CUEmu - Thread Posts

Drygo

Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:33 am

Are you talking about afk buff-bots for doctors? I'm not a doctor, so most doctor issues don't really concern me and I haven't thought of them that much. But, if you want my honest opinion, I don't really think a doctor buff bot is ok either. I could be wrong, but I think that most people who disagree with dancer buffbots probably disagree with doctor buffbots as well, and for the same reasons. I'm sure there may be others who hold a different viewpoint, if so I'd like to hear the reasoning for it.

If you're just talking about a doctor who only wants to be a doctor so he can give buffs and make money, but still always plays at the keyboard and charges a reasonable rate so as not to put other doctors out of business, then I see no problem with it. And, I might be in the minority on these boards, but, as I've said before, I see no problems with the idea of someone becoming a dancer just to buff or heal and not to perform, that's their choice. What I have an issue with is the afk free buffbots that take away my business.

- I support hawtpants

Lesia

Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:22 am

#15

I don't go to buff bot doctors either, I like to give my credits to someone who actually plays the class. It's the same with dancers.

And I agree, we need to heal to be helpful and offer something constructive to the SWG world.

What confuses me is why someone would choose to play a profession and then not play it by spending their time afk. What's the point? Why not choose a profession you enjoy playing rather than just turning on your computer and walking away? I know holos was one reason, but with the fsquests fast approaching I think you see less and less hologrinders but more and more bots. If you wish to actually play the class then you must socialize, or it could get pretty boring justsitting there playing with yourflourishes. I think if there's any disagreement about play style it's because those who don't socialize and go afk aren't playing at all, and they make playing the profession much more difficult for those of us who do enjoy it. Every class in SWG is helpful, so choose a class best suited to your play style, something you want to experience. I just don't see turning on your computer and walking away as being fun. Maybe someone could explain to me how they have fun with a class they don't play.

Please don't take my post as being negative, but some of us "social players" really don't understandwhy a "non-social player"would choosea social class as their profession... unless it's just to make a buff/heal bot on a secondary account. In which case, I'd begged you to leave the buffing/healing to the people who enjoy doing it.

Yajedi

Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:10 pm

#16

Kreistor wrote:

Yajedi wrote:

Lesia wrote:

If you wish to actually play the class then you must socialize, or it could get pretty boring justsitting there playing with yourflourishes.

You are being sarcastic...right? I hope you do understand you are stating 100% of the problem right in that sentence."Playing" dancer is pretty boring. I can go to a chat room if I want to socialize. SWG MUST give me something more than a "chat room with graphics" in order for dancer to be a real profession.

No profession should have to create their own content in order to be fun. Every profession should be playable through game mechanics at least to a good extent. Dancer is no exception. Socializing is something we are forced to do as a dancer because dancer has no content.

Um, and what if I find creating my own content fun Vid? Everyone has different ideas of what fun is. Just because you don't find dancer fun doesn't mean it's not fun for everyone. I don't like PvP. Does that mean it's boring? Yes, to ME. but not to someone else

If dancer is boring to you, DON'T PLAY ONE!

That's not an acceptable answer. PvP has content.Dancing does not. I didn't read in the tutorial "Note:This profession has no content, don't play it unless you can make your own."

100s of people PvP every day on my server. Finding an ATK dancer (THAT IS ACTUALLY DANCING) is nearly impossible.

Vid - Doctor
----
Rokko - Dark Jedi Guardian 4-4-4-4

Kuildeous

Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:12 pm

#17

Yajedi wrote:

100s of people PvP every day on my server. Finding an ATK dancer (THAT IS ACTUALLY DANCING) is nearly impossible.

Well, yeah, a lot of us aren't needed in the cantinas because of the heal bots, so we find other ways to make money.

It's all a matter of supply and demand. Before AFK became vogue, you had people saying, "We need an Entertainer here." Someone else says, "Hey, I have 15 skill points, and I could use some money. Why not?" The system worked.

But now that AFKers are prominent, you have people saying, "We need an Entert....oh, found one!" So when the live Entertainer checks into his favorite cantina, he has no customers. He can say, "Hey, I'm here to heal people." The reply is, "Oh, we're good. Never mind."

So, there's no need for an ATK dancer to be in a cantina. People are making adequate use of the AFKers.

I haven't bothered doing real cantina work in months now. I got my money through other means.

So, of course you haven't found many ATK dancers. They don't see the demand, so they don't provide the supply too much.

RIP: Tasha Jalul - Radiant
Love Star Wars, but the few role-players I could find on the servers were outnumbered by powergamers who wanted only l337 l00t and mad skillz. I can't justify paying $15 a month to play a game by myself.
Still cares enough to interject an opinion, though.

Drygo

Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:15 pm

#18

Not only that, but I think there are more entertainers around than people know about. Most of us who consider ourselves to be true ATK performers are completely turned off by the atmosphere in the cantinas. The constant spam, the 3 songs at once, the overcrowding, etc. I think that once the hologrind is over and there are less people afk'ing, then you will see more "true" entertainers returning to the Cantinas. Certain tactics of certain afk'ers drove us out because we know there's nothing we can do about it except put up with it or leave. We can't force anyone to stop doing these things that make our Cantina experience so much less enjoyable. So, we don't go.

- I support hawtpants

Xyrdre

Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:26 pm

#19

Yajedi wrote:

That's not an acceptable answer. PvP has content. Dancing does not. I didn't read in the tutorial "Note: This profession has no content, don't play it unless you can make your own."

100s of people PvP every day on my server. Finding an ATK dancer (THAT IS ACTUALLY DANCING) is nearly impossible.

I'm sorry to say that I find this ridiculous. PvP has content, whereas dancing does not? They sure seem to have identical content to me... the need for interaction with other players.

PvP at its base needs only other players to fight with. Dancing at its base needs only other players to talk with, perform for, and heal or buff. PvP can be taken to another level with bases and raids and such. Dancing can be taken to another level with large-scale organized performance events, coordinated dance troupes and such. Where is the explicit PvP content when compared to dance content?

I think the answer is more in what interests you as a player. If you happen to enjoy beating the hell out of other players to give your gaming experience a sense of enjoyment, PvP has lots of content and you're happy. If you happen to enjoy putting on great performances and interacting (or yes, even roleplaying) with other characters, then dancing has lots of content too. If you don't like PvP, there's no content for you. Don't do it. If you don't like performing and interacting, there's no content for you. Don't do it.

Yes, a game needs to have content for all of the professions. But it is silly to think that *all* professions must have content for *all* people. I do not want to see a situation where all of the professions become homogenized into watered-down variants so that every mindset and playstyle thinks they can find their great fun in every profession. It just can't work that way... and it's why the different professions have their different roles, goals, and playstyles associated with them. The uber-leet pwners play professions suited to uber-leet pwning... the socializers play professions suited to socializing. And for those that fall in between, you can split your skill point pool and bounce between the two worlds.

If you're a dancer who wants to see some battle, pick up a second profession for combat... that's why we get a lot more skill points than we need for a single profession. If you're a battle-hardened vet who also yearns for the cheer of the crowd, go for it... pick up dancer or musician. If the only reason you wanted to play a performing class was to jockey some healing game mechanics, you've missed out on the whole core idea for these professions... and you've missed out on the vast implicit content available to entertainers.

Deila Karlossi , Blue Glowie of Dancers, and become more powerful than you could possibly imagine...

Yajedi

Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:57 pm

#20

I'm sorry but yet again anotehr person claming the #1 content for dancers is "talking". Talking is a generic social content with an MMO, it has nothing to do with Dancing. Please come up with content that a Dancer has that another person does not.

I'm demanding, for the money I pay.. and the skill points, I want to be rewarded, and not told to entertain myself.

Vid - Doctor
----
Rokko - Dark Jedi Guardian 4-4-4-4

Kuildeous

Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:52 pm

#21

Yajedi wrote:

I'm sorry but yet again anotehr person claming the #1 content for dancers is "talking". Talking is a generic social content with an MMO, it has nothing to do with Dancing. Please come up with content that a Dancer has that another person does not.

I'm demanding, for the money I pay.. and the skill points, I want to be rewarded, and not told to entertain myself.

You have all you need for dancing. You have rhythmic, basic, poplock, popular, lyrical, formal, and exotic. You have an average of about six flourishes per dance.

Talking has nothing to do with Dancing. Buffing has nothing to do with Dancing. Healing has nothing to do with Dancing. You have all you need already.

If you don't accept talking as being a part of Dancing, then you won't mind not needing the buffing.

RIP: Tasha Jalul - Radiant
Love Star Wars, but the few role-players I could find on the servers were outnumbered by powergamers who wanted only l337 l00t and mad skillz. I can't justify paying $15 a month to play a game by myself.
Still cares enough to interject an opinion, though.

FuschiaD

Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:07 pm

#22

Vid, just out of curiosity, what would they have to add to the dancer profession for YOU to think it's fun?

BTW, do not attempt to invalidate our opinions simply because they conflict with your own. If you don't find dancing fun, that's fine, but there are PLENTY who do, and plenty who find the challenge of creating their own content refreshing. I am one of those. Since when is spamming crippling shot or unarmed combo 1 "content"? That's essentially all you're doing to play your profession... right?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy combat sometimes. I think PvP can be an absolute BLAST. But when it comes down to it, all you do to make your profession function is press various hotkeys. Doesn't sound so different from dancer to me...

~*~ F U S C H I A D A R K W A L K E R ~*~

Yes, I'm a respec Jedi. Get over it.

~*~ A V A D I H A L O N A - S O E P ~*~
Entertainer For Life - COMPNOR Eye Candy
"You don't really rank around here unless you've been flamed by Oben, trolled by Mono, set straight by Geen, got caught in a love triangle between Cherry and Anoq, had your house decorated by Kipera, hugged by Esin, fondled by Fuschia, had IG respond with something inane and nonsensical, or at the very least been (a.) asked "can I have your stuff" or (b.) been accused of being a Todd by any number of random Tarquinian posters." --TalonKarrdeTN/Tyndaleon

Drygo

Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:14 pm

#23

I don't know if I can answer your question satisfactorily or not. But, this is what I consider to be content for our profession. The many types of dance, our special effects, the ability to heal, the ability to buff, cantinas (both NPC and Player), theaters (both NPC and player), the ability to choreograph and /bandflo, enhanced clothing. Most recently we got the special effects droid. We're going to be getting some sort of quests in a mini-publish, and we're going to get the Hutt social dungeon, which will give us new dance(s). I don't think the devs are ignoring us as far as content goes. Some of these are tangibly useful such as the healing and buffing. Some of them are merely neat little extras. There's only so many resources to float around, and you have to balance them with the other needs of the players community, and the other professions. I admit these new things are a long time in coming, but I think the devs are on the right track. I also am not sure how to compare our content to other professions. Because really, what could we possibly have that would make us "uber." We don't need high level armor or anything like that. If we want something for others to be envious about, I think the social dungeon is going to provide that for us because we will have to earn the new dance.

As far as "talking" goes. Well, I suppose that is content for every profession because we all have access to chat channels. But, I really do think it's integral to our profession. The other professions, such as combat, use grouping to kill high level creatures. The artisans use talking and salesmanship in order to sell their wares. We use talking, singing, etc. to make ourselves more entertaining. Maybe it's not so much content, but it's definitely a tool that we are more than likely expected to use in order to help us along in our profession.

I also could be dead wrong about this, but I think a majority of people attracted to the dancer profession isn't interested in uber loot and high end content, per se. Sure, I think most of us are excited about the social dungeon and quests because it'll give us something interesting to do. But, generally, those attracted to the social professions simply enjoy being social. Our degree of socialness afforded by our venue and what we do is greater than the socialness afforded the other professions. And, I think the devs rightfully geared our cantina space towards that end. Of course, I want to be able to heal battle fatigue out in the fields, I want our buffs to last more than two hours. But, I have to say, I always go back to the Cantinas. Because, quite frankly, there are times I log on and I don't feel like doing anything except going into a Cantina, dancing, and chatting people up. I was attracted to this profession precisely because I could do that. I mean, honestly. If I mastered 3 combat skills, for example, those nights I wanted to log on play, be lazy, and not do anything would render me bored and useless. If I didn't want to fight, what would I do to feel like I was accomplishing anything? I really wouldn't have any options. As a dancer, my human can be lazy, go to a cantina, dance, and participate in the Cantina. I think that's great. If I wasn't a dancer I could still go to the cantina, but I couldn't do anything there EXCEPT talk. I would feel very envious that I couldn't get up and dance, hehe. I think people underestimate all the moves and effects we get. I find them extraordinarily fun. There are really only a small percentage of people that this attracts. That's probably a good thing. I wouldn't want *everyone* to be a dancer. But, you see, I'm always ATK, I'm always dancing, flourishing, testing out techniques to see what looks good. To me that is extremely fun! Those that don't find this to be fun, and don't enjoy this kind of content might be better served in a different profession. I don't say that to be nasty or pompous. But, I think people have to do what they consider fun in the game. We have so many options, and this game caters to so many different types of gameplay. That is what is so great about it! You have to find your niche and do it. Am I happy we're getting all this new content? Absolutely! And, if we weren't, there could be a time where I would get bored dancing and I would say that it's simply not enough. Would I lobby for more content? Absolutely. And, I do not fault you at all for wanting more and lobbying for more. I love dancing so much that I would most likely do that for awhile so that I could still dancing and still feel the passion and pizazz for it. But, if it didn't happen, I would probably have to move on. Maybe I'd come back because I'd miss it, or more content was added. But for me, going on my 5th month of dancing, I'm very happy with what we have and think we have a good amount of content. It's just a different kind of content than the other professions and attracts a certain type of player.

I think I'll end this post because I find myself rambling and repeating myself.

- I support hawtpants

Yajedi

Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:27 pm

#24

They add new dungeons, new weapons new weapon enhancements to the game with every publish. The geonosian caves, the corvette... both 100% combat.

Dancers have gotten a couple flourishes "fixed" (although I dare say half the people liked the old ones better). An exotic leotard that reduces buff time requirements. And now we got some love from the droid publish.

How to fix? I'm not even worrying about that right now. If the dancer forum thinks "dancer" is okay as is, then whatever I want is pointless. I look around, and it's not just me. People I want played with long ago that were dancers aren'tdancers anymore. They haveeither turned to PvP, or quitthe game. People I PvPed with long ago still PvP.

When I go into public cantinas, there's no master entertainer types ATK... when i go into private cantinas, it's either a buff bot or nobody. This makes me think that dancer needs some help. But when you come to this forum most of the regulars post and say "dancer is just fine as is".

Vid - Doctor
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Rokko - Dark Jedi Guardian 4-4-4-4

Drygo

Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:40 pm

#25

Well, like I said, I understand wanting more content. After awhile, there comes a point where even the most avid dancer will begin to feel bored with what they have. I don't fault you or anybody else who feels that way. I just haven't gotten to that point yet. But, I'm very excited that they are adding new content, and I think you should absolutely try to ask for more content. Even though the perception is that a lot of dancers on this forum may like the status quo, I guarantee you that most of us will support you if you have specific ideas about what content could be added. See, Panthu's thread on dancer enhancements. There's a lot of great feedback there, and a lot of neat ideas that a lot of people support. None of us are going to be adverse to new content, at least I don't think so. I get pretty darn excited about it. And, I'm excited that the devs are paying us some much needed attention recently.

I'm sorry if you feel like there are a lot of us on these forums that are knocking your desire for more content. I certainly don't mean to, if I've ever come across that way. But, like I said, I'm very happy with our profession currently. But, that doesn't mean that I don't support new content. Because as happy as I am now with our content, I know that I won't always be. There will be a time where I say, "Can't we get something else to play with?" And, I think we'd all be better off supporting each others content ideas for the longterm good of our profession.

- I support hawtpants

Yajedi

Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:14 am

#26

Lesia wrote:

What confuses me is why someone would choose to play a profession and then not play it by spending their time afk. What's the point? Why not choose a profession you enjoy playing rather than just turning on your computer and walking away?

It's not that way. Look... I'm at work right now. I have to be here... tonight I'll go to bed and sleep. The thing is. I can turn my pc on, and do these things that I have to do... and be 100% of the dancer I am when I am playing the game. I have to walk away fromthe PC anyway... why not turn it on before I do?

If you wish to actually play the class then you must socialize, or it could get pretty boring justsitting there playing with yourflourishes.

You are being sarcastic...right? I hope you do understand you are stating 100% of the problem right in that sentence."Playing" dancer is pretty boring. I can go to a chat room if I want to socialize. SWG MUST give me something more than a "chat room with graphics" in order for dancer to be a real profession.

No profession should have to create their own content in order to be fun. Every profession should be playable through game mechanics at least to a good extent. Dancer is no exception. Socializing is something we are forced to do as a dancer because dancer has no content.

Vid - Doctor
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Rokko - Dark Jedi Guardian 4-4-4-4

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