Dancer Archive
Thread: can you make it just as an entertainer?
rayill
Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:41 am
#14
LyteFoot wrote:
I will, if lucky, make as much spending an entire evening in Theed cantina as I will make on one or at most two janta missions. So for 4 to 5 hours of work I make what I can make in 30 minutes (including buff and travel time) with a combat skill.
The above is why my new response to buff requests (which I'm adamently refusing to do these days - but always refer them to a live buffer if I know one is nearby) is the following:
"I'm sorry, but in the four to five minutes it would take me to buff you, I could easily go out with my combat skills and make X amount of money in that same period of time. So, unless you can offer me equal or better compensation for my time, which is quite valuable to me, I'll be taking my four to five minutes out to the combat field."
This is mainly due to the fact that Kett is getting run over by little powergamers that want their buffs for their immediate gratification of easy cash and PvP pwntage. Why should I penalize my income to help them out when they are not going to pay me in a comprable fashion for my time?
Now, on a good night with my Master Musician, I can gain over 400K in about 30 minutes, but these nights are far and few between.
I would not recommend that anyone use my flippant response to anyone unless they are looking to get flamed. I'm about 99.99999% sure that the response would be met with ire and derision by the majority of the playerbase. It would still be fun to say to them though! 
Panthu
Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:44 pm
#15
I stay poor. 
It's worth mentioning though, I never get filthy rich even if I do have combat in my template. I do pick up money consistently with combat though. If I had some kind of seamless way to make money as an Ent from the system while I go about my normal activities (like I do when I'm doing combat), I'm sure I would make a lot more since all of my normal activities are Ent related. 
I'm a terrible crafter, I just make things for myself, friends, and anyone who asks me. I've never managed to have a real store.
I've made the bulk of my money on all servers in tips and gifts. The only thing that bothers me about this is that most of this ends up coming from my established patron base, it's not like I'm making a huge sum of money off of first time encounters on a regular basis... this is including pre-holo days when people still tipped well for just BF healing.
Point being... I'm mostly just making money because people like me and want to take care of me. I'd much rather that my skill investment be the method of my payment directly, either through a service provided that warrants a payment every time or through a game system payout that I could control myself based on my skill level and group type (a real Destroy Mission equivalent for Ents).
I think we have to have the same earning potential as Combatants and Crafters or we will never be able to have a solid role in the game world.
Drygo
Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:13 pm
#16
Well, I think that as a novice entertainer, not really. I mean, you'll have a few people tip you here andthere, especially if you wear skimpy clothing and are really good at the social interaction thing. Of course, when I first started, I barely made enough money to pay for training. And, this was back when people actually tipped those who trained them. So, while I didn't really have to spend money on NPC training, I always tipped those who trained me a lesser amount...which was basically all I had. And, then I would spend whatever extra money I had trying to get a few new pieces of clothing. It was very difficult. If it says anything, I even did entertainer missions to try to get some money. Very time consuming for very little reward, but I scraped by...barely.
Even now, if I were to only rely on tips and buffing, I could probably have afforded a medium house, some furniture, maintenance, and clothes. But, nothing else at all. I mean, I didn't even have a swoop bike or a house until I joined a guild, which gave it to me for free. And, I got this stuff not for entertaining, but because people wanted more members for their city and guild.
Then, I took up TKM and I have a few million credits because of it. I wouldn't have nearly the credits or things that I have now if I was a pure entertainer. No way, no how. You can survive, technically. Because you don't really need anything. Not like we have to buy food or we have to have a house or we have to have transportation. You could spend all your time in your noob clothes in Mos Eisley and never go anywhere and still play, but you wouldn't have anything.
The one entertainer profession that is different, I would say is Image Design. Ever since the stat migration change, it's become very easy for an image designer to make boat loads of money. Within a week after I hit novice ID on C'erulean, I had already made 500K. And, I wasn't price gouging. I actually charged a very small amount for stat migrations compared to most. But, I made an insane amount of money considering how little I played by doing ID.
Musician and dancer, however...completely different story.
Shyloche
Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:21 am
#17
Both my dancer and my musician have an up and coming combat template, and I can't say that I don't bring in a little money with combat, but the majority of my income comes from entertainment. My musician received an 800k tip one night 7 months ago and I split that in half with my alt on that server. My alt brings in no money and is just sort of....wasting my time I think lol. I've since earned another 300k with my musician, mostly through entertainment. Also I have a fully furnished cantina and wardrobe.
My dancer supliments not only her own needs and desires through dancing, but also the needs and desires of her pure combat alt who brings in almost nothing, comparatively. The combat alt spends a lot on buffs and cloning. But the dancer still makes a lot more and pays for the rifleman quite a bit, and still maintains a profit increase. And htat is all entertainment baby. The key, I think for both of my entertainers is group buffing. Both do 100k group buffs for 10 or more people, 50k buffs for 9 or less. Also with stringent rules. Now the musician has very little needs, financially, mostly because I don't spend as much time there, so I don't do the buffs there that often. But my dancer does it quite often and stays above the 200k mark. She and the riflewoman spend a LOT. The point I'm getting at is as long as you can blow what you want, and not see a decrease in your wallet, you're good to go. (neither one will ever spend more than a 100k on anything. Nothing in the game is worth 2 million or some stupid amount of credits for that extra 5 percent heal, or that 2 percent resistance, or those extra 4 minimum damage. Thats my take. So my needs aren't as high, even with my combat characters. Oh, and usually fight sans armor, so that keeps my cost down.
Kyree-Sunrunner
Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:46 am
#18
Sunjammer wrote:
Those of you who do make a living it at it, where does the income come from? Selling buffs, healing BF, just performing...and where do you go to do it?
J.
Umiio "Umi" Panwanga • Rodian party girl • Bria
Iba'onchab • Gets boarded sometimes • Chimaera
This random sig quote is brought to you by Brian Daley:
"A good punchline is itself a victory over those who would destroy you."
Two million of my savings was made by dancing, hiring out to dance for hunting groups,occasionally selling buffs, and generous people who've had ID work done BEFORE the big ID patch.
One million of my savings was made by doing stat migrations after the big ID patch, by using a tip only system. Unfortunately, we had an influx of cheapskates and I had to finally set a fee for migrations.
Most of my work's been done in Theed.
Shivash
Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:58 am
#19
Cry4Dawn wrote:I know many NON AFK dancers who cant make a living dancing on Bria.. No one pays dancers anymore for there work. God I think I have even given up paying them because most are AFK. I have a master dancer/musican and thought she has made money in the past I would NOT call it a great living by any means. Most people would rather spit on you then pay you for your services.
Not at all, have to STRONGLY disagreee with this. Bria has some of the best LIVE entertainment on any server and I know plenty of people who make sufficient funds from live entertainment. Either from Buffing, putting on a show or healing. Not just females too, I know a couple of men who have made enough cash too.
CloverRidge
Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:58 am
#20
Like others have said I think it depends on what you want and how fast and furious you want the cash to come in to your bank.
My income is not bad but my expenditures are very low. No new armor to buy....no weapons....the only thing I have to worry about is having Accarragm on him. More than enough money to buy clothes for him...a house....money to decorate it.
I have fun for the most part in the cantina though so it's kinda like a bonus to me building up his bank while hanging with friends.
I can make money fast with my Master Rifleman/Doc if I want but solo running mission after mission just doesn't hold much interest for me anymore and I don't buff for cash with him either. Wayyyyy too boring to sit and do that for me.
The difference between the two for me is I can have fun with my both characters but typically make more cash with my entertainer having fun than my combat toon. I used to run the corvette solo alot with my Doc which can eat your armor up fairly quickly a definite cost and doesn't necessarily bring in anything in return. But I was able to give 5 powerplants away to friends and get them badges. That's the difference too for me is I'd rather give my drops away than sell them.
Ytoavee Oases
Corbantis
Message Edited by CloverRidge on 10-21-2004 06:59 AM
Selandria
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:56 am
#21
I thinkthis also partly depends on the server you play on. The environment for entertainers is different on each. On Eclipse, I do pretty well; on Bria I am beyond poor (but I also haven't spent a lot of time on Bria admittedly -- i made my Bria character mainly for the Cantina Crawls).As others have said, expenses are low for entertainers which does help. The bulk of what I make comes from buffing people. (And I am a live performer-- never have and never will run a buffbot macro.) On Bria, I picked up Novice Image Designer to make some money doing stat migrations, as I couldn't buff a soul to save my lifethere due to the buffbots. I have gotten a couple nice tips from people on Bria, though. Bria has a good entertainer population, and there ARE people who appreciate live entertainers there. Just as there are on Eclipse. I do regularly get tipped for healing on Eclipse, but it's never much to write home about. To really make money as an entertainer on Eclipse, you have to buff.
My guild on Eclipse has also done shows and such, and people usually offer agood amount for a group to come and do a show at their town or mall or whatever the case may be. I also have had groups doing things like the Death Watch Bunker ask me to come to Endor to buff them. Those usually pay very, verywell --but that's buffing again...
Anyway, my feeling is if you work it, you can make money. (And by work it I don't mean cybering or any of that nonsense.) Will you make as much per hour as some elite combatant running Janta missions -- no, not even close. But will you have more fun? I think I do. Combat doesn't interest me in the least, much less soloing the same stupid mission over and over. I'd much rather chat with people while buffing in a cantina, personally...
CloverRidge
Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:03 am
#22
Will you make as much per hour as some elite combatant running Janta missions -- no, not even close. But will you have more fun? I think I do. Combat doesn't interest me in the least, much less soloing the same stupid mission over and over. I'd much rather chat with people while buffing in a cantina, personally...
Preach it sister....it's all about the fun
Ytoavee Oases
Corbantis
Message Edited by CloverRidge on 10-21-2004 10:03 AM
LAB
Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:43 am
#23
Howdy
well if you are entertaining to make credits , maybe you should join a guild . they seem to be like haveing a recording/dancing contract they will equip you . but if you entertain for the love of dancing then credits shouldn't matter . I dance becouse thats what i do , i find that when i go on combat missions all i do is chat anyways lol . First you must decide what you want out of this game , if it is all the exspensive drop items then you either have to make a boat load of credits or take up combat skills .or fishing , man i make a ton fishing and it is soo calming . entertaining should be about the social interaction .. the afk grinders do ruin the atmosphere of the club , just find anouther club , they need live members to keep inviting other afk grinders . i find the cantinas on radiant cycle through the afk grinders keep moving around so get in with live performers and they will tell you what clubs are full of live ents . we make allot more credits when the whole band is live . i also find that when i get a tip i share it with any medics or novice ents in the group , this keeps them around and the band playing longer . i share with the novice ents couse we all know that people will watch a master dancer before novice ent to heal bf , anywho i think i slipped of toppic and onto a soap box sorry
i hope you stick with entertaining .. git a gort lol the ladies love george
have fun
LAB
Xyrdre
Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:32 pm
#24
I honestly don't know anymore if an entertainer can really survive in this game on entertainment income alone.
Let's quantify "survive". It's not like we're going to starve to death, or die of a winter chill without a house and heating bills. By survive, I mean it in the truest gaming sense... can we get the things that we want, that will make things fun for our gameplay? I honestly don't think so... not in 99.99% of the cases, unless all you're after is a simple subsistence of small or medium house and some clothes to call your own. You won't likely get to see many of the other trappings of any measure of success without a huge bankroll, and one not really accessible as an entertainer these days.
When I started out, I did really, really well for myself. I made my first million in the bank (after expenses and such) within about 6 weeks... and it was pretty much all off of straight tips. No buffing. Buffing really didn't add much tomy income levels back then... I was frequently getting higher tips for just being good company during that BF healing downtime than what I could reasonably charge for buffs. I made a couple of those nice 25-50k tips for being ATK, but most of that money came in from people who just stopped by to lose the BF, and wound up staying awhile to hang out with good company.
Oh, and that's without skimpy clothing. Those who know me know it's all elegance, all the way.My observations have been that in the long run, class pays off a lot further than trash.
But... those were different days too. And I've seen the changes. Yes, the holos were out back then, and the AFK was heavy, but it was before the buffbots. But I think I caught a time before the rest of the playerbase came to see entertainers as useless - at the time, there was still a significant enough percentage of the populace that made the distinction that AFK 'entertainers' were the cheap and useless ones, and that the ATK entertainers who worked hard still had immense value for what we did - not just for our game mechanics, but for our interpersonal connections, and added gameplay immersion factors. Things that seem to be largely lost now.
Since that time, I've added millions to my bank that have come and gone, but I've done it with a weapon. I don't even count tips anymore... and I haven't for a long time. I thank each and every customer for each and every tip, even the 50 credit ones, but I don't know how much I make from entertaining any more, as it really is insignificant in the grand scope of the game economy.
I think that for a long time now, the concept of tipping as a way to show appreciation has been lost. How many of the so-called 'combat players' see any entertainer now, and just assume that they're either an alt for someone's real character, a combat character (with just as much opportunity to go run missions for millions as they), or just assume that we all must just have combat skills to survive in this game? How many see entertainers as nothing more than Jedi grinders... whether it was for holocron commands, or now for FS XP conversions? How many simply assume that if we're there to talk to them, that they just happened to catch us while we were ATK for a minute or two? And how many more of them somehow think that the only reason we're there at all is to serve them, to dish out buffs and healing for their game experience, and never even gave a thought that there might be another player there in SWG who has their own goals and dreams? With what our environment has been allowed to become, is there any wonder why players havestopped seeing the need or desireto tip us?
It's funny - before, when there was something I wanted to buy, I wouldn't take combat missions... I used to run out to dance. And not to buff, either... I could always make a lot more money when I wasn't worrying about buffing. But I know I was in the vast minority even back then... most entertainers could dance all night and barely make enough for a return shuttle ticket. Maybe I was just doing something right.
But that was a long time ago,in a galaxy far, far away.
Beery
Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:21 pm
#25
I have over 25 badges, 100,000+ credits in the bank, a well-furnished medium-sized house with 6 months rent paid in advance, a nice business selling buffs and instruments. I have 5 droids and two vehicles. I'm doing pretty well, considering I've never made any money other than by entertaining, and I've never killed anything or anyone either.
My signature says it all...
Message Edited by Beery on 10-22-2004 02:22 AM
Beery
Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:53 am
#26
But the difference is only money. In the end, if you're happy and you have everything you want, it doesn't matter if your bank account has 200 million credits in it or only 200. For me, having a massive bank account through killing bunches of creatures was just not as fulfilling as making money through actual human interaction. That's why I retired my pistoleer character and started my pacifist character. Plus, being a pacifist is more of a challenge - avoiding conflict is much more difficult than the alternative in this game.