Dancer Archive

AudioOrgana I think the message is failing to get through. This forum has been hate ridden for so long that the people who primarily lurk in the community here feel that only their voice has weight and only their voice has a legitimate right to exist.

The bully the correspondents, they bully anyone new who tries to post here and they bully anyone that does not and will not agree 100% that the game is completely awful and that we should burn the makers at the stake for daring to leave this profession in the game in any state less exactly the way they want it.

Even when the devs post that the macro changes are coming and that they are too complicated for a simple hotfix, the crowd here lashed out. They want the change NOW any thing less is unacceptable! Well... Maybe it isn't possible yet. Maybe they see holes that are created when one macro subsystem is changed that WON'T fix the problem. Maybe they still aren't sure how to have a macro system and make it uncheatable without breaking it. It's obvious they want it fixed because they have tried other hotfixes to kill AFK skill gain problems in other professions... Which didn't work.

*sigh* I guess I will go back to lurking and posting on my galaxy forum.

I've never seen any newcomer come into this forum and get treated badly unless they were making an AFK bot. I'm relatively new here myself, and *I* wasn't treated badly when I first posted here.


J.

Umiio "Umi" Panwanga • Rodian party girl • Bria
Iba'onchab • Gets boarded sometimes • Chimaera

This random sig quote is brought to you by the Flare Sci Fi forums:
"In the incredibly sad circles I traveled in as a young boy, knowing that Greedo was played by a girl was the best way to establish nerd cred."

Sirii has hit the nail on the head. For the longest time the majority of posters here were all about the don't put anything negative. Think positive, post positive, be positive. For if we are negative the Devs will ignore us and avoid our forums. And if we are just positive in our feedback and our out-look, things will get done faster and blah blah blah. Anyone posting anything that was looked at as negative was harshly dealt with for the most part.

Being positive and hoping and praying and holding our breath not rocking the boat got us a whole lot of...
Hmm new content; 400k xp cost quests which we gave feedback on and were ignored. But yes at least they did manage to toss us some scraps from off their plates. Which some would think is a good thing. I myself would rather be invited to the table and served a full meal like others. But at least with scraps we aren't starving to death.

It got us, full time afk jedi grinders. More bots, and massive threads bashing us for the devs wanting to change the macro system.

After a while of super happy cute positive vibe. Like any smart playerbase we looked around and watched which groups got more then scraps. And how did they go about doing it. Our way wasn't working so we changed tactics so that now we aren't going to help those that come in actively looking to damage our proffessions value and interdependancy in the game. We could all be much more direct in our not helping them and rip into them. But for the most part we ignore them, and fill the thread with our own positive and happy fun stuff.

If you can't find the positive threads here then you aren't looking hard enough as there is a ton of them. Far more positive then negative. At least that's how I see it.

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*sigh* I guess I will go back to lurking and posting on my galaxy forum.

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If you can't deal with the fact that this community will never support AFK dispensing of game mechanics that are supposed to be dispensed only by players and not NPCs, perhaps that's for the best then.

When someone comes here posting "You all are stupid closed minded jerks and nothing is wrong with AFK becuase I did it and that makes it okay!" and then when that thread is deleted for trolling (surprise!) and the person then posts "how to fix buffbots!" outside of the sticky that was created to try to contain the topic and keep it out of the rest of the forum, don't expect us "jerks" to react nicely.

When someone comes here posting "plz giv macr0 4 AFK danc" don't expect anyone to give them a cut and paste macro and instructions on how to use it so they can level AFK and add one more to the ranks of people to be ashamed to share a profession with.

When someone comes here posting "oh yeah? well MY bot is necessary because you aren't individually online 24 hours a day! I can't be expected to know more than one entertainer! Besides, I make over a mil per day leaving it in the outpost!" don't expect us to say "Ohh, maybe I should try that too!"

You're acting like we start these threads ourselves. If that was the truth, yes, it would be a problem. Link me a "hateful" thread that has recently been started by what you consider a forum regular, please. Started, not replied to, because not reacting when other people come here and post things that are wrong, not correcting them when they post inaccuracies and lies, not standing up for ourselves when someone starts yet another "I want to get entertainers removed from the game because you are freakin' annoying" thread is not acceptable. If you want to lay down and die go ahead, but the rest of us don't and there is still fight left in us, and as long as people come here and try to hurt us we'll fight back.

When we attack people who come here looking for help to be ATK dancers, then you have a valid case. When we attack people who come here looking to use macros as an enhancement to game play instead of a crutch to play the game for them, then you have a point. When we attack someone saying "I just got novice dancer and I'd like to start learning how the buffing process works" instead of people who come here saying "i got mdance mmuzic plz tel how 2 buff," then I'll admit that we've gone to far. But I am confident that day won't be coming any time soon, because the only people who get negativity out are the ones who put it in to start with.

We can't force people to stay in the sticky, though I think it gives a great place to attempt to focus the anger and that it would be much worse around here without it... well, it WAS much worse around here before it. If you choose to ignore the positive and focus on the negative, that's your problem. But as long as people bring negativity here there's nothing that can be done except to deal with it.

Well, 1) that's neither a recent nor a "standard" thread, but a place to send all the people who want to argue so that we DON'T have it in every thread like we used to. 2) I apologize if I misunderstood your attitude, but when you attacked people in other threads for not giving macros to people who flat out said they would use it specifically for AFKing it really gives the impression that you either support AFKing or don't care either way.

Which is exactly my point -- if we give people who are saying up front that they intend to misue the tools a warm welcome and what they are here looking for, it gives the impression that we support what they are doing.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. If you know a better way of doing something for someone who comes in asking questions (ie playing at the keys) telling them to screw off or posting a recipe for your aunt sally's cookies is not going to help them. It makes YOU come across as nasty and petty.

Why can't you just give them an answer and then post the better way to do it? Why can't you applaud them for their interest in the profession and the role of dancer and help teach them where and how to make the profession fun? Why is it NOT ok to show them the polite way to macro when you KNOW they are going to anyway? How does it hurt you to be nice instead of bitter?

I hate to point out the fact that people have tried swaying people from AFK by being helpful and informative and trying to explain exactly what the AFKers do to the profession. Most times they are met with a "I'm just making a buffbot. Entertainers suck and you are all doodyheads". It gets frustrating after a while. I'm not even a big poster on the boards, but even I get frustrated by it.

If someone seems to be honestly interested in entertaining and not just out to make a buffbot I usually send them a PM with the macro I use (yes I run a macro while I'm in the cantina so I can also socialize. I, however, also perform most nights a week with bands and never run a macro then) along with a quick note telling them that any spam asking for tips or anything like that is usually frowned upon by combatants and entertainers alike. But when someone is obviously just trolling I'd much rather see cookie and fudge talk as compared to a huge flame war.

I have never once looked in the buffbot sticky. I don't care to see either side's arguments on the subject. I'd rather just wait it out until SOE fixes it. With that said I still think that it is an important sticky. Pointing someone to the sticky has many times saved good threads from going downhill and I really do prefer not having to wade through insults and I hate yous just to read the constructive posts in a thread.

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Else-Whira wrote:
I'm sorry but I have to disagree. If you know a better way of doing something for someone who comes in asking questions (ie playing at the keys) telling them to screw off or posting a recipe for your aunt sally's cookies is not going to help them. It makes YOU come across as nasty and petty.

Why can't you just give them an answer and then post the better way to do it? Why can't you applaud them for their interest in the profession and the role of dancer and help teach them where and how to make the profession fun? Why is it NOT ok to show them the polite way to macro when you KNOW they are going to anyway? How does it hurt you to be nice instead of bitter?

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Show me where someone was attacked here for asking for an ATK macro, because in a year and a half I have NEVER seen it happen. I've rolled my eyes and typed out help to people I knew were making buffbots, when they didn't specifically mention AFKing in their post. I've closed my eyes and ignored people from my server that I knew were permanantly AFK for the sake of not starting arguments. The ONLY people who are turned away here are those who both ask specifically for AFK macros and do it in such a way as to make it obvious there is no explaining to them. AFKing is not an "interest in the profession," buffbotting is not an "interest in the profession." There is no "polite" way to AFK, the very act has nearly destroyed everything about entertaining. If you fall into that category, I'm sorry, but we do not support AFK here.

Providing the information when someone says they are going to use it to AFK makes it seem like we don't care if they AFK. Yeah, we can say "but pretty please with a cherry on top don't use it to AFK!" Actually we DO say that -- in threads where people just ask for info on how to dance, or for "a dance macro." But as Freya mentioned, we have all learned harsh lessons both here and in game trying to change peoples' minds about AFKing. It doesn't end happy and if you think the negativity of ignoring them is too much you sure wouldn't be able to handle 10 threads of why someone feels its their right to level/heal/buff/whatever unattended regardless of who it hurts.

If we accept the complete automation of the profession here and publicly train people to automate instead of learning how to play, then entertaining will be truly dead. There has to be a line where we all make our stand, our "You shall not pass," and this forum is it.

The day people freely instruct how to AFK through this forum is the day entertaing dies.

Message Edited by Doriana on 01-01-2005 10:07 PM

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Else-Whira wrote:
The bully the correspondents, they bully anyone new who tries to post here and they bully anyone that does not and will not agree 100% that the game is completely awful and that we should burn the makers at the stake for daring to leave this profession in the game in any state less exactly the way they want it.

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"If you can't deal with the fact that this community will never support AFK dispensing of game mechanics that are supposed to be dispensed only by players and not NPCs, perhaps that's for the best then."

EXCUSE ME!! Who the hell said I want AFK buffing machines? This is exactly what I am talking about. All I am asking is that the "official" and "stickied" threads not be nasty arguments from anyone to anyone about anyone pro or con!

I never said you couldn't post or rant or rave or whatever it is you want to do, I just don't want every new player and person to this profession to see THAT as what and who we are.

As far as this place always being a happy happy joy joy positive place... You are crazy! It has always been nasty here. It started with nastiness from the puritanical holy rollers being down on us flirty types, then it became the socializer "we don't want any changes to dance at all" vs the gamer "please add some content" and finally it has become the forum regulars vs anyone that dares say anything at all other than "lets start a riot to get all AFK removed!"

Look at what I am asking here... Seriously, and then look at the responses that are posted to it. Draw your own conclusions.

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Else-Whira wrote:
Look at what I am asking here... Seriously, and then look at the responses that are posted to it. Draw your own conclusions.

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All I see is you complaining because we refuse to give macros to people who come here asking them and stating up front that they are for AFKing? I asked you to give me one negative thread started by a forum regular.. Just one.. ? I seriously don't see what your problem is. People bring us negativity and we have to find a way to deal with it.

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Doriana wrote:
All I see is you complaining because we refuse to give macros to people who come here asking them and stating up front that they are for AFKing? I asked you to give me one negative thread started by a forum regular.. Just one.. ? I seriously don't see what your problem is. People bring us negativity and we have to find a way to deal with it.

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Here's one; Thread

It's stickied to the top of the forum so that it is one of the first posts that anyone new to the forum will read.

I start a thread asking for a positive outlook and am met with harsh replys and essays on why I am a terrible person for wanting AFK buff bots and macros. I NEVER EVEN SAID THOSE THINGS!!!!!!

Geez, Else. How can you come here and title a thread with a reference to the "hen house" and claim to be Ms. Positivity? You're coming off like the shrill one here.

I understand your point, but you're not making it very effectively. Insulting people has a way of doing that - making your pleas for positive interaction ring hollow.