Dancer Archive

Euclase,

The problem with being on a crusade is that one can become... overzealous.

As I said early on and as I think you'll read in several messages, you'll find many entertainers very sympathetic with the "get off your lazy butts and entertain!" spirit. The best entertainers I've met do. I love watching them as much as entertaining with them.

It's just, as has been mentioned, that you transform our profession into a series of emotes (what are dance flourishes except elaborate emotes, after all?). And it is that. Those emotes help give "flesh" to the entertainment part. They give us a visual support.

But it can also be complemented with something else, if you want it to be. I agree with the posters who say that the investment of those skill points that give you the full range of emotes to pick from (which in turn you can use to put on better shows for your audience) can and should allow us to function within the game as well. This is the make a living part. I'm sure that you can accept that, just like you don't mind ID'ing or surveying to make credits, others won't mind buffing (and actually might prefer it because it stays within the circle of their favourite profession) but have to deal with those abusing the system. Again, it's all a matter of choice. But it's one area where the ill effects of buffbots (and yes SOE is a culprit here too for not taking more decisive action) reduce the viability of that choice.

As has been said, if you choose to forego that part of the game in your playstyle, it is a fine choice. Personally, I lean more that way too. But you shouldn't tell people that they are not real entertainers if they want to use full range of what the entertainer professions can offer. It is everyone's choice to make.

So sure, we must make more of an effort to make people appreciate the entertainment part of the profession. But it's not the only issue with the _profession_ (as opposed to playstyle).

And while you seem to have ignored this in some previous posts, I (and others) hold those views while loving entertainment pretty much for the sake of entertainment. That's what I do night after night. I could be playing my Master Doc I guess and make credits buffing people but I like to entertain much better.

I hope you're not taking those replies badly. It's all about healthy debate, not just whining or trying to contradict you. I think most of the feathers you ruffle are because you seem to reduce the profession to the playstyle you enjoy and others argue for looking at a larger picture. But I'm still sympathetic to the premise.

[Edit: Silly typo]

Message Edited by Wendelius on 07-29-2004 01:58 PM

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IrinaStarsinger wrote:

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• Engaging enjoyable game play through game mechanics.


• A valuable,tradable(and profitable)commodity for the game economy.


• New content added to keep the interest of long term players.

Right now mind healing entertainer professions have none of these elements. That is the problem. RP, social atmosphere can be acomplished simply with the title and clever use of game emotes. The profession... The skill point investment and place in the game economy are in dire straights and nothing is being done to stop it.

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IrinaStarsinger wrote:

So lets QUIT fighting the wrong enemy. We DONT exist to give buffs and heal BF. We EXIST as a profession, if we want to exist at all, as Entertainers. If we Abandon our goal to BE Entertainers then I have to agree that the entire Profession should be dropped form the game.

And to those that yell at me that buffs are what help us make our living.... well as for ME.... I'M a good enough entertainer that I will make MY tips by Entertaining. If I cant make enough then its MY skill as an entertainer thats at fault. Its MY skill as an entertainer that needs to be looked at.

The time's come to STOP blaming our problems on buffbots and AFK performers and start looking at where the problem REALLY lies... We've STOPPED entertaining people and replaced that with shrill cries to ban buffbots and AFK performers. We're fighting the wrong enemy people!!!!!

We dont HAVE to stay in the Cantinas. By forgetting about BF healing and buffs, that frees us to perform ANYWHERE, ANYTIME we want to.

As for me... I'm abandining the Cantinas for the most part. Im going to ENTERTAIN. Wherever I happen to be and wherever I happen to find an audience I think might enjoy it.

Its not the buffbots you have to compete with for tips.... Its ME.

Cause I'm an Entertainer!

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Panthu wrote:

Euclase, you can do what you are describing with out any investment in the Entertainer or Dancer tree. You can do this version of "entertaining" with the /dance emote.

At the very least, there is no reason for you to be a Master Dancer in this game. I have a few chars I play this way too, they are Dancer Dabblers and tend to mostly go up the Knowledge line for the Dances. *shrug*

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Investments, Panthu? Maybe you should become the merchant correspondent.

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 07-29-2004 12:39 PM

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PoetDancer wrote:

And I resent the fact that our dancer corr is recommending that players who do not ascribe to what Euclase is offering should have no business being a master dancer. We need to encourage the variety of philosophies and techniques here that makes our class so rich, and not discurage ANYONE from becomming a master dancer (except buffing alts, but they aren't real people anyway).

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 07-29-2004 12:39 PM

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I think you missed the point. Panthu was stating that the only benefit one gains from much of the Dancer skill tree is Mind enhancement, BF healing and wound healing. If the only thing we wanted to do in our profession was to entertain people, then why would you need to climb up the BF Healing or the Wound Healingtrees?

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IrinaStarsinger wrote:

But you miss ONE essential point... The Buffbots and AFK BF healers have ONE limitation that hey cant overcome.. THEY are chained to the cantinas... As an Entertainer... I'm NOT... I can entertain ANYWHERE I find people.

That gives ME an advantage over them that THEY can overcome and with which they cannot compete. So let them have the cantinas... That limits THEM to a tiny area from which they cannot stray... I can perform anywhere. And I'm Going to.

True enough, but you've just handed our professions' benefits to the game's community to people who don't even play the game and insult the very thing you're trying to encourage. Let them have the cantinas? That's supposed to be our turf. Without an active contribution to the game economy and playability, our professions will fail.

As far as money. Few of us.. even in the old days relied totally on Dancing or Playing to finance our life. I do ID.. Back then I also did surveying and sold resource WPs to people who wanted to set up harvs to save them the surveying time. At other timesI ran missions and gathered hides. I did lots of things just like moss entertainers in r/l do.

In that other world we have to live in when we're not here few entertainers can entertain full time. Only a fortunate few. Most susidize their entertaining by washing dishes or woking in stop and robs... My wife Cailet... in /rl she's a singer and right now is in Seattle performing.. But she makes her Other living teaching programming. She's STILL an entertainer. Years ago I used to Dance Disco Competitively. I DIDNT make my living at it but I won a lot of trophies.

Saying you cant make a Living as an entertainer without buffing is begging the question...

Do you practice Dance or Music to make a Living or do you do it becasue you Love Entertaining?

I fail to see the problem with doing what you love for a living and loving what you do. Isn't that what everyone wantsin a job? Teachers here in the US make very little. Policemen and firemen don't get paid a whole lot. But most of them love their jobs and the roles they play in the community. Of course, they'll fully admit they deserve more pay for what they do. Does their desire to make more money cause them to all become lawyers and doctors? No. Some might, but many will do what they love and make less money - because they love what they do. But they most certainly would NOT do what they do for absolutely no financial compensation. Bills need to get paid, life costs money. Sure,teachers love teaching. But they also teach to support themselves. And in this game, having some credits opens a world of possibilities for gameplay.

If its the former.. then you should become an Architect or Tailor.. If its the latter, then the question is meaningless in the first place.

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Message Edited by PoetDancer on 07-29-2004 12:55 PM

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PoetDancer wrote:

Quix'Otic, it is to give more of a reason for patrons to come to us, granted. But these things alone have nothing to do with why they tip us. A dancer with Basic 2 and a ton of developed personality can still outbank a boorish master dancer. I still did it when levelling slowly on Bria. In fact, I'm convinced the only thing that keeps boorish master dancers in play is the /setperform and group authorized buff. No wonder there are so many boring bots today. You don't need to work very hard to "one up" a hard working and ambitious novice when you can double a patron's /watch effect simply through a simple and boring /invite command.

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 07-29-2004 12:55 PM

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I don't see where in the original post money was mentinoned. Panthu's point was that without healing BF or wounds or enhancing then there is no need to go up those skill trees and therefore no need to become a master dancer. That's the comment I was referring to - you accused Panthu of turning people away from becoming Master Dancer's when in fact she was just pointing out that if one does not care about healing then one does not need to become a master dancer.

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PoetDancer wrote:

And I resent the fact that our dancer corr is recommending that players who do not ascribe to what Euclase is offering should have no business being a master dancer. We need to encourage the variety of philosophies and techniques here that makes our class so rich, and not discurage ANYONE from becomming a master dancer (except buffing alts, but they aren't real people anyway).

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No, I'm afraid you've misunderstood... I'm saying the same thing you do all the time about not needing to be a Master Dancer to be a great "Entertainer" in this way.

I defend all ways to play a Dancer... at any level and in any way. Be it RP, Social, Healer, Buffer, Event Planner, just self healing.... whatever. It's all valid to me and I like a healthy diversity for us.

I am even a great cheerleader and posted my own call for the end of the AFK vs ATK threads in our forums months ago. However, whileI do try to foster a happy environment in this forum, I don't like the idea of trying to hush people up on issues they feel are important, even if I don't agree with them.

... and frankly, I just don't know how anyone can ever react very well to being shouted at in all caps with a lot of attacking speech. *shrug* As I've said, I support her choice... I don't think I need to stop acting for all of the other Dancers and what they want just so I can be a good representative of Happy Dancers... I'm a pretty Happy Dancer most of the time myself. I just don't go blind to all of our issues or try to push others to forget theirs.

... oh, and the Merchant Corr Dances too, and he loves Starport Jams and Events.