Dancer Archive
Thread: Can someone kill me please ?
Coreena
Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:42 am
#14
I've long stopped caring to much about bots. At least about the business they steal from us.
The thing I care about is the lack of respect some of the combat players have towards our profession, and I mainly blame the bots for that, and partly the combat doods.
I'm usually hanging out in the Mos Eisley cantina which is a long way of the road for the usual l337 idiots to bother and come there - its not exactly on the way from Coronet Doc-buff-lines to the Quenker or Rancor lairs - so most people there are actually quite nice and a great percentage are roleplayers.
Well granted I don't really sell many buffs, perhaps 2 per week or so, but thats not why I play this game. I play to have fun, and I have a lot of fun dancing and making music.
If the people in Coronet would ignore me (I'm never really there, so its more hypothetical)... oh well... I just go on and tell myself then "People who go to the Coronet cantina for buffs, are the same people I would usually /addignore and /deny if they came to me in Eisley, so nothing lost"
The thing I care about is the lack of respect some of the combat players have towards our profession, and I mainly blame the bots for that, and partly the combat doods.
I'm usually hanging out in the Mos Eisley cantina which is a long way of the road for the usual l337 idiots to bother and come there - its not exactly on the way from Coronet Doc-buff-lines to the Quenker or Rancor lairs - so most people there are actually quite nice and a great percentage are roleplayers.
Well granted I don't really sell many buffs, perhaps 2 per week or so, but thats not why I play this game. I play to have fun, and I have a lot of fun dancing and making music.
If the people in Coronet would ignore me (I'm never really there, so its more hypothetical)... oh well... I just go on and tell myself then "People who go to the Coronet cantina for buffs, are the same people I would usually /addignore and /deny if they came to me in Eisley, so nothing lost"
LyteFoot
Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:43 am
#15
I'm sorry it happened but you have to realize you aren't competing with buffbots you are competing with habits. MO is worse for spam than coronet cantina, at least on corbantis. Most combatants don't even try to deal with spatial they see their known source and go through the motions. They will select them then send tells to people in the group. They ignore everything else because you have to at MO.
I've had the same thing happen but I go about it differently. I simply play and perform. If the lines get full someone will eventually ask for an invite to Elwyn at which time I take the opportunity to talk with them, advise them I'm the group lead, and ask if they would like a buff. If they respond so be it, if the live ent scares them off so be it.
People are more comfortable doing the same thing repeatedly and so the buffbot is easier. The damage won't be repaired until it is forced on them by system changes. I simply quit worrying about it and play my game my way. If or when SOE stops unattended play we will have an opportunity to compete, until then its like a mom and pop hamburger joint trying to compete directly with McDonalds. I'm not ready to be a McDonalds with everything cookie cutter and staffed all the time so I just do my thing and take what comes my way.
I've had the same thing happen but I go about it differently. I simply play and perform. If the lines get full someone will eventually ask for an invite to Elwyn at which time I take the opportunity to talk with them, advise them I'm the group lead, and ask if they would like a buff. If they respond so be it, if the live ent scares them off so be it.
People are more comfortable doing the same thing repeatedly and so the buffbot is easier. The damage won't be repaired until it is forced on them by system changes. I simply quit worrying about it and play my game my way. If or when SOE stops unattended play we will have an opportunity to compete, until then its like a mom and pop hamburger joint trying to compete directly with McDonalds. I'm not ready to be a McDonalds with everything cookie cutter and staffed all the time so I just do my thing and take what comes my way.
Ikewe
Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:06 am
#16
LyteFoot wrote:
I'm sorry it happened but you have to realize you aren't competing with buffbots you are competing with habits. MO is worse for spam than coronet cantina, at least on corbantis. Most combatants don't even try to deal with spatial they see their known source and go through the motions. They will select them then send tells to people in the group. They ignore everything else because you have to at MO.
This is exactly what I have been warning about when people ask about SEA's. Providing a higher power buff isn't going to make any difference. As soon as the combat player finds that the mind buff dispensor is in the same location at the same time every day, then they'll just go to that location. It happens if there's tons of spam, it happens it it's dead quiet. It's not that we can't compete with the power of the buff provided. It's not that we can't compete with the ease with which the buff is dispensed. It's not that we'll demand interaction from someone not looking for "chit chat" or flirting. It's that we aren't always in the same spot 23/7. No other profession is expected to do that except for entertainers (although doctors are fast going that way too). No matter what anyone says we are indeed the slaves of SWG.
Ikewe, Shadowfire
LyteFoot
Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:56 pm
#17
Actually every other support profession has a vendor to do this very thing. Doctors and Entertainers are the only ones who can't offer their services from a game provided automated despenser. Perhaps I should give up and support selling holodisks, it seems the only way to free ourselves from this attitude.
Ikewe wrote:
It's that we aren't always in the same spot 23/7. No other profession is expected to do that except for entertainers (although doctors are fast going that way too). No matter what anyone says we are indeed the slaves of SWG.
Ikewe, Shadowfire
Devil_Tiger
Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:24 am
#18
I am no longer a slave to the public. While dancing in Theed over the weekend, a few of the powergamers came in looking for heals and found only a few entertainers. For some odd reason they came over to watch me and then began to talk about me in thrid person. When I told them that I was not a bot or an AFK grinder, they ignored me and continued to talk and act like I didn't exist. So, in response to that, I denied service to them. Took a few seconds for them to realize that they were denied healing and began asking each other why. When I tried to explain to them how rude it was to insult and treat entertainers as third class citizens, guess what? They continued to ignore me. They left and said something about looking for a bot to get heals from.
The moral of the story is I am no longer going to entertain as part of a group or for healing to the public as their slave. When people I don't know or are not my friends come to watch/listen for heals, I'm going to deny services to them. I don't care if they get mad about it or not. If my time and effort is worth nothing, then that's what they will receive. Absolutely nothing. They can send hate tells and e-mails all they want, I don't care anymore. I still have /addignore and it will get more use now than ever.
I will never drop entertainer but I refuse to be a slave to the masses because of it.
Message Edited by Devil_Tiger on 03-14-2005 03:12 PM
Skye_Blue
Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:33 am
#19
((((hugs)))) I feel your pain. Maybe you shouldn't quick, but rather find a better atmosphere I'm sure your server has more remote places that have rp'rs to hang out with or even just a better cantina.
Skye_Blue
Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:34 am
#20
((((hugs)))) I feel your pain. Maybe you shouldn't quick, but rather find a better atmosphere I'm sure your server has more remote places that have rp'rs to hang out with or even just a better cantina.
Caerwynn
Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:04 am
#21
HudsonD wrote:
I've been playing SWG for a bit more than a year now, and my main (on Chimeara)was an entertainer - and later a dancer - from the start.
Despite the odds, despite the increasing lack of respect, I've always had hope. Always. I rejoiced a lot about the very recent "upgrades" which are truely welcome. My spirit has never faltered !
Until this evening.
To cut a long story short, despite being a live entertainer, I've managed to get a +25 mind enhancement for my character... As powerful as any buffbots can be. Since I don't even care about money anymore (I'm just looking for two little things called "respect" and "recognition") I thought that offering my services for free in a crowded cantina would be a nice blow to these ******** buffbots... I was wrong.
After one hour next to two buffbots, I wasn't offering my services for free... I was offering to *pay* people to get buffed.
In 2 hours and a half at a crowded place, I buffed 6 people, and as many as 10 persons acknowledged my presence.
...
After 2 hours, it was getting so desesperate that I started slapping people in the cantina... Even getting insulted or /ignored would have felt good. *No one* responded.
They all walked straight to the buffbots, totally oblivious to the rest.
The poor dancer was ready to walk to the Emperor's retreat and shout "I'm a rebel jedi !", just to end the supplice.
That's it. That's the final insult. The last measure of hope I had has dissapeared now. As far as I'm concerned, we entertainers are dead, some are just too stubborn to accept it, that's all. Serving the community is all we have (had), but the community doesn't want us.
I might come back later when/if some things move, but right now, I'm just finishing the business I have before leaving. Enough is enough !
Tell me when are you are on next, I can now respond better than last night. I'm assuming you were in Coro or Dant MO? Two places I avoid because those who regularly use those bots are not people who want to communicate with ATK performers, they just want to get buffed as fast as possible to get on with the grind.
It is their loss if they are notenjoyingall the aspects of the gamenot yours, you shouldn't be forced out of something you have loved doing for so long.
Because of our different time zones, it may not be before the weekend that we can actually meet up as I usually log around 11pm GMT.
HudsonD
Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:53 am
#22
Well, yes I was at the MO and Coronet, and yes it was a painful disaster...
However, even recently, I remember having good fun at Coronet ! Just after a down that is, when the bots haven't logged in yet. I remember being the only ATK there, and successfully buffing, healing *and* entertaining the *whole* cantina.
So much for the claim that live entertainers can't do the job, when a lone dancer could handle the whole coronet cantina alone for more than 2 hours.... But of course, the fun stopped at the second a bot was operational, and people started running straight by me. *sigh*
Of course, from time to time, someone would notice that the dancer greeting and talking to them was actually ATK, and ask me for a buff, but for one that did so and raise my hopes, ten would go for the bot, each of them a painful stab.
A few people have advised me to leave the place, but where else can I go ? Theed ? The small RP community ? That'd be worse ! Sure, there are live ent' communities there, but isn't that exactly what our opponents want us to do ? Theed is officialy the live ent' haven on Chimeara (and on most servers too it seems), with no bots and easier access from the starport compared to coronet, but how many people actualy go there to get entertainers service ? Buffs ? And do you really think it's just a coincidence or a lack of information ? I don't think so...
We are the only class that exist only through our interactions with others. Does a fighter have trouble existing alone ? Sure not. Can a crafter do his business alone ? Yup, that's what vendors are for. Can entertainers exist without the other players ? Hell no ! The more isolated and hidden we get, the worse the situation will get for us, as more and more regular players forget we even exist. If we're not mainstream, we're as good as dead, and that's what we are today, dead !
As far as I'm concerned, the war's over, and we've *lost*. Call me a cynic or just bitter, but as much as I can't help to admire the one that still have the faith, that's just rear guard action.
When things change, *if* things change, I might come back. But right, it's not fun anymore for me.
However, even recently, I remember having good fun at Coronet ! Just after a down that is, when the bots haven't logged in yet. I remember being the only ATK there, and successfully buffing, healing *and* entertaining the *whole* cantina.
So much for the claim that live entertainers can't do the job, when a lone dancer could handle the whole coronet cantina alone for more than 2 hours.... But of course, the fun stopped at the second a bot was operational, and people started running straight by me. *sigh*
Of course, from time to time, someone would notice that the dancer greeting and talking to them was actually ATK, and ask me for a buff, but for one that did so and raise my hopes, ten would go for the bot, each of them a painful stab.
A few people have advised me to leave the place, but where else can I go ? Theed ? The small RP community ? That'd be worse ! Sure, there are live ent' communities there, but isn't that exactly what our opponents want us to do ? Theed is officialy the live ent' haven on Chimeara (and on most servers too it seems), with no bots and easier access from the starport compared to coronet, but how many people actualy go there to get entertainers service ? Buffs ? And do you really think it's just a coincidence or a lack of information ? I don't think so...
We are the only class that exist only through our interactions with others. Does a fighter have trouble existing alone ? Sure not. Can a crafter do his business alone ? Yup, that's what vendors are for. Can entertainers exist without the other players ? Hell no ! The more isolated and hidden we get, the worse the situation will get for us, as more and more regular players forget we even exist. If we're not mainstream, we're as good as dead, and that's what we are today, dead !
As far as I'm concerned, the war's over, and we've *lost*. Call me a cynic or just bitter, but as much as I can't help to admire the one that still have the faith, that's just rear guard action.
When things change, *if* things change, I might come back. But right, it's not fun anymore for me.
Ikewe
Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:51 pm
#23
LyteFoot wrote:
Actually every other support profession has a vendor to do this very thing. Doctors and Entertainers are the only ones who can't offer their services from a game provided automated despenser. Perhaps I should give up and support selling holodisks, it seems the only way to free ourselves from this attitude.
Ikewe wrote:
It's that we aren't always in the same spot 23/7. No other profession is expected to do that except for entertainers (although doctors are fast going that way too). No matter what anyone says we are indeed the slaves of SWG.
Ikewe, Shadowfire
I'm not so sure I agree. Yes their vendors are always in the same spot but they are not always stocked and many times the person wants a custom order. Their argument is that they aren't shopping for a weapon right before battle and so they aren't rushed. But since I'm not buying the whole "I don't have time to spend 30 minutes checking cantinas..." argument (it's completely idiotic since no one is expecting them to find us that way) then I'm forced to believe that it just boils down to the fact that they want to be able to treat an entire group of people like slaves because it makes them feel superior. "I can't kill that Jedi but I can make this dispensor give me a buff anytime I want and make that entertainer over there feel like crap". It's another reason why I despise the entire "social playstyle" label that we have been given. It implies that we lack the ability to provide the quick mindbuff to those who do not wish to be social.
And now, because we still have automated buff dispensers, we've lost another entertainer who *wanted* to provide healing and buffing. How many more are we going to lose?At what point can we say enough is enough and have the developers take a stand to really support us for a change? Would the Universe really crack open and kill us all if live entertainers had to provide mind buffs? I guess we'll never know because everyone's too afraid to even try it.
Ikewe, Shadowfire
kirah_ashlin
Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:36 pm
#24
El, not for a moment do I believe that they don't know the mechanics of HOW, but rather what eludes them isthe esthetics (for lack of a better word)of HOW. SOE has allowed this corruption to fester for so long that they don't know HOW to get rid of it without finding a pile of bantha poodoo dumped in their financial lap. Bottom line - profit. They can't figure out a way to not lose all the money coming in from those secondary 'bot accounts and still keep the rest of us happily playing the game, too. So - they continue to do nothing. For that I don't blame the devs - I blame the suits.
LyteFoot
Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:47 pm
#25
Seriously Kirah I don't think they know how. They started the whole conversation with "recursive macros will go away" a totally unnecessary step. They've struggled with this forever. You have to remember this is the same team who can't QA a paper bag, has change control so rigid that they fix something then check in the old buggy code and push the bug back out in the next patch, and can't seem to design new quests with more than 3 steps to it unlike the old immersive ones from the game start.
LyteFoot
Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:24 am
#26
I don't think they are going to support us, period. I did at one time but they have had plenty of time to fix this issue. We all know that AFK is destroying a lot more than just entertainer and we know that a lot of people will scream if it goes away. I think SOE is between a rock and a hard place and the current design and management team doesn't have the gray matter or cohones to fix it either way. I've personally outlined how they can do it and it took me a whopping 5 minutes to come up with the idea. Being an architect of distributed, networked applications I know it will work. I can't believe its taken them over a year and they still don't even know HOW they are going to accomplish it.