Dancer Archive
Thread: A bunch of Afk Macroing Ingrates?
Padtai
Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:47 pm
#14
People have made comments on the looks of my character, a doctor, sometimes. And let me tell you, I doubt anyone would generalize that all doctors are rude and not worth using if I did, but somehow that is what this guy thought about dancers.
So for this person to generalize it to dancers suggests he had some preconceived ideas that dancers are SUPPOSED to flirt with him. In fact, the whole statement, that she was a "pretty dancer", not a pretty character..it suggests that he did think that.
If he didn't, explainto me whathe meant by "in case you ever forgot?" in response to her saying she was married?
To me, that sounds like "If you ever forget your'e married" and I"m sorry, but that is a hell of a rude, sleazy thing to say.
If all he did was say "you're pretty", then yes, telling him to go kiss the sky is a huge overreaction. If I were her, I would have said "TY" and quickly change the subject.
That is what I do when people tell me my character is pretty. But the one time someone said "Nice a##" I put that person on ignore, or the time someone said they needed a /f*k command, I reported him. No one expects the doctor to flirt, thank goodness, so when I don't respond the way they want they don't get mad at all doctors,or even necessarily at me. And if someone said to forget I was married, and I am to the same man in game and out, why exactly shouldn't I ignore them? Maybe I wouldn' t say "piss off", but I would definitely ignore them.
SOmehow though, there are plenty of people, mostly men I'd guess, who DO expect entertainers to flirt and get angry when they do not. He can pretend he was mad about her saying piss off, but I don't think so. Look at the conclusions he drew--never tip a dancer. Why? I can see he would say never tip this one dancer, as its clear she doesn't want to interact with him again, but why all dancers? Unless the only reason he tiped dancers before was to get some flirtation out of it.
That's what it sounds like to me, and well, I know some entertainers do like to flirt while performing, but not all of them do and you aren't paying them for it...
In fact, that is what I think the problem is. Too many people confuse entertainers with a different sort ofprofession that is paid to flirt. And if you go into a cantina thinking that is what entertainers are there to do for you, then you are going to be upset if they don't react the way you want them to act. And then it makes sense to say never tip dancers, because of course, the tip is not guaranteed to get you flirtation. And if the only other thing you want out of entertainers is buffs...well...there you go, a person headed straight to the buff machine since nothing else the perfomer could do would keep them there.
Drygo
Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:07 pm
#15
Esharra wrote:
What strikes me as interesting is that the title of this threads has nothing to do with the conversation quoted in the first post.
LOL...I was confused too, but didn't say anything because I didn't want to look stupid. So, in accordance with my "not looking stupid" policy, I just went with the flow of the conversation.
Padtai
Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:12 pm
#16
I feel sorry for the master dancers and musicians in any Cantina that are ACTUALLY there and not on their second account out running down the enemies of the Empire. You know you are lonely when your only account is a master dancer and all you do is watch that rediculous strip bar dance for hours on end as you buff other players.
My advise?
1 - get an afk macro going
2 - get a second account (if you MUST have an entertainer)
3 - buff yourself and reply back to every message that you are a good lookin' chick in a thong with "I know, tip me some more credits and I'll talk with you"
4 - then go work on your jedi grind
What would motivte someone to post something so nasty and illogical...lonilnes? Lack of self esteem? A desire for attention, perhaps even negative attention?
My advise?
1) Learn to play nicely with others
2) Don't spend all your money on a video game
3) Don't be snide and stupid or encourage others to be
4) Remember grinding isn't everyone's idea of fun.
Aleyo
Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:26 pm
#17
Nacoa wrote:
Um...guys...
"Patron: "Just in case you ever forgot.""
That one's gonna get you in trouble. It implies "In case you forget you're married because I'm so sexy and you're such a s[ut, then we can hook up and do the nasty on the bar".
That one line got him in trouble, as I think it should have coming out of nowhere. Now, if he'd had more of a conversation with her before this, he might have been able to construe it as a joke, but with no previous conversation, this just looks like a very awkward come-on line.
Did no one else think of the possibility that this meant "in case you ever forget that you're pretty, remember I told you so?"
It sounds like something I might say to someone I loved.
Whereas "in case you ever forget you're married" is a construction I wouldn't even think to say, but rather something like "in case you ever divorce" or "in case you ever want to cheat" if going sleazy. I don't find it easy to conceive of the idea of "in case you ever forget you're married."
Anyways, it seems that regardless, there are miscommunications going on here.
Tandava
Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:58 pm
#18
But it isn't someone he loves Aleyo and that is very, very, very clear. It was said to a stranger and the cultural implication for it being said to a stranger right after someone says I'm married is not the lovely interpretation you think about.
It is in fact from a pure grammatical view of the english language directly referring to her married state.
What I do think is curious is that the original poster got sympathy and leeway about the conversation almost universally from fellow men and almost (not all on either side) all the women chimed in with a different view of it. That doesn't necessarily mean all men are sleazy 
but it does point to very distinct gendered perceptions for boundaries, acceptable behavior with conversation with strangers, or a strange dancer, in this case. Different perceptions.
but it does point to very distinct gendered perceptions for boundaries, acceptable behavior with conversation with strangers, or a strange dancer, in this case. Different perceptions.Its one thing to get a term of endearment from someone you love and trust or someone you already share a bond to. But everyone here has read many many stories of harrassment, horrible behavior, and objectification of players and charactersby people toward dancers and pernicious assumptions. I'm not saying what actually happened is right but if that exact conversation up to the final sentence had been passed on to me I would not have been very charitable to the person after being objectified and having those lines tried.
We all do have different boundaries and sometimes you just get blindsided by them and some sensitivity goes a ways on all sides.
Message Edited by Tandava on 10-01-2004 04:11 PM
picklesSW
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:13 pm
#19
""Patron: "Just in case you ever forgot.""
That one's gonna get you in trouble. It implies "In case you forget you're married because I'm so sexy and you're such a s[ut, then we can hook up and do the nasty on the bar".
That's a wild assumption. What he said could be taken a number of ways, especially in a strictly textual system. His statement could just as easily mean, as others have said, "Just in case you ever forget it, you are quite beautiful." There's no way to know unless you ask the guy, which is probably how I would react before slamming him on ignore without another word.
That one's gonna get you in trouble. It implies "In case you forget you're married because I'm so sexy and you're such a s[ut, then we can hook up and do the nasty on the bar".
That's a wild assumption. What he said could be taken a number of ways, especially in a strictly textual system. His statement could just as easily mean, as others have said, "Just in case you ever forget it, you are quite beautiful." There's no way to know unless you ask the guy, which is probably how I would react before slamming him on ignore without another word.
Aleyo
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:21 pm
#20
I don't know why, but my mind's racing and not focusing very well right now, so forgive me if my response isn't quite comprehensive.
I intentionally didn't pass judgement on either the dancer or the poster in this case, as the point I wanted to make wasn't directly involved in whether either of them was acting badly, but rather in analyzing what one of the statements might have meant. I strongly dislike the harrassment I witness and hear about in this game, and don't support it in any way.
While it's true that this person did not know the dancer, and thus couldn't truly love her or have affection for her, that doesn't mean that there couldn't be expressions of love or affection.
It seems every other day I see some people come into the cantina and express their undying love for people they met when they came in the door. Maybe it's their weak attempt at roleplaying, maybe they get a kick out of it. Now, I'm not saying that it's right to act this way to a person, but I do think the game environment makes it more likely to happen than for some guy off the street to come up to you and profess his love. I also think it's probably less clear to people that this is unacceptable behavior. I guess my point is that I wouldn't think this is an impossibility given what parts of the conversation I've read.
I don't think that saying that this might be a possibility is in any way giving leeway to the person who said it. All I'm doing is putting forth an interpretation of what he might have meant, which is different than what everyone else seems to have assumed. To me, the assumption made doesn't make sense to me, semantically. If it was the case of forgetting you're married, that's completely sleazy, and while I'm of the 'turn the other cheek' type (yes, that means I get trampled on in life), I don't blame the dancer for her response. If it was the 'in case you forget you're pretty,' then I think it's probably inappropriate, but not horribly sleazy. My judgement on the dancer doesn't change, because I would imagine she didn't interpret it that way.
Ugh, I want to double my disclaimer. For some reason I can't express myself very well right now. Apologies.
I intentionally didn't pass judgement on either the dancer or the poster in this case, as the point I wanted to make wasn't directly involved in whether either of them was acting badly, but rather in analyzing what one of the statements might have meant. I strongly dislike the harrassment I witness and hear about in this game, and don't support it in any way.
While it's true that this person did not know the dancer, and thus couldn't truly love her or have affection for her, that doesn't mean that there couldn't be expressions of love or affection.
It seems every other day I see some people come into the cantina and express their undying love for people they met when they came in the door. Maybe it's their weak attempt at roleplaying, maybe they get a kick out of it. Now, I'm not saying that it's right to act this way to a person, but I do think the game environment makes it more likely to happen than for some guy off the street to come up to you and profess his love. I also think it's probably less clear to people that this is unacceptable behavior. I guess my point is that I wouldn't think this is an impossibility given what parts of the conversation I've read.
I don't think that saying that this might be a possibility is in any way giving leeway to the person who said it. All I'm doing is putting forth an interpretation of what he might have meant, which is different than what everyone else seems to have assumed. To me, the assumption made doesn't make sense to me, semantically. If it was the case of forgetting you're married, that's completely sleazy, and while I'm of the 'turn the other cheek' type (yes, that means I get trampled on in life), I don't blame the dancer for her response. If it was the 'in case you forget you're pretty,' then I think it's probably inappropriate, but not horribly sleazy. My judgement on the dancer doesn't change, because I would imagine she didn't interpret it that way.
Ugh, I want to double my disclaimer. For some reason I can't express myself very well right now. Apologies.
Tandava
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:22 pm
#21
The reason why pretty doesn't work grammatically is because a statement is supposed to refer to the directly previous sentence's object. The previous statement hers, was about marriage, not two back on pretty.
Now that doesn't mean things weren't typing so fast they didn't fly past each other but then the original poster who presented the conversation exactly in a manner he thought would prove his argument probably would have stated that.
The fact that he didn't and presented things as they were leads me to at least be more sympathetic towards the dancer's reaction.Extreme and rude as it was, it does come across to someone who has been harassed and flirted up and objectified as one more for the pile from a licentious stranger crossing his bounds.
Also I think you presented yourself very charitably and respectfully Aleyo. And that you have a very nice way to view it like that. It could be one way it could be another, it could be a third way but understanding how things could be misconstrued and why for the original poster I think was more the intent of some of us who can see why someone might have been rude for that conversation, as unfortunate as it might be.
Message Edited by Tandava on 10-01-2004 04:28 PM
picklesSW
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:29 pm
#22
Grammar doesn't matter, the intent is what matters, and we're talking about a second hand conversation at this point anyway. If she read it the way you are suggesting, then she had every reason to be pissed. And if he meant it the way I'm suggesting, he too has every reason to be pissed at being treated rudely after delivering a compliment.
This is the problem with a text based medium.
This is the problem with a text based medium.
Drygo
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:33 pm
#23
In a world where half of the populace uses sentence structure like this, "I M Ub3r !337!!!" I don't think you can come to any assumption about what someone met. I've even seen it on these boards. The dancer boards have a high population of what I'd consider eloquent writers. But, we still mess it up. We still misinterpret other people's motives, ideas, and speech on a DAILY basis. I agree with Javier in that it is a *wild* assumption to think that the original poster was being sleazy and calling the dancer in question a s!ut, absolutely wild, IMO.
I do find it interesting, however, as Tandava pointed out that the majority of male posters tended to think the dancer's reaction was an overreaction, and the majority of females thought the original poster's words were wildly inappropriate. I'm not sure what that means, exactly. I don't personally know the experience of having unwarranted sexual harassment. The only thing that really comes close for most male dancers is homophobia expressed by the populace. But, even when someone says something that I initially interpret as homophobia, I almost always ask for clarification before I get down to ripping them a new a-hole. The only time I don't is when someone comes right out and says something with the word "f@g" in it.
I just don't like the idea of assumptions and attack without clarification, I never have.
Tandava
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:33 pm
#24
Agreed. I just don't understand why they bring it here to prove some point against dancers as a whole.
picklesSW
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:38 pm
#25
Tandava wrote:Agreed. I just don't understand why they bring it here to prove some point against dancers as a whole.
It's called 'venting'.
I doubt he honestly thinks all dancers are worthless as he says.
Dreamland
Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:20 am
#26
I'd call it good old fashioned generalization. It's been biting dancers on the rear for a long time.
If one dancer is afk and or rude to me, then all dancers are that way ergo i am justified in never tipping those rude sob's again.
Were all people, theres rude ones, theres nice ones, theres downright insane ones. And theres a little bit of each in every profession. I don't think every combat only player is a rude jerk cause of the ones i've met that are. So why asume all dancers are.
I do think somefemaleplayers can get a bit too defensive, once you've been propositioned a few times its easy to get a bit gunshy and start looking for the come on in everything people say to you.