Dancer Archive

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Taewyn wrote:

You can't force people to socially interact if they don't want to.

Ahh...But you can...EQ's 450k suscribers are a testement to that.....

But subscriptions and active accounts has been dropping.

The diffrence is the type of social interaction that is forced....EQ forces people to "group" to do just about anything...Any Mobs that give exp (especially at later levels) need a group to defeat....Solo play is virtually impossible for all but 3 or 4 classes (and even those classes gain exp/loot much much better when grouped).

Some may see this as harsh (I do, which is why I left EQ), However, It does *work*....

I have 2 years in EQ and this is what caused me to leave. I was in a small guild, in fact the guild leader. When I left, the large guilds began to controlthe hot spots. Small guilds didn't have a chance. So to even advance you needed a very close knit guild or a very large guild with members you could group with to get XP. I have numerous occasions in Kael after I have organized a raid with 5 more guild members only to be chased out by two guild doing a raid with around 40+.

SWG takes a different aproach....The point of social interaction is not the "common group" (ie the small group groups that exp/run missions), it is supposed to be "raid grouping" with 10+ people(Night sisters ect, were raid content) and healing/cantina's.....

But the holo-grind and the new force experience conversion has made this game XP run missions. Why are entertainers looking for a group and then go afk. For XP. And if you are a live entertainer that allows an AFK entertainer to stay in your group, you are just encouraging the behavior we have been admonishing.

This form of "forced" social interaction was much muchless strict then EQ's "group or die" aproach and frankly it was what made this game apealing to me...

However, god mode has destroyed "raid grouping", which in turn has lead to the break up of many guilds (because people go to other games out of boredom) *and* buff bots have lead to the demise of the other type of interaction, healing...

With both types of interaction dead (strangely ironic it isby the same problem, buffs) the game on a whole is suffering...People are not forming the bonds or friendships that they should be and are actually doing something that should not be possible in an MMO...They are "beating the game"...And by beating, I am speaking of litterally destroying the game like reaching level 99 in a final fantasy game ....

But people have been trained since day one to beat the game. Wasn't that the purpose of games we were told? To win, to beat it, to finish it? We reward the beating of the game, not the journey in it, not to be immerse in it.

The two points of interaction must be brought back....Killing the buff bots is one of the fixes that is needed...Not to mention there are a ton of class issues behind the death of buff bots (such as helping the dancers regain their identity).

I honestly don't see the elimination of buffbots solving the entertainer profession. It is not a money making profession compared to what other professions can make. And with the price that look kit items are going for or skill enhancements tapes, entertainers generally can't afford it. How many entertainers could actually win an auction for a NS armband fromtips alone? The profession has wittle away for many reasons and this issue will only remove an aggrevation that live entertainers have, but doesn't solve our problems. Eliminating buffbots isn't going to change how people treat us or see us, in fact, it could encourage more rudeness from the combat professions because we destroyed their gameplay by whining about buffbots. All I want is to find some possible solution that makes each side at least content, but this seems it will be extremely hard.

Message Edited by Taewyn on 09-12-2004 01:56 PM

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Basically, games may change, but the mentality of most players won't. Too bad there isn't an official roleplaying server(s) that would have a different set of rule and official PVP server(s) where all combat profession had to be overt. People could get what they wanted by migrating to a server that fit their playing style.

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Hvzeda wrote:

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Aleyo wrote:
you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play.

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The macros being used is built in the game and not a program outside the game. I think this refers to something called 'third party macros." I could be wrong and I'm not a lawyer to interpret this. But if you are saying that the current ability in the game that allows macros to be used, then the developers are in violation of the this by allow it be built in the game. I think the key word in that statement is "other programs" meaning programs outside of the SWG programming.

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The word 'macros' is used without qualification there. And the fact that it's stated as "macros or other programs" would seem to imply to me that the word "macros" refers to in-game macros, whereas "other programs" (as distinguished from "macros" by the word "or") is used to refer to any non-swg program.
Pointing out that the developers are in violation of this is first of all moot, since the person that is forbidden from using or distributing such elements is "you" (the player). On the other hand, I agree that they made this a sticky issue by allowing them in the game, or certainly looping or long-length macros.
But not every use of the in-game macro system facilitates unattended play. A macro such as "/tt Hello %TT!;/hug;/tt Welcome to my home!" can hardly be argued to be a case of unattended play.
Having something in the game doesn't make it allowed, or right. If this were the case, there would be absolutely no need for Terms of Use, or EULAs, as you would not be able to do anything in the game that wasn't allowed. However, the Terms of Use are there, because the game is such an open-ended system, and not every rule that SOE wishes to impose on those using its game and servers can be enforced by game mechanics.

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Petal2004 wrote:

Try to find a buff on Endor, Dath or Yavin at 4am in the morning. You usually have to go back and try, yes try to find a buff in a large city.

I would imagine at 4am it would be pretty much a given that you'll need to look ina larger city for Entertainers. People sleep. Doesn't make much sense to even try finding a buffer on Endor, Dath, or Yavin. Heck, I play during "primetime" hours and sometimes it's hard finding anyone buffing there. The key is, befriend as many entertainers as you can, learn their hours of gameplay, and contact them if at all possible when they're online. Build a network of friends, it's surprisingly easy. One hint - try to go where the Entertainer is. A lot folks, for some reason, ask the Entertainer to go where they are. Typically you wouldn't ask a Doctor to come buff you. You'd go to them. Just a suggestion, take it as you will.

Now, most of the time, not always, those dancing are either afk exp grinding or maybe not able to buff.

My point being..NO I also do not like afk dancing in a cantina or buff bots in catinas. Buff bots (and I hate that name) do have a place in the outer rims. It provides a service..no more no less.

There very well may be a need for some alternative to live Entertainers during off-peak gameplay hours. But, the answer should NOT be AFK and macroing players! An in-game alternative should exist if anything- a money sink to the economy, perhaps. But an AFK and macroing player? That's unhealthy for the game, period. I fail to see how a service needed in-game justifies people not *really* playing the game, just sitting there and making a joke of the Entertainer professions. This should be something provided by the game, NOT by a botting player.

And when I am playing my CM/TKA I certainly appreciate not having to starport or shuttle everywhere looking for a mind buff. And yes, I tip, but have never been a big tipper even though I dance also.

Where exactly is everywhere? Off-peak times, hit the big cities. Coronet and Theed. And Theed Spaceport has no wait on travel. Where are you going - some player city in the middle of nowhere on Talus? Hit the two big cities, and if nothing can be found, use brandy and canape to compensate. I've fought many times without mind buffs and gotten by just fine with those. Good brandy gives you +800 to mind with 2 drinks for 1/2 hour, and canape can give you roughly +1200 Focus/Willpower for 10 minutes. With 33 filling Canape, you can pop another when you need it and work it out so that you're never without a nice Focus/Willpower buff.

You say you dance, too. If there's SUCH a MAD demand for Mind buffs, why not start buffing during the off-peak hours that you play? Do something about the lack of live Entertainment instead of just hitting a macro key.

I have left my dancer on for my late night friends, always grouped with them...so after the doc buffed them, she could give them a mind buff. Call her buff bot but it was between me and friends...not the entire galaxy.

Well, that was business your friends could have given to a live Entertainer. Instead, that person played away in a cantina and wondered why they bother playing a Master Dancer and Musician when no one comes into the cantina anyways. Then they logout for the night. Then an hour and a half later someone comes into the cantina and sees no one is buffing, and they run out to their favorite buffbot and wonder why no one is ever buffing in the cantina.

This problem should NOT be solved by bots. Bots are never good in a game. It's reducing Entertainers to a macro. That's not right. It's a horrible way for an active player in the game to be treated.

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Warryyr wrote:

There very well may be a need for some alternative to live Entertainers during off-peak gameplay hours. But, the answer should NOT be AFK and macroing players! An in-game alternative should exist if anything- a money sink to the economy, perhaps.

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Reachwind wrote:

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Warryyr wrote:

There very well may be a need for some alternative to live Entertainers during off-peak gameplay hours. But, the answer should NOT be AFK and macroing players! An in-game alternative should exist if anything- a money sink to the economy, perhaps.

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Let me address this point real quick.

One of the main things the AFK entertainer does is enable players to avoid picking up needed support skills. It lets people justify building templates that have combat only skills. In a working game system players on a SCS (single character server) have a combination of combat and support roles unless they are going to rely heavily on other players to be those support roles. If the players who operate the 'entertainer only' characters are not online at the time of day that you primarily play you should adjust your template accordingly. With 15 skill points spent you have the ability to heal all mind wounds and cure all battle fatigue.

The game is not designed around a single character being able to solo all content. It was meant to be played by groups.

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Reachwind wrote:

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Warryyr wrote:

OK, SORRY.

If you were referring to any of my posts, aside from a header i used for emphasis, I thought my font was the default size...

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It's default size... If I was half blind and needed four inch letters to be able to read.

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Wait - i'm still confused. What are you talking about?

Which of my posts in this thread has four inch letters, aside from headers which I've already stated I made bigger for emphasis. My posts are default size. What's the problem?

If you're talking about someone who quoted one of my previous posts, and made the font larger for my quote, sorry but I have no control over other's actions. I sure as hell would enjoy editing other people's posts, but it would pretty much negate the purpose of the forums entirely. My posts ARE default size, with very few exceptions. I fail to see why I got the attitude I did. Show me one of my posts (with OK SORRY and Droid Performance Modules as exceptions) that was not default size. Not others quoting me, but one of my posts.

Anyways, yes large text is annoying. However, I've never understoodwhy it invalidates anyone's opinion or makes it worthy of ignoring. Usually a friendly reminder that doing that doesn't help will break people of that habit.

Message Edited by Warryyr on 09-13-2004 08:35 AM

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Nacoa wrote:

You're assuming the EULA can't and won't ever change. The point of this discussion is to evaluate if it should change, if game code should change, and so on.

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Small note they have changed the EULA since the start of the game.

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Warryyr wrote:

True, however each player is welcome to choose the professions they wish. If the game is meant to be played by groups, and you recommend a person take up support skills, doesn't that make the person self-sufficient and not need a group? Doesn't that force a profession upon them that they might not want?

If they have combat skills, medic skills, and entertainer skills, why would they need a group?

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You see in the current system they are able to stack up combat skills giving themselves the ability to do combat alone. You may have heard the term "solo group"?

You can't master a combat elite, medic elite and an entertainer elite. There aren't enough skill points. A group of three people can cover that though.... One a master doc/combat, one a master dancer/combat and the last a master musician/combat would be able to buff all stats and still kick a ton of butt on most game content. However... They wouldn't all be able to log in and solo the game which is what the intention of the designers was.

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Warryyr wrote:

Wait - i'm still confused. What are you talking about?

Which of my posts in this thread has four inch letters, aside from headers which I've already stated I made bigger for emphasis. My posts are default size. What's the problem?

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Your droid idea that you reposted on a couple of threads is NOT default text. I understand tht you thought it was.... It however is not displayed that way.

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Reachwind wrote:

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Warryyr wrote:

Wait - i'm still confused. What are you talking about?

Which of my posts in this thread has four inch letters, aside from headers which I've already stated I made bigger for emphasis. My posts are default size. What's the problem?

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Your droid idea that you reposted on a couple of threads is NOT default text. I understand tht you thought it was.... It however is not displayed that way.

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Well, I've no idea how else I should interpret the forums aside from how I see them. It might be a lighter color. But the text itself looks to me to be the exact same height of yours below it.

If, in fact, to everyone else it looks gigantically large, I have no idea how that happened. To me, it looks like it's a lighter color, but still pretty much the same size as anyone else's usual font size.

I spent a lot of time thinking through that idea, and organizing the thoughts.

Glad it was completely disregarded due to something I can't see nor control - and due to the fact that to me, it looks like it's maybe a few millimeters larger than the font in your post immediately below it.

I'll not waste anymore of anyone's time in here.

Sorry if my posts are such an annoyance. That post, to me, looks lighter in color but the same size as anyone else's posts, aside from a header. It may be slightly larger, slightly, but it hardly looks 4 inches tall or exceptionally large. Sorry if this ends up 8 inches tall and 4 inches wide.

I really think the droid module idea just might help us all, but I'm not wasting my time or anyone else's time posting if no one's going to read them. I'll keep my ideas to myself.

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VoweDarkwave wrote:

blah blah blah

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