Dancer Archive
Thread: retraining the crowds
Maisland
Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:09 pm
#14
When I first started playing, I thought that /setperform was the only way to give/get a dancer/musician buff. It seems to me that these days, most people don't even know that /setperform even exists and think that you have to be grouped to get a buff. The problems that you describe can all be attributed to bots. Too many people have gotten so used to bots that they have no clue how to treat a real entertainer. We simply have to retrain them. Retraining is hard work. You just have to keep repeating your instructions until they understand. Maybe once the recursive macros go away, we will be able to make more progress on the retraining.
Side note: Some time ago, I gave an entire group a buff just by doing a /setperform on the group leader without having to be grouped with them. The last time I tried this, it didn't work. I would much rather be able to buff an entire group this way than having to be in the group with them. Anyone know anything about why and when this was changed?
ImajiNashun
Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:06 am
#15
I have spent the last 3 days at MO and have been having a blast!! I found that the patrons there were extremely pleased that there were actual live entertainers there. I patiently performed one buff at a time and most were receptive to waiting their turn. I did a lot of educating on live buffs and held many interesting conversations with those who were waiting. I had no rudeness although some stood quietly or just left when they didn't see their bot present. The only problem I had was when the buffbot did show up after I had been there for 3 hours enjoying myself. Apparently I was in the bots "spot" and it came in and practically stood on me and promptly went into afk mode. I moved away whenI realized there would be no consideration of me and surprisingly several of the customers moved over to me to wait for their live buff! This to me is progress and a definite sign of hope for our profession. Hmmm, wonder what will happen when I can actually offer master buffs! 
Cindal
Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:48 am
#16
I was in MO the other night buffing some friends - there were 5 "vendors" buffing as well. I was amazed to hear people say "Invite to Cindal" as I was having a conversation in spatial with the group I was buffing. When I explained that I was the leader and was sorry buthad just completed buffing my group and thatI would be leaving in a few moments with my group, I was told that this is my job and I can't refuse to buff.
People often walk up and ask for an invite in the cantinas - I merely ask if they intend to dance or play and if they are playing - what is their highest song so that the group can accommodate them. Apparently this is frightening to many players and they run off. Others say that they are looking for a buff.
When someone asks for a buff and then asks to be invited, I ask if they are seeking a buff for a group of players. If the answer "no, just for me" then I explain that there is no need to group as I can direct my performance to them. Many players who have grown up with "vendors" are unaware of this feature.
Unfortunately it is up to the entertainers to educate the new players on how buffs actually work.
Petronela
Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:46 am
#18
Yeah, the Shadowfire’s most favorite BoT being MIA really did send ripples of panic through the server as a wildfire.
Personally I do hope the person behind the BoT avatar is ok because it is so very unlike her. She’s been parked in MO day in day out, rain and shine for a long time. And regardless how I feel about her play style I would never wish no ill on anyone.
However listening to some talk resulting of this was rather amusing.
Till the moment I was asked by one of my regular customers to meet him in MO for buffs.
Hood pulled low and no title showing I snucked in the back room of the cantina to buff him.
The music buff went well but about halfway through the dance someone walked in and I was "busted".
So I ended up staying for over an hour.
Ikewe you are so correct.
Trying to work in that place ATK does takes a patience of a Saint.
Over all it was very hmmm "educational".
I did feel like a broken record constantly repeating: of course I will buff you if you need it but we don’t have to be grouped for it just make sure you are /watching-/listening to me.
However two separate people made my stay there short because I didn’t want to loose my cool.
One person after getting his dance and music buff called me a rebel scum and announced my buffs were lame and not worth paying for.
Well I know for a fact he got a full buff and I’m sorry I can’t afford no attachments so only offer regular music and 105% dance.
Hell even the leotard I wear was a gift from a very kind customer who had a life-time of free buffs from me just because he has always been nice to me.
Second incident was a person who actually didn’t get buffed at all. He was spamming me with /invites as if they were going out of style while the whole time I was trying to explain to him there is no need for us to group.
Well, he got mad and just walked away but for next 30 minutes proceeded in sending me hate tells about what b**** I am and how I don’t know what the hell I’m doing, how he was getting mind buffs for ever so it’s not my place to tell him how and how ignorant I was and hmmm oh yeah how he will make sure my days were numbered lol. He may have said more but by then he was on my ignore list.
Like everyone else has pointed out, it will take a lot of patience on out part to reeducate the public. But unless they are rude to me I do not hold their not knowing against them.
But I do have to say DarkYoda’s way of doing it does have it’s merits too.
Do you by any chance give wiping classes so we don’t tire to fast? *evilgrin*
Deli'ah
Personally I do hope the person behind the BoT avatar is ok because it is so very unlike her. She’s been parked in MO day in day out, rain and shine for a long time. And regardless how I feel about her play style I would never wish no ill on anyone.
However listening to some talk resulting of this was rather amusing.
Till the moment I was asked by one of my regular customers to meet him in MO for buffs.
Hood pulled low and no title showing I snucked in the back room of the cantina to buff him.
The music buff went well but about halfway through the dance someone walked in and I was "busted".
So I ended up staying for over an hour.
Ikewe you are so correct.
Trying to work in that place ATK does takes a patience of a Saint.
Over all it was very hmmm "educational".
I did feel like a broken record constantly repeating: of course I will buff you if you need it but we don’t have to be grouped for it just make sure you are /watching-/listening to me.
However two separate people made my stay there short because I didn’t want to loose my cool.
One person after getting his dance and music buff called me a rebel scum and announced my buffs were lame and not worth paying for.
Well I know for a fact he got a full buff and I’m sorry I can’t afford no attachments so only offer regular music and 105% dance.
Hell even the leotard I wear was a gift from a very kind customer who had a life-time of free buffs from me just because he has always been nice to me.
Second incident was a person who actually didn’t get buffed at all. He was spamming me with /invites as if they were going out of style while the whole time I was trying to explain to him there is no need for us to group.
Well, he got mad and just walked away but for next 30 minutes proceeded in sending me hate tells about what b**** I am and how I don’t know what the hell I’m doing, how he was getting mind buffs for ever so it’s not my place to tell him how and how ignorant I was and hmmm oh yeah how he will make sure my days were numbered lol. He may have said more but by then he was on my ignore list.
Like everyone else has pointed out, it will take a lot of patience on out part to reeducate the public. But unless they are rude to me I do not hold their not knowing against them.
But I do have to say DarkYoda’s way of doing it does have it’s merits too.
Do you by any chance give wiping classes so we don’t tire to fast? *evilgrin*
Deli'ah
Ikewe
Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:29 am
#19
I had never found providing mind buffs to be a frustrating experience before this event in the Mining Outpost. I only ever ask for tips so the "negotiate pay" is fairly quick. If someone doesn't tip then they don't tip - not a big deal for me because I have an alternate means of income. I had encountered people before who didn't know I could set my performance and they would get a buff and normally I was able to explain the process pretty easily. But these people seemed to be dumb as posts. I would try spatial, group, direct tells anything I could so get the message to them and still they seemed unable to grasp even the most basic rudimentary concept of " fu****** stop watching for the 100th time already!" They were clearly watching spatial since they were blathering on about how they needed one more person for their solo group, or were looking to buy some new armor, or how X was the shiz, or Y was gay. Honestly I felt like Arnold in Kindergarten Cop on his first day in class. Everytime I would get that evil group invite message I would say "X was that a mistake?" typically they would say "no we need mind buffs" so I would respond that it was more customary to ask for a mind buff than silently try to invite an entertainer. I would then accept the invitation to buff the group but was now stuck with others yelling "I need an invite to the dancer" and my not being able to invite them.
It's too bad they can't make it so that entertainers cannot invite multiple people at a time or as one person suggested simply do a /setp on the group leader and be able to buff the entire group. Since changing the system is clearly not an option I guess we'll just have to kill them... er.. I mean whip them.. er... I mean retrain them.
I'm hopeful that now that the "solo group" has come to a crashing halt things will return to normal some what and we can indeed attempt to communicate with people again. Perhaps their ability to comprehend Basic suffers when they are in a group of more than 2 other species.. all those dialects can get pretty confusing I am sure.
Deli'ah, I love the add ignore feature too 
And sometimes just to show how much of a B**** I can be I throw up a deny service too just so they can see both those messages on their screen. I've also been known to announce "X is so lame. He thinks he's a dancer. Let's all watch him try to buff and see what happens." and then I stand there and say "okayX strut your stuff and show me how it's done." I am no where near as nice as you are......
And sometimes just to show how much of a B**** I can be I throw up a deny service too just so they can see both those messages on their screen. I've also been known to announce "X is so lame. He thinks he's a dancer. Let's all watch him try to buff and see what happens." and then I stand there and say "okayX strut your stuff and show me how it's done." I am no where near as nice as you are......Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
LyteFoot
Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:35 am
#20
I worked MO in dant a couple of nights ago with Imaji. Yes it is frustrating, especially to watch people walk past you to a bot. However I wasn't there to buff I was there to perform for Imaji while she got healing xp. I did get several requests, that I filled, when the bot group got full. I also made a good deal of money off a relatively small number of customers. I can't compare my experience to one where there was no bot in the room but I can tell you that day in and day out my experience is that 9 out of 10 people who start by treating me as a bot end up tipping, bowing, and thanking me.
It is about patience but it is also about showing them you can do it better. Imaji offers them a dance buff while informing them it isn't master level yet and still gets a number of takers, but then its hard to refuse her . What wins is management of the players time. If it is one or only two I'll do setperform. If I start getting a line I'll start grouping them in. What wins every single time with a larger group is the fact that I can group them in and start a timer for them at any point, they don't have to wait for my next cycle. Yes I got a few "invite to Elwyn" statements in spatial but what I found is that every time I responsded with "you don't need an invite if you want a buff, would you like one?" I got a polite answer. If someone was short in their responses I just took it that they didn't want to talk and did the job with as little interaction as possible.
. What wins is management of the players time. If it is one or only two I'll do setperform. If I start getting a line I'll start grouping them in. What wins every single time with a larger group is the fact that I can group them in and start a timer for them at any point, they don't have to wait for my next cycle. Yes I got a few "invite to Elwyn" statements in spatial but what I found is that every time I responsded with "you don't need an invite if you want a buff, would you like one?" I got a polite answer. If someone was short in their responses I just took it that they didn't want to talk and did the job with as little interaction as possible.I was also surprised to find that something we may often miss with the non-responsive player is english is not their native language. I had one player who took a fair amount of work, because he didn't always understand me. It took a couple of minutes for me to realize this but once I did I said everything in very simple, concise statement. He not only tipped me a huge amount but thanked me repeatedly for helping him get a buff. I don't think he could even follow the buff-bots instructions fast enough to use it. So some of those rude or unresponsive people may simply not know how to talk to you.
I also did a DWB group on Sunday and again showed where live ents can beat out bots. As with most large groups they were arriving at different intervals and generally milling around. Instead of forcing everyone to wait for the stragglers Imaji healed their wounds to get that out of the way while I provided music. Then I started the music buff on the first wave while a dancer friend stood by to do that buff. A second group arrived about a minute into the first group and I instructed them that they were group 2, that they should start listening, and that I was starting a timer. I had one last straggler as the first bunch was finishing so I did him seperate. Of all of the people his was the one that didn't take so I calmly got him listening again and told him I was going to /setp to insure it stuck. Keia was managing them in a similar fashion for the dance buff so that all in all we provided a level of service way beyond the bot. No waiting through the current dance and music cycle before a person could get their buff, no delays, no failures that again meant another wait. There were a few of my Theed customers in the group who expressed true appreciation at seeing it was me managing the buffs and that felt great. I gained a few new friends, a couple new customers, and a group leader who plans to use me again.
It really is about making the experience better through good time management for the players and yourself along with a pleasant attitude. If someone is rude I tell them so quiet plainly and they generally stop. If they don't then I tell them to find someone else. If that doesn't do it then I /deny and move on.
Watch out buff-bots Imaji is almost a master then the best buff team on Corbantis will be unleased
Ikewe
Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:58 am
#21
Lytefoot, If they were not fluent in English that would be revealed quite easily in their own phrasing. We have quite a few languages spoken on Shadowfire (they often speak their own languages in spatial) and even those who tend to have some difficulties with certain phrasing have always easily understood "start watching" and "stop watching". My goal when buffing has always been to get them buffed and on their way as fast as possible. It's why I do not do a performance dance to buff but rather the shortest flourish again and again for just over 3 minutes. But you'd think that if speed is what they are interested in then they'd be paying attention to what the dancer/musician is telling them. I'm not writing novellas when I tell them "Your buff is done. Stop watching" I am beginning to understand why the robot vendor was always "howling" or "shouting". Perhaps the constant weapons fire has damaged their hearing but it takes twice as long to buff these people as any where else on my server.
I have a much better experience when I go to Dathomir and hang out in the Science Outpost. Because those groups often have difficulty arriving and being ready at the same time they do appreciate having an entertainer who is willing to continue without having some stupid robot cycle. By essentially continuously buffing and creating individual timers for each person I can get them on their way much faster than any buff bot. It just seems to be the Mining Outpost on my server that attracts the terminally rude. That can't just be coincidence. It is the home of the solo group and has been home to a robot vendor for months. Only time will tell how those players will now cope. Perhaps we will see them wandering aimlessly in the wilds, pulling their hair and ranting about needing an invite.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Petronela
Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:42 am
#22
Ikewe wrote:
It is the home of the solo group and has been home to a robot vendor for months. Only time will tell how those players will now cope. Perhaps we will see them wandering aimlessly in the wilds, pulling their hair and ranting about needing an invite.
_______________
OMG I busted laughing so hard I spilled my coffee and oops there a coworker looking at me strangely.
But that’s a good one hehehe.
Deli'ah
It is the home of the solo group and has been home to a robot vendor for months. Only time will tell how those players will now cope. Perhaps we will see them wandering aimlessly in the wilds, pulling their hair and ranting about needing an invite.
_______________
OMG I busted laughing so hard I spilled my coffee and oops there a coworker looking at me strangely.
But that’s a good one hehehe.
Deli'ah
Doriana
Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:12 am
#23
Quite simply I never, never never start a buff session anymore without being grouped with a pet first.
Never.
Now, I'm an MCH as well as dancer, so sometimes I just whip out the Mantigrue Screecher and people figure not to mess with me because I'm obviously in a bad mood. But most of the time I use my cute little rasp. Low level - I've gotten quite a few for other people who aren't CH.
I HIGHLY recommend you ask a favor of your favorite CH and see if s/he will get you one. The light blue and white ones are missionable on Talus, the red ones are wanderers in the Agrilat Swamp...forgot where the darker blue ones come from. Most people like the light blue ones best...
That clears up the silent group invites. For me that let me relax quite a bit and focus on dealing with the other issues.
The downside of course is that a lot of people will see that you are grouped and will either do the "invite to [dancer]" or will leave without saying anything.
I usually ignore "invite to ent group" or "invite to dance group" spam or tell people they will get an invite to the dance group when they start dancing. But I'm mean like that. If someone says "invite to Doriana" it depends on my mood. If I'm not worn down yet I will generally /frown the first time, and catiously ignore. Surprisingly that has cleared up a good part of it because they realize I'm ATK and then proceed to "kiss my ass" by way of saying "can I please get a buff?" If I've been there buffing and I'm to the point where I'm stressed out, I've been known to get quite upset.
I guess I take a "tough love" viewpoint. I certainly don't want to turn people away, my whole point of being in a cantina is helping people since I can /startdance anywhere. But I view it as a two way street -- they have to be at least polite or neutral to earn getting buffed. I'm not talking chatty, I'm not talking gushing with happy sentiments.. I'm talking "Hey can I get a buff please?" instead of "invite." I've been told this is an unreasonable demand and that it's "people like me" with our "attitude problems" that drive people to bots, but I don't see how treating me like a person isntead of an NPC and asking instead of demanding is that onerous. So when I can enforce it, people who aren't polite don't get buffs. They generally get heals, because I don't toss around /deny lightly. But treat me like an NPC and I'll act like one -- an NPC can't invite you to their group or do a /setperformance.
I've had some success with this in player city cantinas. Regulars learned fairly quick that I wasn't going to respond and honestly at least a few of them "woke up" when they realized just how upset the situation makes live people and have been a lot better to not only me but other people as well. But I hang out in a player city with a (generally) mature player base for regulars. I don't know if this method will work on the l33t t33nz grinding jedi out of the MO. Quite honestly I've not been able to find a populated NPC cantina without a bot in it. (Theed is "clean" right now but Theed and Coronet both have dedicated Hotel Bots so it's not "populated" in the sense of people coming there to find a buff)
Never.
Now, I'm an MCH as well as dancer, so sometimes I just whip out the Mantigrue Screecher and people figure not to mess with me because I'm obviously in a bad mood. But most of the time I use my cute little rasp. Low level - I've gotten quite a few for other people who aren't CH.
I HIGHLY recommend you ask a favor of your favorite CH and see if s/he will get you one. The light blue and white ones are missionable on Talus, the red ones are wanderers in the Agrilat Swamp...forgot where the darker blue ones come from. Most people like the light blue ones best...
That clears up the silent group invites. For me that let me relax quite a bit and focus on dealing with the other issues.
The downside of course is that a lot of people will see that you are grouped and will either do the "invite to [dancer]" or will leave without saying anything.
I usually ignore "invite to ent group" or "invite to dance group" spam or tell people they will get an invite to the dance group when they start dancing. But I'm mean like that. If someone says "invite to Doriana" it depends on my mood. If I'm not worn down yet I will generally /frown the first time, and catiously ignore. Surprisingly that has cleared up a good part of it because they realize I'm ATK and then proceed to "kiss my ass" by way of saying "can I please get a buff?" If I've been there buffing and I'm to the point where I'm stressed out, I've been known to get quite upset.
I guess I take a "tough love" viewpoint. I certainly don't want to turn people away, my whole point of being in a cantina is helping people since I can /startdance anywhere. But I view it as a two way street -- they have to be at least polite or neutral to earn getting buffed. I'm not talking chatty, I'm not talking gushing with happy sentiments.. I'm talking "Hey can I get a buff please?" instead of "invite." I've been told this is an unreasonable demand and that it's "people like me" with our "attitude problems" that drive people to bots, but I don't see how treating me like a person isntead of an NPC and asking instead of demanding is that onerous. So when I can enforce it, people who aren't polite don't get buffs. They generally get heals, because I don't toss around /deny lightly. But treat me like an NPC and I'll act like one -- an NPC can't invite you to their group or do a /setperformance.
I've had some success with this in player city cantinas. Regulars learned fairly quick that I wasn't going to respond and honestly at least a few of them "woke up" when they realized just how upset the situation makes live people and have been a lot better to not only me but other people as well. But I hang out in a player city with a (generally) mature player base for regulars. I don't know if this method will work on the l33t t33nz grinding jedi out of the MO. Quite honestly I've not been able to find a populated NPC cantina without a bot in it. (Theed is "clean" right now but Theed and Coronet both have dedicated Hotel Bots so it's not "populated" in the sense of people coming there to find a buff)
Doriana
Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:16 am
#24
Ikewe wrote:
It is the home of the solo group and has been home to a robot vendor for months. Only time will tell how those players will now cope. Perhaps we will see them wandering aimlessly in the wilds, pulling their hair and ranting about needing an invite.
Maybe they'll ask the Dark Jedi Masters for invites....
LyteFoot
Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:48 am
#25
Ikewe wrote:
It just seems to be the Mining Outpost on my server that attracts the terminally rude. That can't just be coincidence. It is the home of the solo group and has been home to a robot vendor for months. Only time will tell how those players will now cope. Perhaps we will see them wandering aimlessly in the wilds, pulling their hair and ranting about needing an invite.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
LOL well I guess I'm lucky on Corbantis. Yes there are some overly rude ones, like the d00d that tried to ruin our starport performance Saturday, but for the most part players do respond decently when I interact. Maybe its me, I'm not a long time entertainer so maybe I'm not as frustrated. Either way the experience is, for the most part, enjoyable and I wouldn't trade it for anything else in this game. Some of my guild mates wonder about me but they are supportive and with Imaji dancing with me there isn't a better place to be. So I guess it's a combination of a server that hasn't gone as far down the buff bot track and aless jadedview of things.
I know I don't get nearly as many out right rude people as others seem to get so Corbantis still has hope.
Groovymarlin
Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:09 am
#26
picklesSW wrote:
Anyone know where Oh-Orb performs?
I want to know too! I'm DYING to see that performance!!