Dancer Archive
Thread: Make dancers like Politicians...
Iagree with Tils. I didn't think I would like dancer to become 0 sp at first. It was a knee jerk reaction due to all this time I've spent as a dancer. But I think about all the parties I've hosted and the #1 thing I hear is "I wish I could dance". It's not worth retemplating everytime I have a party just so they can dance but they certainly see the fun the dancers are having and wish they could join in.
I think dancer would become a more popular profession dropping skill points. Likeothers said, not everyone will become a dancer but those on the fence folks that love combat but wish they could dance would be.More people enjoying dancer meansdevs could put more time into entertainer content.It will please a greater number of the player base than it would previously.Pilot is a good example of content being added even without a skill point cost. Its a separate part of the game and I think so is the social game we play.
I think it would be fun.
Ylis wrote:
I am so torn on this debate. Sometimes I wish for dancer to be free of skill points since I am a combatant also, sometimes I feel that it is the last thing I want.
One thing I am sure of is that if they did remove the SP requirement, not everyone would suddenly pick up master musician or dancer. How many master politicians do you know? Is everyone you know a master pilot?
I would prefer to be given something worth those skill points in all honesty, but coming from a server where Coronet, Theed and Eisley are empty (not even a single afker) I long for the social interaction of the old times.
keep in mind that politician depend purely on other people to gain xp. not everyone is a master poli because of how much work it is to get there, but I'm sure there are plenty of novice poli who picked it up just for the heck of it. it's sad to say, but poli and pilot xp also can't be afked.
that's not what my concern was for entertainers is though (hey, the more entertainers the better right?) I'm all for giving ents more freedom to do other things like combat or crafting, and maybe a reduction in skillpoint cost to a certain degree, but I just don't have the heart to think about another profession turning 0sp. I can't point my finger one thing that sums up why it's bad, but it is. fixes and new content don't get mentioned, regulars go bitter, you feel more insignificant, etc., and I wish they would've reconsidered when I said half of my forum was against 0sp.
again, I would much rather they give us more attention, and that we use 0sp only as a last "fine I'll accept no more updates/new content/bug fixes but let us be 0sp" resort.
A compromise would be for Ents to be credited for their fitness to perform. Those of us who are hybrids would at least get a HAM on the same level as CL80s, perhaps with some terrain negotiation and and lower action costs to reflect our stamina.
As posted elsewhere, if all players got basic then they could join in with social events and dance at parties etc, cantinas may be become more lively as a result.
I will see what sort of a difference this publish makes, but now may be the time I hang up my dancing shoes.
glory wrote:
If you want to get people into the cantinas....make dancing and musician a profession that cost NO skill points.
Making entertainers into 0SP professions is an admission by the devs that entertainer is nothing more than a fancy emote-making system; not a profession at all. It's the best way I can think of to insure that there is never another minute spent on developing "entertainer content".
I'm curious why some people feel that it would be okay to turn entertainer into 0SP whereas it's not okay to, say, turn all combat professions into 0SP professions. What this tells me is that there's some faction of players who see entertainers as nothing more than people with fancy emotes....
Tammylynn wrote:
glory wrote:
If you want to get people into the cantinas....make dancing and musician a profession that cost NO skill points.
In a way I think that would be nice and allow some to enjoy entertaining. But I beleive the cantinas would be packed with the AFK force village grinders. (worse then it is now)
If they made it 0SP I am sure they would remove enterainer from the FS conversion altogether.
Ylis wrote:
If they made it 0SP I am sure they would remove enterainer from the FS conversion altogether.
If everyone could be dancer, would you ever see a tip for your performances again? (been bad enough since the hologrind)
If everyone could be dancer would they do it live or afk? (hologrind flashbacks incomming)
If everyone could be dancer would people 'need' to come in to cantina's as often? (surely many would just heal up in a player city cantina, it only needs 2+ people together and they dont have to visit an active cantina for the duration of their play time)
If dancer was 0 sp would they retain all the usefull buffs they just been given?
If dancer was 0 sp would strangers come to you? or wouldthey just be buffing each other and largely ignoring you, since you would likely require payment
If dancer cost 0sp how many socialisers would really be in the cantina? given all of the above? I think it will be a lot less than currently since socialising would really be the only reason to visit cantina's anymore other than to gain exp (which majority will do afk, lets not kid ourselves here) Currently people in need of BF healing or buffs often visit cantina's to get these, and socialise while doing it, if their hunting partner could do it for them.....
I could probably think of more points against it, and if anyone wants to throw a more possitive spin on it id love to hear it (from a purely personal opinion id love to be able to master dancer and musician on my tailor character as it means i can cancell my second accnt which i have for dancer )
LyteFoot wrote:
First pilot is not zero skill point, it takes a TON of experience, it is just a different tree. Now I'm not oppossed to making combat and non-combat different skill trees. Removing SP from the entertainer trees will leave it just like politician, never touched by a dev hand again.
Be realistic, it won't fill the cantinas again. If it does fill them it will be a short burst as a ton of people AFK level their dancer or musician during the hours they aren't fighting. Then a short burst as they try out the new skills at a party. As soon as they've done it a couple of times their curiosity will be satisfied and you won't see them again.
There is one and only one way to fill the cantinas and that is to make us required. The down side of that is the animosity it brings. They haven't figured out how to keep that from occurring. They either need to provide functions that get us out of the cantina and into the field or they need to make our game a separate game like space is.
I have been playing this game since day one....and I remember when we all socialized in the cantinas and had a blast. I think if players had a reason to be there, they would welcome the change. Dancing is one fun part of this game that is pure socialization. SOOOO many players are complaining about how that has gone from the game...and they are totally correct. BUT what good does it do anyone to sit in a cantina with nothing to do but watch the same AFKers?
Give players a chance to participate...and they will have fun again. NO one is making a living dancing or playing music. Not what you could make doing missions. And the variety would be awesome for everyone. As for the politician thing...you are wrong. There are only so many cities and cities allowed. I sell houses and city halls on my architect. I get tons of requests for city hall but have to explain that Naboo and Tatooine are full...many many disappointed players who want to try out polititician but not live on the other planets....young and new players.
Panthu wrote:
I've always thought going to zero SP or being part of a non-combat skill point pool would be fine for all the Ent profs.Combat skills are limited within themselves so no one can become too powerful. It makes sense to limit crafting as well, so no one toon can make everything and be too powerful that way.Dancing, playing music, and doing make up though? I don't know, I can't think how that could make anyone too powerful no matter what you were allowed to put it all with.
I would have to respectfully disagree with your position here, both on a matter of principle, and also because we're finally getting some dev loving.
The principle is that if we were made a zero skill point profession wouldn't that essentially be an admission that the experiment of entertainer professions in the game has failed and that it's only combatants and crafters that matter? This doesn't, to me, sound like a very safe road to be travelling or advocating.
Now, from the perspective that we're finally useful for something again, becoming a zero skill point profession would essentially mean that no one would come to us. Instead, hunting parties would just have their designated dancer to buff everyone up and they'd be out the door, without actually bothering to deal with real entertainers. Again, this seems that it would be going the wrong direction. I don't want to just hang out and socialize, I want to be a part of the game as well.
glory wrote:
LyteFoot wrote:
First pilot is not zero skill point, it takes a TON of experience, it is just a different tree. Now I'm not oppossed to making combat and non-combat different skill trees. Removing SP from the entertainer trees will leave it just like politician, never touched by a dev hand again.
Be realistic, it won't fill the cantinas again. If it does fill them it will be a short burst as a ton of people AFK level their dancer or musician during the hours they aren't fighting. Then a short burst as they try out the new skills at a party. As soon as they've done it a couple of times their curiosity will be satisfied and you won't see them again.
There is one and only one way to fill the cantinas and that is to make us required. The down side of that is the animosity it brings. They haven't figured out how to keep that from occurring. They either need to provide functions that get us out of the cantina and into the field or they need to make our game a separate game like space is.
I have been playing this game since day one....and I remember when we all socialized in the cantinas and had a blast. I think if players had a reason to be there, they would welcome the change. Dancing is one fun part of this game that is pure socialization. SOOOO many players are complaining about how that has gone from the game...and they are totally correct. BUT what good does it do anyone to sit in a cantina with nothing to do but watch the same AFKers?
Give players a chance to participate...and they will have fun again. NO one is making a living dancing or playing music. Not what you could make doing missions. And the variety would be awesome for everyone. As for the politician thing...you are wrong. There are only so many cities and cities allowed. I sell houses and city halls on my architect. I get tons of requests for city hall but have to explain that Naboo and Tatooine are full...many many disappointed players who want to try out polititician but not live on the other planets....young and new players.
I would say that is not my experience . I have 4 Entertainer toons who all do rather well and have much larger bank balances than my combat character. I dont bot them ever and play them ATK all the time . My biggest problem with the new buffs is the multitude of tells I get when I log on.
Alphessa
PoetDancer wrote:
The great thing about making Dancer a zero SP profession, is that it will allow all the players who never saw the point of what we do, earn fancy emotes by leaving their computer on, while they sleep.Seriously. If they wanted to do it, they'd do it.But on a more personal note,I have no items to speak of.I have no jedi.I have a pittance of credits.I haven't seen any of the places everyone raves about, like the inside of the Death Watch Bunker.The only dignity I have in this game is that I can do those dances, and they cannot.And I am sorry, Til, but I did not pay over $400 US dollars, and climb the ladder to mastery all ATK for eleven months, just because the very same people who made my game a living hell for two years, believe it would be nice if their level 80 uberstacker named 'DeathOwnerz' could do Poplock after he DBed a Jedi on the loadscreen in Coronet, while wearing hawtpantz.I don't mean to be so harsh, Til.Maybe my mind is not open to the possibility, and I am an idiot not worthy.But yes...it matters that much to me.Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-30-2005 10:43 PM
wow... bitter much?
i personally, would love to see dancer/musician taken down in skill point req (a la image designer) or simply do away wth the skill points all together.
consider my situation. i am forced to purchase a second account to dance and image design, why? because i love to pvp. and you cannot pvp as a dancer. you can try, but you cannot be effective.
was a time when i was a master dancer, master brawler, tkm. i could go out and partake of pvp effectively. i could with friends, go out and do any pve i wished. the game was fully accessible to me as this hybrid template, which i had always thought was the very INTENT of the devs in the first place.
unfortunately, they decided to stick arbitrary levels into a skill based game. this is inherently wrong of course, the logic is well.. non. i cannot pvp as a level 54. i cannot enjoy fun rewarding pve (as if there is any anyways
) as a level 54. thus, i leave behind the world of dance forever. and must continue to support a second account, which i will have to cancel shortly due to being unemployed.i dont really LIKE having to dance on an alt. in fact, im cancelling her shortly, as her very remote and final usefullness as a buff bit has been removed
. i dont like ppl not knowing who i am, i dont like having different things, i dont LIKE it. i want to be a dancer on my main. but i had to decide what would be more fun to me... dance, or pvp. didnt use to be that way, did it. as a dancer or musician hybrid, and certainly as an entertainer only, we are now relegated to the cantina. we cant go anywhere for fear of a thief or a chunker lug one shotting us on the way to the starport. certainly cant explore dathomir or kashyyyk. cant use good stims, cant wear armor, cant use a weapon that would save us.
(side note: i cant imagine how in gods name it took you 11 months to master a handful of professions. i have mastered dancer and musician and entertainer and ID all atk. and it surely didnt take me 11 months to do any of those the MULTIPLE times that i have done them
)perhaps it is selfsh of me. im sorry if all us "lvl 80 uberstacker's" also wanting to enjoy the world of dance bothers you. heaven forbid.
Why would SOE give you a reason to cancel your second account, because you could do everything you wanted to on one account?