battle fatigue and provide buffs. This game has not to date been played without the ability to be an afk entertainer. In the very beginning we greatly outnumbered the unatended until they slowly undermined our purpose like a cancer, to the point where it reached absolute apathy, that being the heart of the hologrind.
Why not give entertainers the chance they never had? to enjoy a totaly afk free cantina experience and be needed. When someone is needed and can not be circumvented in any way by an unatended player the live player will rise to fill that demand, because people will start to PAY for it.
As long as any kind of system is left in game that makes what an entertainer does useless, then no entertainers will not rise to the role of healer and buffer.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-14-2004 12:04 AM
I hope the competition does shake things up at SWG and that they get on the ballbut I fear they are pinning their hopes on JTL instead of fixing some issues thathave existed in the game since day one. They have had over a year without any serious competition. I've heard the reviews about WoW from the beta testers since the stress test is completed. I have heard some good reviews on it and some critical points made that WoW needs to improve on.If Blizzard takes to heart to fix some of those critical points, SWG could be in some serious problems. CoH was a breath of fresh air for some players until something better came along or until SWG fixed things.
Dreamland wrote:
Hvzeda wrote:
You are assuming those new players are new accounts. If SWG was booming with new accounts, why has they give people 14 free days to play SWG TWICE. I would have to look for that data of MMORPG but SWG was already in a decline when I saw that data in March or April. Things could have changed between now and then but with the release of CoH and the future release of WoW (who ended their stress test two days ago) and EQII, the future looks bleak, but that does not mean if will be going for a few more years.
You know.. I don't see it as a bleak future. I see this competition as a positive thing. SWG has gotten alot of slack just because its the best thing going right now, and its star wars. With WOW and EQ2 thats going to be some stiff competition, and i think the dev team is going to have to pull up their socks to keep people interested in this game. I think thats great, its do or die either make it more fun or the new rpgs in town are going to put them out to pasture. Competition is our friend. At the very least all the bandwagoning mmog goons that hop from each game to the next will be getting the opertunity to hop over to the next new thing and hopefuly that will leave swg with a much nicer playerbase. I actualy think WOW is going to bear the brunt of this and possibly set recors for the rudest playerbase in history when the general public gets in there, that is if what ive heard about diablo2 is any indication.
rayill wrote:
Hvzeda wrote:
I'm not going to argue about the need for buffs. I don't care what people want the buffs for because it is their character, not mine. I've even stated, let us remove buffs. But if people wantBF healingand afk entertainers are removed, what is the solution for them if there are no live entertainers? Pick up dancing and heal their own BF and mind wounds? Hell, I don't even know why I'm arguing this anymore. My head hurts and I'm going to bed.l
As it has been pointed out in the past, currently Player City Medical Centers heal battle fatigue. It does it rather slowly, but it is an alternative. Also, many people dabble in Medic instead of having to take along one to heal you in combat. What's the difference of doing the same thing with picking up Entertainer? You don't have to dance. You can play the Slitherhorn on Star Wars 1 and play away the fatigue. Since there are completely viable solutions to healing the battle fatigue and mind wounds even for the off-peak hour person or the low population server person, there is no reason to merit AFK-ing this profession.
Interesting points. To heal 100 BF in a medical facility takes quite a long time. 3 BF healed every 10 minutes is 333 minutes. Do you know anyone that would like to wait this long? Most people tend to pick up novice medic to use B-stims to heal themselves in battle. That is 15 skill points. Now you are asking them to use another 15 skill points to pick up entertainer. Are you encouraging people to be more self-reliant and not rely on entertainers for healing? It has been stated in this thread this is a MMO and it has a social interaction for others rely on others for help. And I have see few people during off-peak hours and those that I mostly see are combat.
It really is not that difficult to find a person to heal your battle fatigue or mind wounds. I have no reason to have to search out anyone myself because I am a Master Dancer; however, I will go find those new players (the ones that are coming out of Eisley) and find ones who are actively at their keyboard trying to learn the profession. 1000 BF takes a very long time to heal, especially when you're watching a novice entertainer. Yet, I feel my time is spent wisely since I'm helping that new person out for the next ten minutes. Sure, I can heal it in two minutes and be back out on my way, but I don't help the system if I don't seek others out. And if there is no one, I can still heal it myself. Or go sit in the my player city Med Center. Oh my god.. there are ways around not visiting the AFK-zombies!!!
There are some out there still atk but there are some afk that don't put up the afk sign (and those with afk up but are atk). If someone can only play a couple hours and can't find a live ent, you asking them to sit for 333 minutes in a med facility to heal 100 BF? Each server is different in population meaning some servers it is very easy to find a live entertainer and others, it is nothing but a couple afk entertainers.
Hvzeda wrote:
Here is a different approach.
1. What caused this problem of buffbots/afk entertainers to flourish? (no pun intended)
Once we can settled on what caused it
2. What do we do to remedy this problem so that they are no longer needed?
Telling me to get rid of them doesn't solve the problem. That is just a bandaid approach because it doesn't solve why they came aboutin the first place. Take a look around. Ask others (non-entertainers) if they use buffbots and afk entertainers,why, and how often? Ask buffbots and afk entertainers thatwhy they do it? If we can provide a viable solution, we make ourselves a much stronger community of enterainers. A profession that should get the respect it deserves.
To those that have recognized I've been playing the devil's advocate here, thanks. I was only trying to evoke a discussion regarding of why this problem exists. Just because something bothers you or doesn't fit your game playing style, doesn't mean you argue that is should be gone or eliminated. This problem came because something encouraged it. That is what should be addressed and with that, that is the beginning of our solution.
The problem is that this has been answered for you dozens of times by many people... yet here you are asking the same question over and over and over again... If you want to play the devils advocate then why don't you move on to some other questions that have not been answered a hundred times.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-14-2004 02:39 PM
Hvzeda wrote:
rayill wrote:
Hvzeda wrote:
I'm not going to argue about the need for buffs. I don't care what people want the buffs for because it is their character, not mine. I've even stated, let us remove buffs. But if people wantBF healingand afk entertainers are removed, what is the solution for them if there are no live entertainers? Pick up dancing and heal their own BF and mind wounds? Hell, I don't even know why I'm arguing this anymore. My head hurts and I'm going to bed.l
As it has been pointed out in the past, currently Player City Medical Centers heal battle fatigue. It does it rather slowly, but it is an alternative. Also, many people dabble in Medic instead of having to take along one to heal you in combat. What's the difference of doing the same thing with picking up Entertainer? You don't have to dance. You can play the Slitherhorn on Star Wars 1 and play away the fatigue. Since there are completely viable solutions to healing the battle fatigue and mind wounds even for the off-peak hour person or the low population server person, there is no reason to merit AFK-ing this profession.
Interesting points. To heal 100 BF in a medical facility takes quite a long time. 3 BF healed every 10 minutes is 333 minutes. Do you know anyone that would like to wait this long? Most people tend to pick up novice medic to use B-stims to heal themselves in battle. That is 15 skill points. Now you are asking them to use another 15 skill points to pick up entertainer. Are you encouraging people to be more self-reliant and not rely on entertainers for healing? It has been stated in this thread this is a MMO and it has a social interaction for others rely on others for help. And I have see few people during off-peak hours and those that I mostly see are combat.
It really is not that difficult to find a person to heal your battle fatigue or mind wounds. I have no reason to have to search out anyone myself because I am a Master Dancer; however, I will go find those new players (the ones that are coming out of Eisley) and find ones who are actively at their keyboard trying to learn the profession. 1000 BF takes a very long time to heal, especially when you're watching a novice entertainer. Yet, I feel my time is spent wisely since I'm helping that new person out for the next ten minutes. Sure, I can heal it in two minutes and be back out on my way, but I don't help the system if I don't seek others out. And if there is no one, I can still heal it myself. Or go sit in the my player city Med Center. Oh my god.. there are ways around not visiting the AFK-zombies!!!
There are some out there still atk but there are some afk that don't put up the afk sign (and those with afk up but are atk). If someone can only play a couple hours and can't find a live ent, you asking them to sit for 333 minutes in a med facility to heal 100 BF? Each server is different in population meaning some servers it is very easy to find a live entertainer and others, it is nothing but a couple afk entertainers.
I'm not asking anyone to do anything. I'm merely pointing out that there are very slow alternatives available if you don't happen to know an entertainer or can't find one. Personally, I'd wager a majority of the people who "can't find live entertainers" are too lazy to really look for one. That's a personal opinion, and you're welcome to disagree with it. Just don't tell me that the only viable option is supporting AFK in any location. That's not a viable option. That's promoting people to continue to abuse and disregard the entertainer professions and remove them from actually partaking in the social mechanisms in the game and the economy. So, personally, I'd rather see people either become more self reliant or parking themselves for 333 minutes in a medical center rather than frequentingan AFK performer. You'd be surprised how many dedicated and liveenterntainers you'd find on even the low population servers if AFK wasn't an option. Why? Because it would suddenly become profitable to be an entertainer once more, and it may even be fun to be in a cantina in Coronet, Theed, Dathomir, or Dantooine. Funny, when there is an actual demand for live performers, there will be people to meet that demand.
Leaving AFK-playing as a viable option, even if removed from NPC cities, completely negates the positive affects the removal of this playstyle will bring. You can say whatever you want, but go to just about any server and see how many players actually frequent live enterntainers instead of the buffbots, even if a live entertainer is present. That alone speaks more than anything I can post. I've watched people flock to them for regular healing because "She's always there". Funny how the people just a bit further in who are actually talking to one another and trying to put on a show are there and ready to do exactly what the afk and buff bots are doing. These are the very players that make me state that most players are really too lazy to look for a live entertainer and the removal of afking in any form will better these professions and the entire game. Some people will become self-reliant, but let's just face the facts that most people are not going to train enough entertainer skills (if any) to benefit themselves. Novice Medic with good stimpacks can heal you about as much as you need. Novice Entertainer will let you very slowly heal your own and others battle fatigue and mind wounds. Even those self reliant would likely choose to watch someone dedicated to the profession for that quick time and use the "self-reliance" in times when there are no entertainers.