Dancer Archive
Thread: Brainstorm Topic Improving Mind Buff Accessibility
Panthu
Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:19 am
#14
Dreamland wrote:
I'm not talking about the buffbot sticky panthu. Im talking about the interesting idea to revamp the buffing process thread. There are a great deal of ideas in there and no arguing.
Oh, lol, yeah, we have two actually. Still, those were real discussions with a real proposal starting each one... this is just a free for all. 
Coreena
Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:29 am
#15
PoetDancer wrote:
Our three mechanical functions are all the same function, albeit with different effects. This is how it was intended to be at launch. The only thing that makes buffing different is that it requires an authorization either in terms of a /setperform or invite.
The problem that exists as I see it is that we can only buff via /setperform one at a time, or /invite buff up to 19 at a time.
I would rather have these buff protocols taken away entirely. We never had them at launch, and it seems we were all quite happy back then. This will make buffing more available than now because:
1) Players will know exactly what to do to get a buff. No "wonks" because the two did not coordinate their commands. Simply /watch. This makes both patrons and performers lighten up and enjoy the experience for what it is and what it was meant to be. This will increase the availability for buffs, because there will be less "wonked" buffs, as well as an INCREASE IN TIPS due to the fact that we will be better able to service more patrons in an error free process.
No!
This would only make it even more easier for buffbots
It would not increase tips cause people would even more take our buffs and service for granted. They tip sh*t for healing already, if they can just start watching without even asking us to type a /setperform then they'll just take getting a buff for as granted, and tip us as "generously".
I like to know who i buff, I want to decide who I buff and when. You don't just walk up to a doc who has a med droid out type /buffd you're buffed. The doc has to do it, and it should be the same with dancers.
Groovymarlin
Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:42 am
#16
1. Make entertainer buffs last three hours, to be on par with doctor buffs. I still think that the time needed to give the buff is fair - about 3 and a half minutes if you are quickness/stamina buffed. Doctors use resources, we use time. But make our buff duration on par with theirs.
2. Allow dancers and musicians to buff all three mind pools simultaneously. I would sell a LOT more buffs if I could buff focus and willpower as well as mind. The number one complaint I hear from combatants who CAN find me for a mind buff is that they can't find a musician for a focus/willpower buff. This way a dancer or a musician could buff all three - more efficient, more available, more valuable. No more wondering if your focus/willpower buff really failed - if the mind pool jumps, you know the secondaries have also.
3. Please do not take away the only control we have over buffing. If the /setperform command is removed and anyone can be buffed simply by watching me, how does that benefit me? How does that encourage me to do anything other than just dance without flourishes until I get paid? Frankly, I feel taking away all gating to the buff process is a surefire way to multiply the buffbot population geometically! Instead, give us more control over buffing. Please create a small window, similar to the enhancements window, that lists who we currently have /setperform on.Allow the window to be closed if not in use. Perhaps allow us to /setperform up to four or five people at one time. Make the patron's name in the window change color when the buff has been applied (or indicate it some other way).
4. Please do not give mind/focus/willpower buffs to doctors. Even if it requires a rare resource. If buffs are taken away and given to doctors, our classes might as well be eliminated. Perhaps give dancers the craftable item we have been asking for, the "holodisc" that records a performance and allows a patron to view it in the wild and receive a buff. Perhaps a shorter-duration (1 hour? 1 and a half hours?) buff, just enough to last them until they can find an entertainer again.
5. Allow us to buff outside the cantina, if we have an entertainer droid. Much like the doctor and his surgical droid, allow us to give our buffs in out of the way places with our droid present. Street performances, buffing at the starport, etc.
6. Please follow through on the promise to eliminate the non-playstyle of long term AFK. Make it so our buffs cannot be given while 100% AFK. Eliminate recursive macros if necessary, or include some option that requires the buffer to be ATK.
Galjoss
Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:43 am
#17
I think you should be allowed to perform mind buffs in a camp allowing for buffs to be performed on the feild, this would also have the benefit of making scout/ranger usefull, prehaps the buff could be more successfull in better tents.
Groovymarlin
Fri Sep 10, 2004 9:50 am
#18
Galjoss wrote:
I think you should be allowed to perform mind buffs in a camp allowing for buffs to be performed on the feild, this would also have the benefit of making scout/ranger usefull, prehaps the buff could be more successfull in better tents.
We can already mind buff in camps.
PoetDancer
Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:14 am
#19
I am not going to get into an argument about this thing, Coreena. I'll save it for another post. Saying that entertainers who do not have the buff do not get tipped is self-evidently false. I received tips as high as 100k as an apprentice dancer on Bria doing basic 2.
This thread is about accessibility. Not how to make money as a dancer. And I can say that my proposals will improve the accessibility with a minimum of change.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-10-2004 12:15 PM
Dreamland
Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:19 am
#20
Thats not realy a minimum, its pretty sweeping. I perform for sheer entertaiment myself and not just to buff, and i don't want to see us loose our control over buffs. And quite simply not every entertainer can get tips of 100k doing basic 2 as you do, buffs were, or at least they should have beenmeant to be an alternative means of income not a sole means, in my opinion. Theres room for buffing if it's implemented right.
PoetDancer wrote:
I am not going to get into an argument about this thing, Coreena. I'll save it for another post. Saying that entertainers who do not have the buff do not get tipped is self-evidently false. I received tips as high as 100k as an apprentice dancer on Bria doing basic 2.
This thread is about accessibility. Not how to make money as a dancer. And I can say that my proposals will improve the accessibility with a minimum of change.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 09-10-2004 12:15 PM
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-10-2004 10:22 AM
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-10-2004 10:25 AM
Dreamland
Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:23 am
#21
Here is a repost of my idea:
I think maybe just speed them up a bit, maybe make it so you can do a 3 minute buff with regular flourishing instead of mad 1 second flourishing. I also think the group buff needs to go at least in its current form.
The trouble to me with the group buff is 1: it enables buffbots and 2: it creates a situation where the entertainer has to leave their group in order to to buff, and even when buffbots in their current form are gone this creates a situation where the buffing entertainer should they be out there just to buff, is still acting as an xp sop to the main group as they cannot be a part of it and group buff as many will no doubt choose to use as their choice method of buff.
What id propose instead is a new interface with the same principles as image designer:
: There would be a window interface that is basicaly a list with an add, apply andkickbutton. it would open upon the first use of /setperform on a target.
: The window would be visible to entertainer and to the customer as well.
: The entertainer would add customers to the list by targeting and clicking add up to a maximum of 20
: Upon being added the customer gets a system message that says "(entertainersname) has invited you for a mind enhancement please begin watching or listening now."
: Once the customer starts watching a blue progress bar appears next to thier name indicating the completion of the buff.
: Once the buff is compete it does NOT take effect til the dancer highlights the customers name and clicks apply, if they click on kick at this point or at any point the customer is removed without a buff. This allows the entertainer a way to enforce payment.
: A checkbox toggle would be available for autoapply on completion for entertainers that wish to buff on a tips only system.
: Upon pressing the apply button the customer gets a system message that says "you have recieved a mind enhancement from (entertainersname) enjoy."
: On pressing the kick button the customer is informed via system message as well.
The only problem i see with this sytem is recieving musician and dancer buffs at the same time which used to be a possibility before it was bugged, as the complexity of a second window would make it confusing to the customer and harder to implement. In this case its something i've often thought of that musicians and dancers should be put on even ground and be able to apply both primary and secondary stat buffs. This would make it easier for the customer whono longer has to search out both a master musician and a master dancer to get a full set of buffs.
Ternque01
Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:29 am
#22
I have a good solution idea.
One problem with buff accessibility is the hastle you have to go through to add someone to a group to get a buff. A dancer should get a radial menu option on all persons watching him/her regardless if they are grouped. After the dancer gets a tip he/she could select a "Give Buff" command from the radial menu to start a buff timer for that person.
Make a dancer have the capability to buff more than 19 other people at a time and without the complicated hastle of getting them in group. More customers.. more money... easier to use for both parties. Plus the dancer can get the real feel like they are actually attending their watchers.
I also like the idea of a dancer/musician with buff capabilities have the option to put up a world-map flag when they feel like doing business. This way combatants won't have to scour cantina after cantina either to find them empty or to find themselves with extremely poor communication channels to find a particular dancer out of a large group who is actually buffing.
I can't tell you the number of times my combat team has to /examine the bios, read the titles,and do profession searches just to find the one dancer/musician that is buffing out of a crowd of 30 entertainers. Some combatants resort to trying to spam "Who can buff here?" just to find one.... I know how annoying that is to you guys and gals. It's not that they are being rude, it's that there are poor communication channels to find buffing entertainers and when faced with this disparity people can do some pretty desperate stuff.
With a "I'm buffing" flag that can be selected to view on the world map, people would be able to easily find working entertainers... I personally dislike traveling 2-3k from town to town just to find empty cantinas or cantinas so full you don't know who is buffing... it sucks!
Ravenmist
Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:31 am
#23
Okay, since this is about how to make them more accessible to the public I'll give my two cents on how I think we could help the situation.
1. Fix and Improve the registration ability. They need to make it so that people can tell if someone is healing or buffing by looking at the map. They also need to be able to tell if the person is a Master or not. Someone should be able to look at the map and see that a Master Dancer is buffing in this cantina. Going AFK should remove someone from registration, so should leaving the cantina. Also there needs to be more locations entertainers can register at.
2. Make it so that Master Dancers and Master Musicians can buff all 3 stats. Finding both a Master Musician and a Master Dancer can be a very difficult task for the combat crowd sometimes. This would make things loads easier for them. If they devs felt it was necessary they could increase the minimum time needed to apply a buff by a few minutes to compenstate.
Also the idea of the missions isn't bad either. Making it so that the missions only sent people to remote locations on that planet or to more advanced adventure planets with the pay scaling properly to make it worth the time would help spread the entertainers out making it a little easier to find them. Especially on the tougher planets where they are needed more and found less.
The "I'm buffing" tag is a good idea also. Help the buffers stand out more.
Please stick to the subject people.. the strength of the buff and how to make money are not part of this thread. This is about how to make it easier for people to get the buffs, anything other then that is not relevent to this thread.
- Ravenmist
Message Edited by Ravenmist on 09-10-2004 01:36 PM
Ternque01
Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:37 am
#24
I also really like this particular idea very very much.
Let's say that a group of tired and beat up warriors comes into a cantina to be refreshed. Label the table booths in the cantinas A-Z or whatever. These combatants go sit at table C and one of the group goes up to the bartender and requests some dancers for their table. Instantly a mission is created on the entertainer mission terminal that tell the dancer/musician "A group is in need of some entertainment at table C"
A dancer takes the mission and walks over to table C, makes his/her introductions and begins to dance for them. Tips would go around and the entertainer would even get a mission payout from the cantina for their services.
This would make the table booths in cantinas actually lively and would create more of a restaurant/bar feel than the current "fast food" feel they now have. It would also facilitate groups trying to find a dancer/musician who is actually looking to give buffs.
In addition, I feel as if the lower level dancers/musicians should have buffing capabilities that are actually marketable. Maybe the buffs don't last as long, maybe they aren't as strong, maybe they take a bit longer to get, but currently I feel as if lower-level entertainers don't have marketable buffs at all... this I don't like to see.
Dreamland
Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:42 am
#25
Ternque01 wrote:
I have a good solution idea.
One problem with buff accessibility is the hastle you have to go through to add someone to a group to get a buff. A dancer should get a radial menu option on all persons watching him/her regardless if they are grouped. After the dancer gets a tip he/she could select a "Give Buff" command from the radial menu to start a buff timer for that person.
Make a dancer have the capability to buff more than 19 other people at a time and without the complicated hastle of getting them in group. More customers.. more money... easier to use for both parties. Plus the dancer can get the real feel like they are actually attending their watchers.
Actualy this is the exact same idea i posted with no interface, i disagree on there being more than 20 and in fact im rethinking the 20 i proposed in my post,I think maybe more like 5 or10 as a max is a more reasonable number. If one dancer can buff more than 20 people at a time it removes opertunities for the other dancers in the cantina.
I also like the idea of a dancer/musician with buff capabilities have the option to put up a world-map flag when they feel like doing business. This way combatants won't have to scour cantina after cantina either to find them empty or to find themselves with extremely poor communication channels to find a particular dancer out of a large group who is actually buffing.
This is good and should be expanded to include doctors as well, if a player could put up some offering enhancements tag it would go a long way to making spam unnecesary both in the cantinas and for buffing doctors as well.
I can't tell you the number of times my combat team has to /examine the bios, read the titles,and do profession searches just to find the one dancer/musician that is buffing out of a crowd of 30 entertainers. Some combatants resort to trying to spam "Who can buff here?" just to find one.... I know how annoying that is to you guys and gals. It's not that they are being rude, it's that there are poor communication channels to find buffing entertainers and when faced with this disparity people can do some pretty desperate stuff.
With a "I'm buffing" flag that can be selected to view on the world map, people would be able to easily find working entertainers... I personally dislike traveling 2-3k from town to town just to find empty cantinas or cantinas so full you don't know who is buffing... it sucks!
I think alot of this can be covered by having registration fixed and possibly working better, perhaps when someone that has their buff tag on is registered a little icon indicating buffs available apears next to the cantina too.
PoetDancer
Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:42 am
#26
Dreamland wrote:
Here is a repost of my idea:
I think maybe just speed them up a bit, maybe make it so you can do a 3 minute buff with regular flourishing instead of mad 1 second flourishing. I also think the group buff needs to go at least in its current form.
The trouble to me with the group buff is 1: it enables buffbots and 2: it creates a situation where the entertainer has to leave their group in order to to buff, and even when buffbots in their current form are gone this creates a situation where the buffing entertainer should they be out there just to buff, is still acting as an xp sop to the main group as they cannot be a part of it and group buff as many will no doubt choose to use as their choice method of buff.
What id propose instead is a new interface with the same principles as image designer:
: There would be a window interface that is basicaly a list with an add, apply andkickbutton. it would open upon the first use of /setperform on a target.
: The window would be visible to entertainer and to the customer as well.
: The entertainer would add customers to the list by targeting and clicking add up to a maximum of 20
: Upon being added the customer gets a system message that says "(entertainersname) has invited you for a mind enhancement please begin watching or listening now."
: Once the customer starts watching a blue progress bar appears next to thier name indicating the completion of the buff.
: Once the buff is compete it does NOT take effect til the dancer highlights the customers name and clicks apply, if they click on kick at this point or at any point the customer is removed without a buff. This allows the entertainer a way to enforce payment.
: A checkbox toggle would be available for autoapply on completion for entertainers that wish to buff on a tips only system.
: Upon pressing the apply button the customer gets a system message that says "you have recieved a mind enhancement from (entertainersname) enjoy."
: On pressing the kick button the customer is informed via system message as well.
The only problem i see with this sytem is recieving musician and dancer buffs at the same time which used to be a possibility before it was bugged, as the complexity of a second window would make it confusing to the customer and harder to implement. In this case its something i've often thought of that musicians and dancers should be put on even ground and be able to apply both primary and secondary stat buffs. This would make it easier for the customer whono longer has to search out both a master musician and a master dancer to get a full set of buffs.
YUCK! This is exactly the kind of thing that would drive me from the professions. I am the distraction.
Too many bars, windows, procedures, and things to distract a patron's attention from my performance. Not only that, it does not make buffs any more available than the current system. Its still a limit of 20. That's unacceptable to me who wants to service the 21st patron to the best I am capable of when both I and the patron wants it to be done.