Dancer Archive
Thread: AFKers annoying? Buffbots got you down? Union of Cantina Workers needs members
Zarchad
Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:32 pm
#14
This is exactly why I try to promote that all professions need to learn what they can about other professions.
Most profs has alot more to it than meet the eye.
FuryoftheStars
Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:30 am
#15
Wow... I actually didn't know that is was possible to get a buff off from someone that was afk. Hmm... amazing what you can learn. Alright, first off, I'd like to say that I always tip the entertainer that healed me, although the amount I tip depends on the following conditions: location, afk status, talkativeness, amount healed, and any extra services rendered that were not asked for.
Location - I have a tendency of tipping more if your in remote locations, such as Lok, Endor, or a player city where you normally don't find many entertainers.
AFK status - I will tip more if your live... whether you talked to me or not, your being live gets more right off the bat. And often (depending on my mood) I will actually goto a live one before an afk entertianer.
Talkativeness - Ok, I am just about officially the world's worst conversationalist. But if you make an effort to talk to me while I'm healing, I'll attempt to do the same and usually that results in a larger tip.
Amount healed - For some reason I have a tendency of throwing a little bit extra into my tip if I needed like say 3 clone trips worth of wounds and BF healed vers less than 100. /shrug
extra services - buffs that I wasn't looking for (I rarely go out to get buffed. If you buff me anyways, I'll give you a good sized tip... but don't abuse that to purposely get more money out of me. If I find out that's what you were doing, I'll never use you for a heal again.
Ok, why did I just say all of that? Cause I really don't feel like being flammed for wanting "free heals" like I did on one anti-afk thread that had gone threw the GCW forums a while back.
Aside from that, I wanted to make it clear that I will pay you whether your at keys or not, and that I'll actually seek out the live entertainers in an area first before I'll goto the AFKers.
Alright, with all of that being said, I do not support Buffbots... end of story. That needs to be fixed so they can't do that. However, as I have done the dancer profession for a short period of time (well, about a month or so) with another character, I know what kind of a boring job it can be... especially if your one of those out in the remote locations. In other words, I have no problems with afk healing. As I said above though, that means you won't get quite as good of a tip.
But, I think that a lot of the afk entertaining problems originated with hologrinding. Of course, with the new revamp to the Jedi system that's coming out, I can see this trend starting to die off (although not completely). In essence, your gonna start having less afk people to compete with.
You know, looking at everything I just wrote, I realize it's sort of a jumbled mess that doesn't quite get my thoughts across very well. Maybe it's cause I need some sleep But I really don't feel like rewriting all of this right now, so I think I'll leave it till after work tomorrow and I'll just respond to any comments that were made to mine or whatever.
I've totally lost the original point of my post... oh yeah, now I remember. Basically I can already see this thread as being an anti-afker one. Like I said earlier, I agree that buffbots are a crime. But the regular afk healing I think is ok... especially out in the remote areas. Maybe not so much in the Coronet/Theed areas, but definitely places like Endor or Lok. I am yet to see anyone performing at the Lok cantina unless they are just healing their hunting group.
Ok... more on this tomorrow depending on what you have to say in response. For now, sleep.
Location - I have a tendency of tipping more if your in remote locations, such as Lok, Endor, or a player city where you normally don't find many entertainers.
AFK status - I will tip more if your live... whether you talked to me or not, your being live gets more right off the bat. And often (depending on my mood) I will actually goto a live one before an afk entertianer.
Talkativeness - Ok, I am just about officially the world's worst conversationalist. But if you make an effort to talk to me while I'm healing, I'll attempt to do the same and usually that results in a larger tip.
Amount healed - For some reason I have a tendency of throwing a little bit extra into my tip if I needed like say 3 clone trips worth of wounds and BF healed vers less than 100. /shrug
extra services - buffs that I wasn't looking for (I rarely go out to get buffed. If you buff me anyways, I'll give you a good sized tip... but don't abuse that to purposely get more money out of me. If I find out that's what you were doing, I'll never use you for a heal again.
Ok, why did I just say all of that? Cause I really don't feel like being flammed for wanting "free heals" like I did on one anti-afk thread that had gone threw the GCW forums a while back.
Aside from that, I wanted to make it clear that I will pay you whether your at keys or not, and that I'll actually seek out the live entertainers in an area first before I'll goto the AFKers.Alright, with all of that being said, I do not support Buffbots... end of story. That needs to be fixed so they can't do that. However, as I have done the dancer profession for a short period of time (well, about a month or so) with another character, I know what kind of a boring job it can be... especially if your one of those out in the remote locations. In other words, I have no problems with afk healing. As I said above though, that means you won't get quite as good of a tip.
But, I think that a lot of the afk entertaining problems originated with hologrinding. Of course, with the new revamp to the Jedi system that's coming out, I can see this trend starting to die off (although not completely). In essence, your gonna start having less afk people to compete with.
You know, looking at everything I just wrote, I realize it's sort of a jumbled mess that doesn't quite get my thoughts across very well. Maybe it's cause I need some sleep
But I really don't feel like rewriting all of this right now, so I think I'll leave it till after work tomorrow and I'll just respond to any comments that were made to mine or whatever.I've totally lost the original point of my post... oh yeah, now I remember. Basically I can already see this thread as being an anti-afker one. Like I said earlier, I agree that buffbots are a crime. But the regular afk healing I think is ok... especially out in the remote areas. Maybe not so much in the Coronet/Theed areas, but definitely places like Endor or Lok. I am yet to see anyone performing at the Lok cantina unless they are just healing their hunting group.
Ok... more on this tomorrow depending on what you have to say in response. For now, sleep.
Beery
Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:16 am
#16
It's good to see that there are still some conscientious players like FuryoftheStars, who haven't allowed the AFKers and tip spammers to put themoff from tipping ATK entertainers, who have respect for their fellow gamers even if their fellow gamers' playstyle doesn't match their own, and who refuse to play the "I, me, mine" game andtake their responsibilities towards the community seriously. Thank you FuryoftheStars - your post is a breath of fresh air that reminds us all of how the game used to be, and how itstill can be if we allwork together and refuse to bicker. I hope to meet you in the game sometime.
Ariven
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:20 am
#18
Beery wrote:It's good to see that there are still some conscientious players like FuryoftheStars, who haven't allowed the AFKers and tip spammers to put them off from tipping ATK entertainers, who have respect for their fellow gamers even if their fellow gamers' playstyle doesn't match their own, and who refuse to play the "I, me, mine" game and take their responsibilities towards the community seriously. Thank you FuryoftheStars - your post is a breath of fresh air that reminds us all of how the game used to be, and how it still can be if we all work together and refuse to bicker. I hope to meet you in the game sometime.
When I am in for healing I make every effort that I can to use live at the keyboard entertainers, especially ones who seem to be novice in their class... so that they can get that healing XP. I tip the entertainer that I watch/listen because they are giving me a service that helps me.. just like I tip the medic in the med center who heals my wounds...
But..
If I walk into the cantina and there is no master musician or master dancer advertising that they are buffing I -will- head straight to that AFK "Buffbot" entertainer for my buff. Why? Because I have been trained to NOT bother asking master musicians or dancers for buffs... several months straight of asking if people are buffing only to be ignored, told they are too busy, told they dont want to do it or told they dont know HOW (heck, -i- know how, and I am a combat class).
Make youself available to buff and I will use your services... I -vastly- prefer live real people there and not a script... but quite honestly brandy and canape get expensive, and I would rather pay a decent fee for a buff to a buffbot than go without...
Or in summary... advertise and I will purchase buffs from you... dont advertise and I wont bother, I will go where there IS advertising...
Akkurscid
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:37 am
#19
I posted in the Muscian Forum on this topicI will post here too...I need my Buff Bot!
There are never enough Entertainers around. I don't have the time to travel all over the galaxy to try to find a suitable level entertainer.
the reason Entertainers are leaving is the Hologrind is over and (I said the same in the Muscian forum) Entertaining is "boring" for most people.This does not mean you,it actually means exactly what it says formost people.
Solution: get rid of Stacked Defenses so people aren't cramed into narrow Muti-Combat Profession templates, this will free up skill points. Many of which will be spent on entertaining. So those who like to "part time" entertain (I had entertainer for sometime) aren't so far behind the Muti-Combat Profession templates.
atimes
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:10 am
#20
Beery I would just like to say "thank you" for lowering my respect for dancers. 
Why in the world did you feel the need to do what you did? It was pointless, unconstructive and simply uncalled for. Tell me why did you feel the need to bring your arguement to the BH forums?
We get enough of pointless drama from those forums already without some ticked off dancer starting more.
A guy asked questions and you "answered" them then felt the need for some odd reason to start a pointless thread.
I already had plenty of respect for entertainers, dancers and musicians. You made a stupid assumption about combat toons and followed it up with a stupid reaction and all you accomplihshed was annoyance. You haven't made me passionate about the plight of the entertainer, you just ticked me off.
Message Edited by atimes on 06-22-2004 12:11 PM
picklesSW
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:15 am
#21
Not to support or defend what Beery did, but...
If my opinion of bounty hunters was lowered every time one of them came over here and started spouting off, the name of 'Bounty Hunter' would be synonymous with "frog slime" right about now. But you know what? I don't hold a grudge against an entire profession because of the words of one or two people who just happen to play that profession.
If my opinion of bounty hunters was lowered every time one of them came over here and started spouting off, the name of 'Bounty Hunter' would be synonymous with "frog slime" right about now. But you know what? I don't hold a grudge against an entire profession because of the words of one or two people who just happen to play that profession.
Beery
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:18 am
#22
"I posted in the Muscian Forum on this topicI will post here too...I need my Buff Bot!
There are never enough Entertainers around. I don't have the time to travel all over the galaxy to try to find a suitable level entertainer."
I agree. But the reason that's true is that entertainer issues have been basicallyignored since day 1 - and we have always hadsome serious problems. Entertainers have tried to play the game, but it's always been difficult to play the gameas an entertainer: we just don't have the flexibility of other professions and new players trying to play an entertainer are quickly demoralised by the fact that there's no money in it - never has been. So there have never been enoughentertainers to populate the servers to the extent that the game designersoriginally intended. This was true before the hologrind, and before buffbots made their first appearance. The situation has become steadily worse, with a major setback in August last year when mission terminals were nerfed, and now with buffbots it is completely impossible toadvance inthe game as an entertainer. Some stubbornentertainers are still in the cantinas, alongside the AFKers and the buffbots, but they are almost an extinct breed. Entertainers aren't leaving because, as you say,the hologrind is over. Hologrinders aren't entertainers. They are bots. Real entertainers are leaving the profession at a regular rate, and have been since last September. The reasons are a widely held perception (I reckon it's a clearly observablefact)that there'salack of respect for the profession on the part of the community and on the part ofthe developers, and a profession which is broken so badly that it is just no fun to play, evenfor those of us who are drawn to non-combat professions.
"...Entertaining is "boring" for most people.This does not mean you,it actually means exactly what it says formost people."
I agree, but no profession is interesting for 'most people'. If any of them were, it would be a major game imbalance. You are simply stating a truism that applies to any profession. It doesn't prove anything about why no one wants to beentertainers these days (and many wanted to be in the past - I remember a time when all the game's cantinas had entertainers - real live ATK players -working in them. So there must be people who want to beentertainers. Why aren't we asking why these pro-entertainment players left the class? Why aren't we asking why theentertainer class is so incrediblyuninviting, even to those who would like to play as entertainers? After all, the idea of being an entertainer is no more boring on the face of itthan the idea of being a droid engineer or a tailor, and entertainers have one major advantage in that they play a relativelylarge role in the star wars movies (at least compared to tailors and droid engineers, who don't show up in the moviesat all). Entertainer could be more interesting as a profession. It doesn't have to be boring for most people. The reasons it is sounattractive are: 1 there's no money in it; 2 the tip system invites contempt; 3 there's too little content; 4 many features don't work; 5 macros are poorly implemented and open to abuse;6 there are no game-advantageousrewards for becoming better at it. That's just off the top of my head. Entertainers could be so much more than they are, if only we had our place in line in terms of seriousdeveloper attention. I don't care if it's last place in line. But right now we're not even on the list.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-22-2004 12:26 PM
atimes
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:31 am
#23
picklesSW wrote:
Not to support or defend what Beery did, but...
If my opinion of bounty hunters was lowered every time one of them came over here and started spouting off, the name of 'Bounty Hunter' would be synonymous with "frog slime" right about now. But you know what? I don't hold a grudge against an entire profession because of the words of one or two people who just happen to play that profession.
Point taken but it was just so pointless to do. What in the world didthis accomplish except MORE trolling on both our forums?
You've now got BH's and dancers flaming back and forth however before this issue snowballed you had only 2 posters responding to this thread with the occasional odd man out. Now you've got BH's, disgruntled dancers and the guy beery was initially flaming posting here and you've now got dancers trolling the BH forums.
What good did this do?
We've got enough on our plates withtrolling Jedi, other whiney BH's, whining pistoleers andwhining carbineers. Now we can add trolling dancers to our list as well. Oh joy!!!
Don't be part of the problem. Beery mentioned that they were going to post this in "other" combat professions. Why then did beery only post this junk in the BH forums? Last I checked there were other combat professions besides Bounty Hunters.
If you ask me Beery intentionally posted this in the one place he/she/whatever thought it would tick the most people off.
Don't be like the "Jedi" please.
Besides most Bounty Hunters are probably just jealous because Dancers have more meleedefense than Bounty Hunters (no I'm not joking)
Message Edited by atimes on 06-22-2004 12:38 PM
picklesSW
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:36 am
#24
Like I said, I'm not defending Beery's actions. All I'm saying is don't go hatin on dancers or any other professions because of the actions of a few. We have enough cross profession hatred going on already when we should all be trying to support one another.
Akkurscid
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:45 am
#25
Beery wrote:
"I posted in the Muscian Forum on this topicI will post here too...I need my Buff Bot!
There are never enough Entertainers around. I don't have the time to travel all over the galaxy to try to find a suitable level entertainer."
I agree. But the reason that's true is that entertainer issues have been basicallyignored since day 1 - and we have always hadsome serious problems. Entertainers have tried to play the game, but it's always been difficult to play the gameas an entertainer: we just don't have the flexibility of other professions and new players trying to play an entertainer are quickly demoralised by the fact that there's no money in it - never has been. So there have never been enoughentertainers to populate the servers to the extent that the game designersoriginally intended. This was true before the hologrind, and before buffbots made their first appearance. The situation has become steadily worse, with a major setback in August last year when mission terminals were nerfed, and now with buffbots it is completely impossible toadvance inthe game as an entertainer. Some stubbornentertainers are still in the cantinas, alongside the AFKers and the buffbots, but they are almost an extinct breed. Entertainers aren't leaving because, as you say,the hologrind is over. Hologrinders aren't entertainers. They are bots. Real entertainers are leaving the profession at a regular rate, and have been since last September. The reasons are lack of respect for the profession on the part of the community and the developers, and a profession which is broken so badly that it is just no fun to play, evenfor those of us who are drawn to non-combat professions.
"...Entertaining is "boring" for most people.This does not mean you,it actually means exactly what it says formost people."
I agree, but no profession is interesting for 'most people'. If any of them were, it would be a major game imbalance. Why aren't we asking why theentertainer class is so incrediblyuninviting? After all, the idea of being an entertainer is no more boring on the face of itthan the idea of being a droid engineer or a tailor, and entertainers have one major advantage in that they play a relativelylarge role in the star wars movies (at least compared to tailors and droid engineers, who don't show up in the moviesat all). Entertainer could be more interesting as a profession. It doesn't have to be boring for most people. The reasons it is sounattractive are: 1 there's no money in it; 2 the tip system invites contempt; 3 there's too little content; 4 many features don't work; 5 macros are poorly implemented and open to abuse;6 there are no game-advantageousrewards for becoming better at it. That's just off the top of my head. Entertainers could be so much more than they are, if only we had our place in line in terms of seriousdeveloper attention. I don't care if it's last place in line. But right now we're not even on the list.
All true, except I dothink the Hologrind is a big part of entertainer departure, because of the influx of AKFers and demoralizing effects of them, perhaps it is poorly phrased in that I sort of implied that the"entertainer core" has alot of Hologrinders in it (even though it does,hologrinders, as you said, are not meant to be counted as entertainers they are really Jedi padawannabes and we agree there)
and we agree there)I agree with the fact there is very little content for entertainers it should be greatly expanded, however the profession itself would still be limited in it's interaction with the general populace.
Which is whyI do think that entertainers would be better suited if they could take a second profession (Combat) along with their entertainer profession,and be competive.They could do more traveling with their guild mates ect. At the moment however, because of stackable defenses, asingle comabt profession is a poor choice. This isn't a choice for Hardcore entertainers of course, but it would bring the core of real entertainers up.
PS If there were not the problem with the entertainer shortage I would not even go to see a Buff Bot. I much prefer to give my money to real people. 
Beery
Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:57 am
#26
"If I walk into the cantina and there is no master musician or master dancer advertising that they are buffing I -will- head straight to that AFK "Buffbot" entertainer for my buff."
And there's nothing wrong with that. Currently there arevery fewlive entertainers. If you've made the effort to go to a cantina to find a live entertainer to do your buffing, you've done your part. It's people who go to the buffbots first that I have a problem with.
"...I have been trained to NOT bother asking master musicians or dancers for buffs... several months straight of asking if people are buffing only to be ignored, told they are too busy, told they dont want to do it or told they dont know HOW (heck, -i- know how, and I am a combat class)."
I'm afraid that there's a huge reservoir of despair that's grown among entertainers. Many feel that they just don't get equal respect from other playersfor the job they do. This comes from the fact that most players don't say thank you for heals and buffs, and 80% (in my experience)don'ttip entertainers, and tips are where thecantina workersmust make themoney needed to enjoy the game's perks (vehicles, droids, clothes, etc.). Many entertainers have decided that if the majority of thecommunity won't pay them or even thank themfor the service they provide, they aren't going to provide the service. The alternative for themis to demand payment - something which is unpalatable for them and for their customers - just look at the response to those who do ask for payment: they are ridiculed for demanding payment for something that costs nothing. Considering that entertainers ONLY have heals and buffs to give - they can't pay for raw materials because the raw material is thetime theyspend gaining XP - many entertainers think it's a littleunreasonable to expectthem to give away the fruits of their labour for free. After all, they pay their $15 per month and theyneed to play the game too (by which I mean thatevery player needsmore from the gamethan the daily grind to get XP) - for this they need money, and since people rarely tip entertainersthe cantina professions are the only ones that aren't self-sufficient in terms ofrevenue. As a class, the entertainer playeris in a tough spot. He's a person who oftendislikes the combat professions, yet he is expected to take up a second career as a combat professional if he's to have any chance of thriving in the game. The onlyalternative to that is to just give up on the game altogether, and many are doing just that.