Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
Hvzeda wrote:
So are you suggesting that afk people that shout out the waypoints of their vendorsin Coronet or Theed or elsewhere don't have a right? That is a form of AFK playstyle. Don't suggest barker droids because they are rarely used because they are essentially useless. As for wasting server bandwith, I can argue that cross server lots, ghost cities (pc and npc), and rude people are wasting server bandwith, but I am not to argue that they get removed.
Absolutely the people shouting waypoints and spam ads at the starport should be removed, its one of the things that myself, and many othersI know were very excited about when we heard of the idea of removing looping macros. It is not a form of any playstyle. Its taking up space and spamming spatial for personal gain. Sitting in the starprot afk all day spamming is no more a playstyle than a buffbot. Rude people are anoying yes... but if there not violating anything and there not afk, thenI have no problem avoiding them. A non afk goon thats goofing off will most likely go away when hes ignored and gets bored. A buffbot doesn't go away, a starport spammer doesn't go away. On the topic of cross server lots i believe it was actualy something they considered banning, but again theres not realy an efficient way to police it. And i for one wouldn't mind at all if they somehow banned cross server lot trading.
Griefing is violation of EULA.That is why/citywarn was removed. It was being used as a grief tool to control POIs andimportant hunting spots. As for separate rules, I think the rule I suggested applied towhere buffbots could perform, but since you strongly oppose buffbots, you assume I was giving player cities a different set of rules to which they could play from.
If you make it so bufbots can perform in a player city and not in a npc city that IS a different set of rules for a player city, Moreover there is absolutely no way to do this.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-13-2004 09:24 PM
Hvzeda wrote:
Well, the city I manage doesn't have a 23/7 entertainer or doc. Have you tried to recruit people to a player city? Easier said than done. Any mayor will tell you there is no incentive for people to move to player cities. If you have a research center in you city, I can use those benefits it provides and I don't be a resident. I pay the same shuttlefee that residents do. I can clone there for the same cost. I can get all the benefits and never have to pay any taxes to support the city. Park my house outside your city limits and reap the benefits. I have 5 such houses outside the city I manage and I'm not alone in this.
These are all flaws to the player city system that are in no way relavent to whether or not you should be able to park a buffbot in it.
On top of that, mayors have to be careful on who they allow to move in because there are some individuals that want to move in a start causingproblems and mayors are defenseless (politicians have discussed issues regarding this). Entertainer drops a large house declares and then the next day undeclares as a residents and tells the mayor you can't evict me, and I am using up valuable real estate in your city.
Entertainer drops large house? Yeah those evil entertainers, always out to grief the player cites.. ANY player in the game could do this to you it has nothing to do with recruiting entertainers. It's a fundimental flaw to the player city system of which there are many, that indeed should be fixed as well. However it still is not a valid justification for a buffbot.
On top of that, I don't see a major influx of new characters or accounts in SWG, meaning that most people are already established (and in other player cities and I refuse to stoop to the level of stealing residents from another player city because I didn't like it when another city attempted that on me). Some entertainers rather work out of a npc city and have their house nearby, not in a player city. If you could have active live entertainers and medics/dfocs 23/7 in our city, I would be one very happy mayor.
Wheres the place that you find out all this demographic information on how many new players are joining? As far as i knew soe isn't giving that information out. If i go to mos eisleyI usualy see a ton of new players. and i frequently see people at the starports looking for a guild or city to take them in.
You are never going to see the kind of population in this game to have 23 hour a day live entertainer or medic coverage in every player city, the game world is to vast and the player cities are too numerous. The fact that you cant have 23 hour a day coverage is not justification to ruin someones gameplay by keeping afk bots.
Hvzeda wrote:
Dreamland
Separate rules (or abilities) do exist for player cities. Can you get banned at a npc city? Can you be prevented using the cloning facility at a npc city? Can the shuttlefee in npc cities change over night? Do you pay a tax on using a garage in a player city? Answer is no, but the answer is yes for player cities. And with the GCW revamp coming, one of the proposed ideas for player cities (a separate rule) it to allow factional warn if a player city is factional (neutral cities won't get this ability). So allowing buffbots to exist only in player cities can be consider an ability (or a rule).
All those features have one thing in common.. They do not harm the gameplay of those outside the player city, nor do they offer anythingin such a manner that takes away from the abilities of live players. Having an afk buffbot in the player city DOES harm the gameplay of those outside of it, and it DOES take away from their abilities. This is UNACCEPTABLE. That is why citywarn was taken away as you say, because it was being used to harm the gameplay of other people.
FYI, there are some politicians that have suggested an idea for player cities to have the ability to place npc medics and entertainers that would heal people for a set cost established by the mayor of that city.Funny thing, I didn't see much complaint about this (though if memory server me correctly, it didn't get alot or responses but it did get a few favorably responses).
And i completely disagree with this again because it is taking the abilitys of a class away from them. Taking the ability to repair a swoop does not take anything from a player, it instead gives something to the residents of the city.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-13-2004 09:45 PM
Oqua wrote:
Wow...
Luciee, your experience seems so much like mine when I first decided on being a dancer. *warm smile* Well put, and quite lovely to read your experiences.
On another note, I am not going to argue with you Kyrie about things. I am not going to try and show you that yes, your pro afk stance is one side of looking at things...thats fine. I know you say you are anti afk for the most part, but I sort of doubt it at this point...and again, thats fine. Too each their own I always say.
I'm more anti-buffbot than afk, but would like to move the afk somewhere else and allow them to perform (thou I would prefer they be atk, but those reasons could only exist in a perfect world).
I would like to point out two things to you though. Two fallacies that you seem to be perpetuating in your posts here and more then not with whomever you speak with:
1) First, I don't see how a crafter would be upset that bots and zombies might be taken out. Last I heard they weren't removing macros...just going to try to make it so you can't loop one nonstop and have unattended game play out the wazoo. How on earth would a crafter be able to use that anyways? I craft..quite extensivly...as does my husband ..and I don't think we have ever used a macro like that. *confuzzled look*
As far as I know, crafters don't care much for the bots and zombies. I do know that some combat people do rely on them during the desolate time of the server.
You can loop a crafting macro, but you can't be afk since you have to be at the computer to click on the resources. Of course, you can't do any experimentation with that macro. I've heard (but never seen) a macro that crafting can be done afk. /shrug
2) Second, why do you think an entertainer has to be interested in Roleplay only? I don't roleplay for the most part. I know some do and thats fine and dandy...but I don't. What you see is what you get. I am married in game to the man I am with in RL. I am a dancer, I am kind to the patrons but not overly flirtatious nor solicitous (you would be surprised how some just like you saying hello to them or answering when they speak to you). I also am a crafter...I am a hunter...I am a jedi...I am a doctor...I am an image designer....I am a caring friend. I PvP and PvE alot....I also am quite active as your neighborhood Imperial. I am all these things. *warm smile* So why on earth would you want to pigeon hole those of us who like and take part in each and every aspect this wonderful game has to offer? Dancer's have more to them then one dimension you know. I know I am not the only one out there like this either.
*looks for the comment I made that an entertainer has to be interested in Roleplay only*
I roleplay (or did) but the lack of or interesting way people define roleplay generally leaves me away from it. I never pigeon-holed a dancer and never stated dancers are one dimension, but there are people that probably see dancer's one dimensional. I can't believe how many people are upset that I can't give them a musician buff because I'm a dancer.
As my husband so eloquently put it before, this game is a MMO. Interdependency is a huge part in the appeal of these games.
Too bad there aren't enough people that agree or play by that.
All we want is what we thought we were getting in the onset of the game (before buffs came out and people got spoiled..yes I say spoiled. You may not like the reality of the situation, but why sugar coat it?). We want to enjoy this CLASS offered in the game. We aren't ruining anything for anyone by wanting that...if we were you would have heard arguments about it during the first month or so of gameplay. But did you? Uh, no. And why is that? Ahhhh yes...no mindbuffs. *small smile*
Agree that buffs spoiled people, but they are here to stay. What will happen in the GCW revamp is anyone's idea about it.
Actually I heard arguments and complaints against afk dancers in the first month in the game from other dancers in the game.
PoetDancer wrote:
Yes, many servers are desolate. Why?
--Too many people come in to the cantina and don't tip the people there. Or if they do tip, they tip the one they /watch and forget all the others.
--Too many people have looked the other way when people said abusive things to dancers.
--Too many people have said "thank you" to unattended buffbots right in front of live entertainers trying to do their thing. Why else would they say hello to a vacant character in open spatial if not to make live ents feel its futile?
--Too many people use buffbots and the prevalence of them to justify not tipping entertainers at all.
--Too many people have not created opportunities for entertainers on your servers.
...And as a result, they are all gone from your server. Now, you have to put all of your trust in some individual's vacant second instance to get what you need. Let's just hope the owners of the unattended characters do notdecide he or she doesn't like you.
...And you blame US for this?
We would have ZERO difficulty with unattended characters IF players still made sure to take care of us and look out for us in the cantinas. But instead, they have used the prevalence of unattended entertainment to justify to themselves why they need not bother.
And now your servers are suffering the consequences. You be surprised, it isn't much of a problem on Sunrunner. If buffbots exists in such great numbers, I must be blind. I've seen only 2 buffbots in the cantina (Coronent and Dantooine). And when I see a buffbot, I place myself near the buffbot and I can get more business than she does since I time her spam and hit my little funny comment macro about her. And believe me. ? Even with unattendence at the keys, you'll still have the same problems as now. If not new, different, and insurmountable ones.HERE is what the future looks like in a world of bots. Its going to happen. Mark my words. And when we are gone, they'll be nobody to save you from it.
Servers are desolate because:
- Players moved to other games
- Game breaking bugs were too much and players left
- What was promised has not been delivered (talk to your local smuggler), people left
- People got burned out in the game and left
- People believed that TH and others lied to them and left
PoetDancer, those great examples you provided help to explain a loss of entertainers on servers but not desolate servers (though it could drive some people out of the game). Also you need to add some people got bored with the entertainer profession and moved on to something else.
And I never blamed you or anyone here in the forum. Please take a step back. If I've blamed anyone, it has been the devs for not doing anything in the first place and the holo-grind system for jedi they created.
Message Edited by Hvzeda on 09-13-2004 10:30 PM
I have posted many times I like to remove buffbot. B canl someone can provide me with a reasonable solution for those players that play during off-hours of how they can get buffs, please do so.
Dreamland wrote:
Hvzeda wrote:
Well, the city I manage doesn't have a 23/7 entertainer or doc. Have you tried to recruit people to a player city? Easier said than done. Any mayor will tell you there is no incentive for people to move to player cities. If you have a research center in you city, I can use those benefits it provides and I don't be a resident. I pay the same shuttlefee that residents do. I can clone there for the same cost. I can get all the benefits and never have to pay any taxes to support the city. Park my house outside your city limits and reap the benefits. I have 5 such houses outside the city I manage and I'm not alone in this.
These are all flaws to the player city system that are in no way relavent to whether or not you should be able to park a buffbot in it.
But the problem is becoming for mayors (jeez, isn't this the dancer forum) is to trying to get people away from npc cities. Now, I'm not saying player cities get a buffbot (and when did this start that I have to defend buffbots?) but I was looking out for other players in the gamed. Heaven forbid I think of others. No matter which side I take on this, I am damned either way. I was just looking at possible solution of removing buffbots from npc cantinas, but I guess I no longer have merit here.
On top of that, mayors have to be careful on who they allow to move in because there are some individuals that want to move in a start causingproblems and mayors are defenseless (politicians have discussed issues regarding this). Entertainer drops a large house declares and then the next day undeclares as a residents and tells the mayor you can't evict me, and I am using up valuable real estate in your city.
Entertainer drops large house? Yeah those evil entertainers, always out to grief the player cites.. ANY player in the game could do this to you it has nothing to do with recruiting entertainers. It's a fundimental flaw to the player city system of which there are many, that indeed should be fixed as well. However it still is not a valid justification for a buffbot.
I only use entertainer because it was something I heard from a mayor and they wanted to know what they could do about. Sorry if I offended you with the choice of using that profession.
On top of that, I don't see a major influx of new characters or accounts in SWG, meaning that most people are already established (and in other player cities and I refuse to stoop to the level of stealing residents from another player city because I didn't like it when another city attempted that on me). Some entertainers rather work out of a npc city and have their house nearby, not in a player city. If you could have active live entertainers and medics/dfocs 23/7 in our city, I would be one very happy mayor.
Wheres the place that you find out all this demographic information on how many new players are joining? As far as i knew soe isn't giving that information out. If i go to mos eisleyI usualy see a ton of new players. and i frequently see people at the starports looking for a guild or city to take them in.
You are assuming those new players are new accounts. If SWG was booming with new accounts, why has they give people 14 free days to play SWG TWICE. I would have to look for that data of MMORPG but SWG was already in a decline when I saw that data in March or April. Things could have changed between now and then but with the release of CoH and the future release of WoW (who ended their stress test two days ago) and EQII, the future looks bleak, but that does not mean if will be going for a few more years.
You are never going to see the kind of population in this game to have 23 hour a day live entertainer or medic coverage in every player city, the game world is to vast and the player cities are too numerous. The fact that you cant have 23 hour a day coverage is not justification to ruin someones gameplay by keeping afk bots.
Agreed, but what about those people trying to enjoy the game in those off-hours, or are they irrelevant to your views?
Hvzeda wrote:
I have posted many times I like to remove buffbot. B canl someone can provide me with a reasonable solution for those players that play during off-hours of how they can get buffs, please do so.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-13-2004 10:57 PM
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-13-2004 11:00 PM
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-13-2004 11:20 PM
DarkY0da wrote:
Hmm what is this fabled off peak hours ? Is it EST PST GMT or some other time that I don't know what it is... because I can tell you my prime time for playing is from 12pm-5am EST. Now am I on those hours an only those hours every night ? Of course not. Some days I log in earlier. Others I log off early. And then some times I just get burned out on it all and don't log in for a week... /shrug
Each server is different. The more populated servers are more likely not to have off peak time or if they do, the players on during that time can equal the peak hours on other servers. Low populated servers will. I've played on Bria and i have no trouble find anyone. I've play on Valcyn and found only 2 people in Coronet one day.
I'm not going to argue about the need for buffs. I don't care what people want the buffs for because it is their character, not mine. I've even stated, let us remove buffs. But if people wantBF healingand afk entertainers are removed, what is the solution for them if there are no live entertainers? Pick up dancing and heal their own BF and mind wounds? Hell, I don't even know why I'm arguing this anymore. My head hurts and I'm going to bed.l
Dreamland wrote:
Hvzeda wrote:
I have posted many times I like to remove buffbot. B canl someone can provide me with a reasonable solution for those players that play during off-hours of how they can get buffs, please do so.
I don't believe players should be given any special concessions to get buffs during off hours. If anything i think all buffs doctor included should be drasticaly lowered. Buffs should be a slight edge in combat not something that makes you completely unstopable.
Hopefuly these issues are something the combatrevamp will adress head on. I know i know your going to say but the combat balance isnt in effect yet.... Well neither are the macro changes... The combat balance is scheduled for directly after jump to lightspeed, which according to eb games is scheduled for a october 21 release date or something around that time. I honestly doubt the macro changes would go into effect much sooner than or for that matter before the combat revamp.
If the macro change went in tomorrow i'd have absolutely no problem as a combat player in finding buffs during off hours. I often play till 3 am which is an hour before server shutdown and its not a problem. If i want to do missions i have Brandy and canapes which i can use to get mymind up to rediculous levels they shouldn't haveeven ever been able to get to. Before you even say it yes i play on the less populated servers, in fact i have a almost master bounty hunter on sunrunner that has in fact been to your town many times on the way to the squill cave.
The only possible concievable argument that mind buffs are even remotely neccessary is that they are needed for PVP... To which i still do not agree. If your on for pvp at these off peak hours the oponent is subject to the exact same restrictions that you are in finding buffs. your on even ground and therefore i see no reason to provide you with a automatic buff because its late. On a server like sunrunner it's just as hard to get a doctor buff at these kind of hours. The solution should not be unatended play. it should be to make buffs what they always should have been, a slight edge rather than god mode.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-13-2004 10:57 PM
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-13-2004 11:00 PM
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-13-2004 11:20 PM