Dancer Archive
Thread: A Compromise of Sorts Updated 09-30-2004 06:57 PM
picklesSW
Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:45 am
#14
I like the idea, though I would limit it to healing BF and wounds. Buffing isn't a god given right and hopefully with the combat balance the necessity for buffs will be reduced anyway. I'd like people to have to find a live entertainer for a buff.
Shyloche
Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:59 am
#15
game mechanics aside, I think the idea is great from a character perspective. As part of my bio I'm a holonet performer, entirely RP of course, since there is no game mechanic for it. So for me personally, it would be something I would like to see. I would not, however, want to see it at further cost to our profession. If we were better off or no worse off than now (change current evils for new evils) then I would still be all for it.
Drygo
Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:12 am
#16
First of all, I'm still not convinced that holorecordings would ruin the Cantinas. I just don't see that happening. But, of course, in my world, holorecordings aren't used for healing, just for buffing. And, they aren't crafted, they are recorded, one at a time.
Having said that, however, I really do like the idea of being on "TV." I think that would be a great content addition for entertainers. But, the problem I see with it, is that it is simply too much work, and I don't see the devs ever agreeing to putting in the time to do something like this. I love talking about neat additions to entertainer. But, at the same time, I don't like talking about it because I get excited about an idea, and then bam! mentally I realize, it's never gonna happen and I get disappointed. But, yes, if this were possible, I would be all for it.
Drygo
Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:15 am
#17
picklesSW wrote:
I like the idea, though I would limit it to healing BF and wounds. Buffing isn't a god given right and hopefully with the combat balance the necessity for buffs will be reduced anyway. I'd like people to have to find a live entertainer for a buff.
Well, the thing about this is...if a mission terminal were available that would allow us to know when someone needs healing, then the combat player would more easily also be able to find someone who is going to buff. I personally don't have that big a problem with doing a TV buff. However, if that's not what the rest of us want, the fact is the combat player should now be able to know where someone is broadcasting live from, so they could go there.
Message Edited by Drygo on 09-30-2004 10:16 AM
Electro
Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:37 am
#18
I personally dislike the idea. I don't think it is too much to ask that combat players actually see an entertainer once in a while, just as they have to see a doctor once in a while. No one is advocating that doctors have to be available 24x7 in every outpost, and yet somehow we have to be.
Personally, I think we should let the dust settle (assuming the macros ever go away, which honestly, at this point, I'll barely believe even if I see it) and then see if there is a need for something along these lines.
Ikewe
Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:03 am
#19
In the world in which I live if a player needs a doctor and there is no doctor physically at that location, they send a tell to the doctor and offer to pay a substantial amount of money to have the doctor travel there for the few moments it will take to heal/buff/rez what have you. Before the robot addiction I used to get similar tells all the time. In the far distant future when robots are banned by the Empire, I would expect Joe Combat to activate his comms unit and pay me to travel to him or he can pay for a shuttle ride to me. It's really not that complicated and doesn't require one bit of effort from the development team.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Panthu
Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:08 am
#20
First, a note on the Holo Recordings - generally speaking, the Dev Team is not big on these as a normal crafted item. What has not gotten the same feedback is the idea of a Holo Recording given with "charges", like the IDs Holo Emotes. IDs have to apply those, but the client walks away with a limited number of charges to use as they see fit. When those run out, they have to go back to the ID. If we are going to get something like a Holo Recording, it will most likely be more along these lines.
~@~
We talked about something similar to Eaca's proposal not too long ago. The idea was to have prompters in all NPC Cantinas where Patrons could be healed even if an Ent was not around as long as an Ent had left a recording there. The Ent would be paid by the NPC Cantina to record a show there and leave it on the prompter to be viewed so many times, then it would clear out and another Ent would need to be hired by the system. Remote locations should pay higher, because we won't be sticking around there, as Eaca said. We do want to be where the people are after all. 
This plan is fine to me, because we are not left out of the loop. There is still an Ent being paid every time someone gets healed. This is much better than the NPC plan imo but still addresses the same need. It is immersive, because I can just hear Dancers saying "Oh, those people out in Dearic are comming me again. They've sold out of my last show and want a new session!" If we could get the Devs to put in an advert type sign saying which Ents were being promoted there at the cantina, it would go with the whole fame angle.
Anyway, these ideas are a lot a like. I think either might be considered. I'm sure whichever has the least overhead would be the one with the most chance of implementation.
Edit: Jeez at the typos! O.o
Message Edited by Panthu on 09-30-2004 02:18 PM
AnakinSWG
Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:20 pm
#21
Eaca wrote:
Yes more ents would come or go back to being ents if they left, but I don't think we'll ever see enough ents to where they're common in out of place areas.
Have you ever tried to find a Master Doc ona forward planet in off-peak hours? Our services are going to be demanded more frequently, of course! That's what we're asking for. But there's no point (in my opinion) of perpetuating the cycle of having players believe that mind buffs are their right, and are to be available at all times, regardless of the time, demand levels, or even the proximity of a live entertainer. If it's an off-peak time, then yes, they'll need a way to find a buffing entertainer. (/who, /register (someday),chat channels, friends lists, manual search ofpopular city cantinas). I've been forced to do this with Doctors many times. I honestly believe that the buffing services of a Dancer or Musician should be no more readily available than any other profession.
Our services are going to be demanded more frequently, of course! That's what we're asking for. But there's no point (in my opinion) of perpetuating the cycle of having players believe that mind buffs are their right, and are to be available at all times, regardless of the time, demand levels, or even the proximity of a live entertainer. If it's an off-peak time, then yes, they'll need a way to find a buffing entertainer. (/who, /register (someday),chat channels, friends lists, manual search ofpopular city cantinas). I've been forced to do this with Doctors many times. I honestly believe that the buffing services of a Dancer or Musician should be no more readily available than any other profession.I know there are two sides to this debate, though, and am probably a bit jaded at the moment. I'm still somewhat open to your ideas, of course 
FuschiaD
Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:56 pm
#22
The ONLY idea for off-peak healing I like is recording and selling 'holovids' of dances or whatever. That will at least allow us to continue to sell our wares, even when we're not online. Anything else singles us out unfairly.
Message Edited by FuschiaD on 09-30-2004 12:57 AM
Tandava
Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:06 pm
#23
If the Dev's WANT to do it then the coding becomes a non-issue.
All our difficulties have been convincing them what they want to do with us. We have a divided community of a small percentage of players in an unusual aspect of the game without broad support by the other professions.
If we make our wants everyone's wants, we might have a much better chance of getting somewhere.
I've been dancing as long as anyone here who wasn't in BETA, I have been possibly more disappointed because my entire focus has been on performance and private cantinas, but I really won't accept the issue of it won't happen until we actually try to sell ourselves, because we haven't. We haven't even tried to get broad based support using the tools we have yet. We haven't really used Panthu to her potential nor our contacts nor these forums.
If there are a few things we want that can benefit everyone then lets try that as our leverage in. This suggestion might be one of them, perhaps another might be. It is far more approachable then the ranger camp idea because of who it benefits and how it could work. It initimately supports at the keyboard entertainers. If you remove buffs altogether you then remove even more reason to have someone contact entertainers and mess with the high end content they have been putting in place. (I wouldn't not have minded no buffs myself but by suggesting that you are negatively targetting doctors and chefs and that is a bad political move).
***Edit
I also want to say that there wasn't a "Good Old Days" for cantinas. July 2003, August 2003 cantinas were also not always fun places to be in fact most of us who were serious dancers tried to get out and make our own places, guilds and groups as fast as we could. Before buffs we were resented strongly, we were insulted, we had afk'ing. We did have more leverage for connections and being used as information points, we did actually get some tips for healing and wound healing but not everyone and not much and we all had to work ALOT harder for it.
I do not think it is a matter of let the dust settle the macros be changed and have everyone go back to a golden age. I do not think that will happen. I definitely do not think the Developers consider ever taking a step backward, only forwards.
We get where we are because we know people, we self promote, word of mouth, predictability and quality. We should be focusing on systems that allow us to push that, not waiting for the game to change a dynamic and think people fill in the gaps. Needs have changed because the game has changed, we should find ways we can adapt to promote our needs and use the changing needs of others to enhance ourselves. This system has nothing passive about it. Contact with live entertainers and negotiation happens, it is a more active process then someone slipping into a cantina. Once we get people back to thinking that entertainers are wonderful things when they are live they will be more likely to save some credits or find those live entertainers.
Its about new friendships, new contact, new promotion and new respect. Its about getting others to think we are handy and essential and a bit cool because of a new toy. The credits, the time, everything else falls into place after and then we have more support for things like new dances, music, props, etc.
Message Edited by Tandava on 09-30-2004 03:17 PM
Oqua
Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:14 pm
#24
I agree that we aren't like doctors...the only reason I even liken them to us is because they are the only other class, not entertainer based, that does offer buffs.
The only reason I worry about any type of compromise or "autobuff/autoheal" function is the possible replacement or reinforcement that entertainers can easily be replaced (as we are seeing quite easily now with buffbots and afk zombies).
Plus, a big problem I have with bots is the fact that they leech much needed healing xp from those who are trying to achieve mastery in an entertaining profession. With this holo thing, we still aren't getting the people into the cantinas...we still would be leaving out the up and coming performer.
I think we do need to give the ATK entertainers a boost, though I was more along the lines of adding a healing xp boost or some other type of fun interface, or maybe some better quest rewards (yes, I know the current one in TC is wonky, but it doesn't have to be a new dance/song....I just now got around to doing the theme parks, and I really enjoyed them immensely, so something like that perhaps?).
What I would like to seeare two things:
Entertainers viability bolstered by any coming changes (not more fuel to the fire of "easily replaced")
and...
Working to get more people interested in dance/music who are "up and coming" in the ranks so to speak (not get them so discouraged with a lack of healing xp they wonder if they will ever achieve master status)
Message Edited by Oqua on 09-30-2004 01:16 PM
AnakinSWG
Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:22 pm
#25
My one real worry is that a limited-use buff of any size would be implemented in such a way that one-on-one interaction would be deemed unnecessary by the community at large. I'm worried about a skewing of our wishes that would turn us all into mere buff-vendors.
"/shout Need your mind buff before headingto the Village? Visit the Stardust Cantina at -1341 1466, just outside Theed, to double your mind stats!"
I tend to side with those who feel the massive coding probably needed for a live long-distance buff / heal would place it at the bottom of the wish list, and possibly end up beingreplaced by a simple crafted version of our buffs. If it was even 75% of the power of one Master Dancer buff, that would effectively eliminate ALL dancers at Tech IV and below from the economy. If duration was reduced on a crafted/stored buff, the player only needs to 'stock up,' or grind out of a personal cantina to easily return for another easy-access mind buff.
Interaction with a liveentertainer would have to be encouraged for that not to happen.
Otherwise, our cantinas die completely, along withthe social aspect of our profession.
IF live interaction with entertainers is still largely beneficial and/or necessary, and IF non-Masters can still reap the rewards of atk play (offering smaller mind buffs and healing when Masters are not around, as well as gaining healing xp from Masters grouped with them), then I will gladly support the implementationa new system. But any system that fails to deliver on either of those fronts could harm our profession even more, in my opinion.
AnakinSWG
Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:26 pm
#26
I should have refreshed before hitting Submit, because I SO totally copied Oqua's post