Dancer Archive
Thread: New Inspirations on TC!
NJ62 wrote:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this is not the way things get done.
Eshi has been chosen to represent the views of dancers, not crafters. Her job is to present to the devs what dancers want. And dancers are for the most part content with this buff. If she were to present to the devs the argument that these buffs are bad, well that isn't faithfully representing her community, is it? It's like the prosecutor telling the jury that maybe the defendant didn't do it.
So what is a crafter to do? Well, you have your own correspondent. Go explain your viewpoint to him or her. Seriously. Your correspondent will then take your complaints to the devs, as is his or her job to do, just as it is Eshi's job to take Dancer opinions to the devs.
Do we on this forum make decisions? No. Will arguing with us accomplish anything? No. The only possible result of this discussion is to attempt to make dancers feel guilty for gaining new content, the specifics of which the dancers did not choose.
The dancers want to dismantle the crafting system? The dancers want to destroy years of hard work? I hope not, the dancers probably just want some freaking content for a change! And I agree, give them content, just not a 10% resource buff.
ItemCreator wrote:
As a crafter and a dancer I would like to see the resource part of the buffs removed, or at the very least toned down.
Entertainers are not alchemists, we should not be able to effect the stats on a resource, it just doesn't make sense! (Its also very un-starwarsy).
It does seem silly at first glance but I think the rationale is that the crafter is inspired to make better use of lower quality resources not that the actual quality increases.
NJ62 wrote:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this is not the way things get done.
Eshi has been chosen to represent the views of dancers, not crafters. Her job is to present to the devs what dancers want. And dancers are for the most part content with this buff. If she were to present to the devs the argument that these buffs are bad, well that isn't faithfully representing her community, is it? It's like the prosecutor telling the jury that maybe the defendant didn't do it.
So what is a crafter to do? Well, you have your own correspondent. Go explain your viewpoint to him or her. Seriously. Your correspondent will then take your complaints to the devs, as is his or her job to do, just as it is Eshi's job to take Dancer opinions to the devs.
Do we on this forum make decisions? No. Will arguing with us accomplish anything? No. The only possible result of this discussion is to attempt to make dancers feel guilty for gaining new content, the specifics of which the dancers did not choose.
Fine, all I have to do is add 2 chars to my sig.
Enata, Dancer/Musician, Starsider
Kesa, ID/Dancer/Musician, Starsider
Niether mastered yet, because I play ATK.
Having two Dancers because I MISSED dance and music so much doesn't make me oblivious to the concerns of crafting. Lasai was one of the first master dancers on Valcyn, and when I went combat with her I missed it terribly. Lycantha on Sylla was a Master Dancer till CU.
I have every right to post here, as a dancer and a crafter and post my concerns.
Lycantha wrote:
I have every right to post here, as a dancer and a crafter and post my concerns.
Message Edited by Panthu on 08-25-2005 10:55 AM
I am, because of what Eerif pointed out, not too terribly concerned that crafters will be overly demanding and rude when looking for buffs. I think crafters tend to be calmer and more open to social interaction than the people who were looking for mind buffs, so I am not yet afraid of this new system. There is potential for it to turn out poorly, but I'm not going to shy away from putting in the effort to try to make it work.
What I am afraid of is that I see no effort on the part of the devs to make cantinas more hospitible to live entertainers.
I adore the devs for making these new buffs ATK only. But I fear that in a world where cantinas are still full of spamming zombies, it will still not be "fun" to sit in Theed cantina ATK having my toes tromped on by an AFK tumbler and my eyes assaulted by an AFK light effects spammer.
In the current cantina atmosphere, with the small inspiration buff that is live right now, even post master buffbots exist in quantity. I see nothing in this new system that will change that, and I think for the new system to be a success it needs to change. You can't find one ATK buffer in a sea of AFK zombies, and one ATK buffer doesn't want to sit in a sea of AFK zombies.
Please, what are we doing to make sure that this change isn't in vain, and that it has the best chance for success and revitalizing the very stagnant social and non-combat areas of SWG?
Message Edited by SmedleyLlama on 08-25-2005 11:08 AM
Doriana wrote:
noSup4u wrote:
Ikewe wrote:
I'll say it again to all the crafters, please go to the TC, test the system, and make your posts there. When you have an alternative to suggest, feel free to come back here. I'm sure many of the dancers and musicians will be happy to discuss alternatives to the 10% resource quality buff.
heres my suggestion after checking out test center.
remove the resource buffs but keep the rest of them.
discuss.
I've asked this already and I was, of course, ignored, but...
Where are your numbers? How exactly, with backup statistics, did this buff change and affect the process you went through to craft? How do your new products compare to the products you crafted before this system went into effect? How do different resource statistics affect the end results? Are there some cases when it might actually be preferable to NOT be buffed? Do the higher numbers on resource stats actually pan out to be a bland boost in item quality or does the interaction with stat caps require you to modify other areas of experimenting and statistics to produce better results? Have stat caps been reworked to account for this? etc. etc. etc.
my server isnt on test center. how in the hell do you expect me to tell you what my pre and post stats are on test center when my pile of resources are sitting on tarquinas. thats why i ignored your initial question. its not a feasible request. however ive been crafting a long time and can tell you what will happen just like every other crafter has been doing here this whole time. before when i made a gun i experimented the bar of my first choice to 98 percent. now when i make the gun i will hit 100 percent thanks to this buff. ill put the same leftovers into the same second choice bar as before. its that simple it doesnt take rocket science to determine the results, but since you guys have totally misintrepreted the only data presented so far we should leave it as simple as possible. lets get to that shall we?
Now while you're rolling your eyes, I know full well that you are unable to answer a single one of these questions. I have only seen ONE crafter in this thread come in here with data actually gathered from test center and presenting it to us.
ah yes that one great example that showed that yes indeed when calculating the buffs the stats go over 1000 and then the cap is applied at 100 percent experimentation. everyone sighed a collective sigh of relief as if this was a good thing when you really had no idea what this meant at all. let me explain why this nice little test center test makes it even worse for us. everyone has been saying well its just 910 and over you need thats not that big a deal. well wrong. this test shows that since the calculations go over 1000 you can effectively still hit 100 percent with resrouces lower than 910. if i have 980 oq and 880 sr then get buffed, i will still hit 100 percent experimentation because the 980 buffs over 1000 and covers the 880 being below. so there you have your great testing showing things are worse than we initially thought, yet somehow these stats seemed like a good thing to everyone here. go figure.
So instead of just complaining about what you ASSUME will happen why don't you try actually testing the system, gathering data and then giving productive suggestions with backup statistics on why it should be tweaked, instead of just crying "get rid of it now because I'm afraid?"
you dont read too well if you think thats what ive been posting. ive gone to great effort and length to explain exactly how this works and what the result will be to a lot of people that didnt even understand basic experimental processes.
I fully understand why Esh said that she would prefer to see the system USED and TESTED before it's rejected and I agree. So if you people are too busy posting on the forums to log in to TC and test it with actual crafting procedures (and not just this "I logged on and crafted a bofa treat and the system needs to be removed!!!!!!"), don't blame us when this goes live. Blame yourselves for dropping the ball on testing.
yes esh and now you as well are proposing that we should put it in at 10 percent then see how it goes and drop it down. thats ridiculous. can you follow that request with saying there will never be another crafting day also? do you even know what the crafting day was? you flame a lot but i dont think youre in any position of actually knowing what you are talking about. let me explain further for you.
crafting day was putting this system in and then realizing how horrible it was and removing it the very next day. well everyone made 100 percent experimented schematics on that one day and those are still in use as we speak barring people from even remotely competing. if you put this in at 10 percent every crafter right now will do the exact same thing. as soon as you start lowering it thats making fewer and fewer people that will ever be able to compete and you are just helping promote the very situation you are expressing so much concern over.
Message Edited by noSup4u on 08-25-2005 11:20 AM
Doriana wrote:
Please, what are we doing to make sure that this change isn't in vain, and that it has the best chance for success and revitalizing the very stagnant social and non-combat areas of SWG?
noSup4u wrote:
Have stat caps been reworked to account for this? etc. etc. etc.my server isnt on test center. how in the hell do you expect me to tell you what my pre and post stats are on test center when my pile of resources are sitting on tarquinas. thats why i ignored your initial question. its not a feasible request.
Oddly enough, I have a master dancer on Test Center. I don't play there much, but since I like to be able to give opinions and help how I can in the development of dancer, I have a master dancer character for testing.
And when a new dancer or entertainer change comes to test, I go there, and I test it. And I base my opinions and suggestions on the facts that I learn from testing on Test Center. Before I was master, I helped other people test and tried things as a non-master.
I don't sit around and expect other people to test it for me and then spazz out and complain based on conjecture instead of my own testing experiences.
I don't think it's "not a feasible request" to expect people to either test things themselves before they make assumptions or to work with the people who do test in some way.
(btw -- to the people who ARE testing this on TC, thank you. A lot.)
thanks for not responding to any of the concreteissues i presented.
again.
i dont care what you have on tc. thats not relevant to what you asked me to do and why i told you i cant.
Message Edited by noSup4u on 08-25-2005 11:35 AM