Dancer Archive
Thread: Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose Sticky
Message Edited by Warryyr on 09-13-2004 09:44 AM
Oqua wrote:
What I hope (and again...I know I am probably dreaming) is for the devs and others to stick to their guns, and get rid of afk zombies and buffbots. They get rid of them, and let the entertainers do their job and rally to the cause so to speak (not being at the beck and call of people, but playing the entertainer class the way it is intended).
I hope that they get rid of it..and theyhave a sort of 'Field of Dreams' cantina/entertainer thing going: "If we get rid of them...they will come".
Just food for thought.
I agree.
I hope that the Devs give usa chance to win back our professions.
Given how long the Devs let us hang out in limboland, there area lot of folks who think that without buffbots, it's game over for them. Since the Devs have let this go so long, it might be best to offer those who want it some kind of alternative.
On the other hand, we can just say no and make live Entertainers the only option again. Either way, I'm playing at the keyboard haha.
rayill wrote:
Frankly, leaving buff bots in the game will do as much good as putting Character Builder terminals on every LIVE server.
Sure.I mean if we made it so the buffs weapons and armor from the character builder terminal were a weaker than thier counterparts from a live player. Wouldnt that be exactly the same thing that many of these buffbot owners have suguested for a "middle ground"? I mean we could take off the skill advancement and freecredits obviously and just have it so it hands out everything neccesary for pvp but at a lesser level than what you get from a live player delivering that service.
What do you think buffbot owners does this sound like a great idea or what!!!That way we can finaly just change the name to Star Wars: Counterstrike.
Dreamland wrote:
rayill wrote:
Frankly, leaving buff bots in the game will do as much good as putting Character Builder terminals on every LIVE server.
Sure.I mean if we made it so the buffs weapons and armor from the character builder terminal were a weaker than thier counterparts from a live player. Wouldnt that be exactly the same thing that many of these buffbot owners have suguested for a "middle ground"? I mean we could take off the skill advancement and freecredits obviously and just have it so it hands out everything neccesary for pvp but at a lesser level than what you get from a live player delivering that service.
What do you think buffbot owners does this sound like a great idea or what!!!That way we can finaly just change the name to Star Wars: Counterstrike.
Nacoa wrote:
Hvzeda wrote:
Nacoa wrote:
Just wondering: Why find a middle ground?
First because it hasn't been decided that buffbots are in violation of the EULA and since it isn't, we are going have to live with.
The point of this thread is for anti- and pro-buffbot players to make their case, which may possibly affect the devs decisions on what to do about them. So your premise that we just have to live with buffbots is false. One possible outcome is the devs modify the code to make buffbots stop working, and/or change the EULA to ban them.
Until they are removed, we have to live with them. I've even stated I don't like buffbots, but I have recognized by talking to people that they have actually begun to fill a void (regretfully). I'm not going to rehash how this void was created, but I know people who play at very odd times and have tried to befriend entertainers during the time period that they play and has been very unsuccessful. I have even stayed up later than I planned to on many nights to grant buff requests.
By at least trying to find a middle ground we are at least trying to solve this problem as adults.
Not all problems should be solved by compromise. Again, this example is far worse than a buffbot, but we shouldn't compormise with a serial killer because he agrees to only kill 10 people, even if we're all adults.
I think a serial killer causes much more harm to society than a buffbot. Apples and oranges here.
Should we find a middle ground between the credit dupers and the non-dupers? I'm not saying buffbots are as bad, but why should there be a middle ground between "players" that damage the game and ones that don't? Why should SOE should say "Ok, you can damage the game some"?
Credit duping is violation of EULA.
You're assuming the EULA can't and won't ever change. The point of this discussion is to evaluate if it should change, if game code should change, and so on.
I never assume. At that point in time, credit duping is a violation of the EULA. If the code can be change without causing any bugs, I'm for it.
The pro-buffbot argument seems to always be about availability. I'm well aware of this, because I used to run a buffbot, due to the same availability problems. Then the entertainers on all of the servers stepped up to try and address that problem by creating an entertainer channel on each server so that people looking for a buff can find it.
Nice idea about an entertainer channel. We've have had one on Sunrunner for about 5, maybe 6 weeks. It has failed. When I ask patrons, the common response "I don't have time to look." If that is the mentality of the patrons, then we as live entertainers are in trouble.
They don't take the time because buffbots exist. In a game without buffbots, the players will need an easy and fast way to find entertainers, which the entertainer channel will do. My argument is not that it works perfectly today, but that the entertainer channel can and often does solve the availibility issue.
The entertainer channel could work in the case you are stating, but only if people are aware of it. I had promoted it in my city and tried to get other mayors to do the same, but a few have balked on promoting it. It is their right.
If you had read my entire post and digested it without using any biased views, you would have seen I had addressed the issue of afk performers and buffbots in npc cities, and basically that is what almost all the live entertainers are complaining about.
I did read your post. Entertainers are complaining about buffbots, period. Place them on the far NW corner of Yavin, and I'll still complain about them. Parking your buffbot in an NPC cantina is a worse abouse.
And you're ignoring the main question of my post: Why should there be a compromise? What is the reason to not modify the game/EULA to remove buffbots?
If the devs can remove buffbots without causing any bugs in process, I would be for it, but I honestly think they can. Since I believe that it may not be able to do, then I need to look at something else, a middle ground. But it has even been pointed out there are problems with implementing some of those middle ground issues.
If a player cities wants to have to afk entertainers and buffbots, shouldn't they be allowed?
No. Even though the buffbot is now in the player city, they're still taking the game away from live entertainers. If you're worried about 23/7 entertainer coverage in your city, you need to recruit more entertainers. Besides, all you're really doing is making another attempt to solve the availability problem, which I feel will not really be an issue. After all, your city probably doesn't have doc buffs available 23/7.
Well, the city I manage doesn't have a 23/7 entertainer or doc. Have you tried to recruit people to a player city? Easier said than done. Any mayor will tell you there is no incentive for people to move to player cities. If you have a research center in you city, I can use those benefits it provides and I don't be a resident. I pay the same shuttlefee that residents do. I can clone there for the same cost. I can get all the benefits and never have to pay any taxes to support the city. Park my house outside your city limits and reap the benefits. I have 5 such houses outside the city I manage and I'm not alone in this.
On top of that, mayors have to be careful on who they allow to move in because there are some individuals that want to move in a start causingproblems and mayors are defenseless (politicians have discussed issues regarding this). Entertainer drops a large house declares and then the next day undeclares as a residents and tells the mayor you can't evict me, and I am using up valuable real estate in your city.
On top of that, I don't see a major influx of new characters or accounts in SWG, meaning that most people are already established (and in other player cities and I refuse to stoop to the level of stealing residents from another player city because I didn't like it when another city attempted that on me). Some entertainers rather work out of a npc city and have their house nearby, not in a player city. If you could have active live entertainers and medics/dfocs 23/7 in our city, I would be one very happy mayor.
Dreamland wrote:
Hvzeda wrote:
And no,I do not think you should have a right to play unatended in your player city regardless of how much time you put into creating it, your still in the same game world as us and should be subject to the same restrictions as every other player in the game. As long as that possibility to be a buffbot exists they are a problem no matter where they are.
So, I see you are trying to force your game playon others. So your $15 per month is worth more than others. So much for allow players to design their own city.
Long term AFK play is NOT a playstyle. It is not something that anyone should be able to do in this game period. The developers agree. It is flat out wrong and bad for the game wherever it is happening because even if there is noone there to even set eyes on you you are still wasting server bandwith being connected when you should not be able to.
So are you suggesting that afk people that shout out the waypoints of their vendorsin Coronet or Theed or elsewhere don't have a right? That is a form of AFK playstyle. Don't suggest barker droids because they are rarely used because they are essentially useless. As for wasting server bandwith, I can argue that cross server lots, ghost cities (pc and npc), and rude people are wasting server bandwith, but I am not to argue that they get removed.
If i dont have a right to afk in theed, you dont have a right to afk in your city. If i dont have a right to grief players in theed. You don't have a right to grief players in your city. You can not have separate rules for a player city than you do for the rest of the server, not when the rest of the server can come visit your player city whenever they like.
Griefing is violation of EULA.That is why/citywarn was removed. It was being used as a grief tool to control POIs andimportant hunting spots. As for separate rules, I think the rule I suggested applied towhere buffbots could perform, but since you strongly oppose buffbots, you assume I was giving player cities a different set of rules to which they could play from.
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-12-2004 07:08 PM
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-12-2004 07:09 PM
Message Edited by Dreamland on 09-12-2004 07:14 PM
Taewyn wrote:
I would argue to the contrary....
Entertainers have a very very hard time making any money because the service they provide has been "flooded" through the economy.....As with any good economy, supply and demand of course takes its effect here..
I don't think our services are "flooded." I had a line of 5 people last night wanting buffs and I had one person that got upset because they were fifth in line and left stating "I will just use brandy and arisha." In a four hour time period I buffed about 20 people. Day before, I competed against a buffbot and I wasgetting more business than she was. Conversing with the patrons goes a long way. Flirting even gets your more business.
There is enough "demand" for doc buffs that they can chage 12k a pop for them....What if there was even more of a demand for entertainer buffs?
On Sunrunner, I've seen doc buffs go as high as 30k. Someone thought they heard ithit 40k, but I never say that to verify it. I'm not sure I want to be in demand more in doing buffs. That is alot of accarragm.
However, in the end, the Entertainers really are not about making money...They are a class the should be providing a role in the game (as the healer), during this role they should be doing what has attracted most entertainers to this skill set, which is heavy social interaction and that is the thing that will be helped by this....
Agreed, it is not about making money, but at the same time, if you want some of those interesting looted items, it will cost money and very few entertainers could afford them on tips alone unless you have a combat profession with your entertainer profession. That is the one reason I picked up a combat profession to master and I have never looted anything that great (except I have completed all but the blue woven rug).
As for combat types being "mad" at entertainers......I have no doubt, in fact I expect a good many people to quit when the CB/Recurisve macro changes go live...However, as I said, most of these people were the ones who were just mindlessly grinding for Jedi because there was litterally "nothing" left for them in game, the only thing this will do is shave off about 3 months worth of subscription time.
And we can add some crafters to that because I know a few that will quit. As for the ones grinding jedi, the crafters that I know that will quit were never grinders, but as for combat, I know of three (yea, not much) that will quit if it goes live because their RL crafting friend will quit. I don't think many people will leave over all compare to other issues.
However, the good side is that "new" players will be drawn moreinto the interactionswithin the game andbecause of which therewillbe a slow down of the over-all turn over in the game.....We know this because of the first month or two of playing, when Dancers used to be ATK all the time. Most of the guilds on my server were formed in cantinas by dancers or organized by dancers, the social hub of SWG actually "worked".
Being guildless, I have a different perspective. The core group of residents in our town have been people I met in the Mos Espa cantina before it became a ghost town. I hope you are right with 'new' players but by the time any of this gets resolved, I fear it will be too late if it isn't already.
So in the end, its not just about "play mentality" (like RP vs non RP) its about "game" mentality...Many of these grinders have a single player mentality and nothing is going to stop them from leaving once they have done "everything" (which for most is grinding jedi). However, something *can* be done to secure new "mmo" type players now, but it has to be done *now*, before the influx of new players with JTL (or directly afterwords)...
It is all about mentality. If the grinders leave, servers will be less populated and this in turn can create a domino effect and having more people to leave that server for another or to another game.The problem with JTL is that it is going to bring an entire new group of players in the game - the 'twitch' player. And from my experience with them, for the most part, they are very much nonRP. I honestly would like to see specific servers created for a specific purpose (RP, PvP, GCW, Jedi, etc) and allow players to moved their characters for free (and all items also devs) to one of these specific server. At least, we could be on a server in which the playstyle is suitable for our own style.
Message Edited by Taewyn on 09-12-2004 07:23 PM
Killing critters is a way to make some credits to buy my dancer clothes.