Dancer Archive

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PhoenixStar wrote:
There is simply no reason why there can't be a timer that will automatically boot afkers who are not at the keyboard for 30 minutes, it's already hard coded into the game, the only reason it's not working is because we have the option to turn it off.

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I'm afraid not. Leave it on. Run a looping macro that /blinks ever 5 minutes. You'll never auto-afk.

I've said this before, but it appears from this and a few other things that auto-afk and auto-logout are managed by the server. The macro engine is on the client. The server just sees this stream of commands coming from the client and assumes they're ATK. It has no way of knowing that the stream is coming from a macro instead of an ATK player.

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If you truly are a dancer or musician then you know what I'm talking about because it's impossible to run a flawless show without a recursive macro, if you're really doing it because you enjoy it and not just for exp.

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Sure it is. Write a longer macro.

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I can't believe people are agreeing with this quick fix that will only further break the game when there are already hard coded solutions WITHIN the game as it is.

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See above. Your solution is not within the game as it is.

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It's so simple and will solve the afk problem entirely.

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Except that even auto-afk players can give a buff, heal BF, sample resources, kill and loot meatlumps, camp caves, and so on. Or do you mean for your solution to include disabling more commands while AFK?

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If you disagree with that then you cannot tell me you're trying to help the game because that's not helping anyone who's learned how to use macros to better their character and playing time.

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Sure it is. It's helping them by actually providing a game for them to play. Now, if you don't like the game the devs have set up for you to play without macroing all night, that's a different issue.

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I get so much more done with macros than I can without, and there's no reason to remove the loop at all.

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And here we go. The reason you want macros to stay looping is removing them makes the game harder for you. Shouldn't you be relishing the challenge? You've "beaten" this part of the game by using looping macros. How about working towards becoming a better player and figure out how to do it without them?

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Nacoa wrote:

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PhoenixStar wrote:
There is simply no reason why there can't be a timer that will automatically boot afkers who are not at the keyboard for 30 minutes, it's already hard coded into the game, the only reason it's not working is because we have the option to turn it off.

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I'm afraid not. Leave it on. Run a looping macro that /blinks ever 5 minutes. You'll never auto-afk.

I've said this before, but it appears from this and a few other things that auto-afk and auto-logout are managed by the server. The macro engine is on the client. The server just sees this stream of commands coming from the client and assumes they're ATK. It has no way of knowing that the stream is coming from a macro instead of an ATK player.

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Message Edited by PhoenixStar on 08-04-2004 08:01 PM

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CodeBreaker007 wrote:

Some of these replys are kinda daft, as your not reading the posts correctly and replying twisting what is being said, my last post was in reply to others.

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Feel free to highlight where I'm twisting your meaning.

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1: I am using a macro for dancing while at work and in bed, have you a problem with that?

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Yep. Unattended play is a "bad thing". Working your way up in a profession is the time when you're supposed to be learning how to use the profession. That can't happen ATK. Having to actually WORK your way up the profession means that you feel some achievement at the end. You won't get that by grinding your way up AFK. I'd suggest that this is part of why you continue to show disrespect to the entertainers. It's so easy you don't think that a master dancer/musician has done much of anything. Instead, you feel that your combat skills are an achievement...which you got ATK.

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I choose to use what I'm paying for from my 1 meg adsl connection to my swg acc's which I pay for through working hard 5 days a week.

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We all pay for the game. Your paying money does not negate the rights of everyone else playing it. If you want a game that lets you do whatever you want because you're paying for it, I suggest that MMOs aren't for you. MMOs always require a compromise between the goals of the different players. Nobody always gets what they want.

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Some of us also have work and have house holds to run and don't have all this free time you kids do

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I'm 30. I've got a house. I work way more than 40 hours a week. You can get off your soapbox.

In single player games, everyone gets to be uber, eventually. Every single-player game eventually gives you the best weapon, the best spells, the best loot, and so on. That is not the case in an MMO. If you're not a kid with loads of free time, you'll never be uber. I've accepted that, and enjoy the game more for it. I'm not out to slaughter everyone else in PvP; I know I'll lose sometimes. I don't sell the most weapons on my server, but I am able to make some extremely good ones. I will never be able to outdo a 14-year-old who can play 18 hours a day, so instead of trying to beat them, I play for my own enjoyment. Since you're an achiever, this will be a hard lesson for you to learn.

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And while I'm AFK I'm still dancin and healing people battle fatigue free and keep other people going..Even when I'm not sat at my pc, but doing me washing and other stuff..Get the point?

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No. You're saying it's good that you get to hurt other player's gameplay while you go do something else?

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I'm almost at master dancer, my goal is to perform for my guild and charge or give free my service as and when I like. If I ever come across any entertainers over charging for buffs, I will stand next to you and shout free buffs.

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And no one here has a problem with that. It's captialism. What we have a problem with is no one can compete with bots that give free buffs 23/7. Players literally ignore the ATK entertainers and wait 10 minutes for the buffbot. I've seen it happen tons of times, since I've been in the cantina (one of my alts is an entertainer).

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I also can tell you now, their will be people creating macros that will run for hours on end.

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Yep. That's part of why the entertainers didn't ask for this "solution". It's got a bunch of holes. My favorite was a UI for buffs, but the Devs won't allocate the time to do that, since it only helps entertainers. They see this fix as helping the game as a whole to reduce unattended play.

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You people don't realise you ain't going to stop anything.

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You assume we asked for this change. We didn't. Let me say that again, since you really seem to not get it. THIS CHANGE IS NOT FOR THE ENTERTAINERS. IT IS AN ATTEMPT TO STOP ALL UNATTENDED GAMEPLAY.

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Makes me laugh, why are you people having so many problems with buffbots is because you goto some cantina see a bott and say their pinching your trade yet haven't got the noddle to move else where, were their aren't any botts,

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And this makes it quite obvious you've been leveling up AFK. If you'd been playing ATK, you'd have found that very few customers go into cantinas besides Coronet, Theed, Dantooine Mining Outpost and Dathomir Trade Outpost. Leaving a buffbot in a place like this isn't an issue, because the owner doesn't care if they only buff 3 people a day. An ATK entertainer needs to go to the cities where people are.

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I haven't seen hardly any botts buffing thats how hard they are to find on european server.. And the ones I have seen are used in guild cantinas and they charge for entering at about 6k.. They provide a service even AFK, and where are people like you to be found, no where but tucked up in bed.

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And when I'm playing my entertainer, I get to watch a long line of people form at the buffbot in the Theed cantina, ignoring my 'toons Master Dancer/Master Musician title, and my occasional /shouts advertising my services. And I expect that if I created an account on your server it would take me under 5 minutes to find a free buffbot (not counting shuttle wait times).

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Some of us older players don't have all day on swg, so we use are time wisley and if that means using a looping macro to gain xp, so be it.. I don't want to spend 3 months to gain one profession, 2 weeks is enough thank you.

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So, you'd prefer to just be given a toon instead of working for it? To have this master dancer you don't care about, while trumpeting your combat skills? Do you see why you are so proud of your combat 'toons achievements, but think your Dancer is a throw-away 'toon?

EDIT: Fixed formatting.

Message Edited by Nacoa on 08-04-2004 11:14 PM

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CodeBreaker007 wrote:

Ok! Their are some thing being said that using looping macros are the cause of....And I can't beleive their being used as an excuse.

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We, as players, are merely guessing at the devs intents based on our own observations of the game. You would have to ask them what their actual reasons are. We have listed several possible reasons why they might want to eliminate AFK playing (by removing recursive macroing), and it is very likely that there is no one single reason they have chosen to eliminate looping macros. Still if you find some of our suggested reasons difficult to understand, let me see if I can offer some insight into your concerns.

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This is reguarding: People saying lag on servers is down to looping macros and people using more than one acc, now first off people who have more than one acc, pay for their accounts and isn't the cause of lag. Neither is using macros..

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Ok, your statement here is kind of muddled, and it doesn't offer any real reasoning to back up your assertion. Unless you are a sys admin for SOE maintaining their servers, you can't make such a broad statement about what does and what does not cause lag with any authority. It is a fact that increased usage leads to increased load. The more the load the more system resources are being used, and the more data there is being moved around. Depending on the capabilities of the system, this can eventually cause lag, or if lag is already present in the system, it can make it worse. Is this happening in the case of SWG? I don't know for sure, but it's reasonable to suspect so especially when many people are AFK macroing.

As far as multiple accounts go, I don't have a problem with people having more than one account, and I doubt SOE does either. If people are logging in and playing one character at a time because they like a particular server, but want to have different types of characters on it or whatever, there's no problem there. What can become a problem is when one person logs in to multiple accounts at once, and leaves one or more of them running in AFK mode for the sole purpose of having a convenience buffer bot, a spamming barker bot or some such thing. This can create an annoying or unpleasant gaming experience for other players (although some would argue here that there are also positive effects for some players, and here the devs must weigh the pros and cons as well as consider their intent as to how they intend the game to be played) and adds excess load to the system servers as mentioned above which could be a problem for SOE. The same argument holds true for a single person using one account to stay connected to serve the same purpose while they are away or asleep or would otherwise not be logged into the game.

Now certainly you can't possibly expect us to believe that that you don't think that all those spamming barker bots and all those AFK entertainers in a place like Coronet don't contribute to the lag there.

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The whole problem here is some are saying that botts are giving free buff and removing their chance to make money..Now where do people get the idea that even if a person wasn't AFK that their still not going to give free buffs? The macro doesn't cause free buffs it's the owner of the character who has decided to give his or her services free. Now who can stop anyone from doing that? Not a macro as that seems to be dancers complain't...

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Here you're really looking at too narrow a view of the problem and an incomplete view at that. This is not the "whole problem" by any stretch. It is certainly not why looping macros were removed, nor is this even the primary reason why we, as entertainers, have a problem with buffbots. It is an important one, however, that is worth explaining. Unfortunately you're not thinking far enough into the economic consequences of what free buffbots can do to live entertainers. If I am a live dancer that wants to charge a set fee for a buff and have only a limited amount of time to play, there is no way that I can possibly "compete" with a bot that can be on 23/7 giving away the same buff (or possibly a better one if it has been supplied with a skill enhancing tape that I have not yet been able to obtain). The only reason anyone would have to come to me would be either because they liked me personally, or because they specifically want to seek out a live entertainer. While this latter type of player is rare though not nonexistant, it has been made abundantly clear which type of buffer that most players would choose. If you had an ice cream vendor on one corner charging a dollar per ice cream, and a vending machine across the street dispensing the same ice creams for free, where do you suppose the line would form?

Now you're right in pointing out that even an ATK entertainer could choose to give away buffs for free, and that is certainly their right. But, as has been pointed out, this would be much less of a problem for us to deal with. If some entertainer wants to give away buffs for free, then they either want little or nothing out of the game as they will be getting little money (except for the few people who feel obligated to tip) and have few opportunities, or they will have to have someone else supporting all their needs, or they will have to spend some time doing something else in the game to earn money to fill their needs. If they don't want anything out of the game they will probably get bored of it and decide to do something else. If they have to do something else to get money, then they will not be spending that time offering buffs or will decide that they might as well earn money while doing buffs. If they are completely supported by some other means, and this case is probably rare, then at the very least they are limited by their availability. They cannot be on at all times, and it is not likely that such a player would be found at most of the major cantinas in the game (and this same limitation applies to all the other two cases as well). Of these three cases, the fully supported free buffer is probably the least fair, but all cases allow for a better chance at competition than a buffbot would give. It's possible there are more cases here, but these are the ones I could think of.

The biggest reason that entertainers are against buffbots is because they threaten our very existence in the game. Because all of our game functionality can be completely replicated by a simple sequence of commands, there is no need for entertainers to be "played" at all - our profession is reduced to nothing more than an NPC. Entertainers are no different from a garage: pull up, pay a fee, get your healing/buff, and move on. By inclusion of our profession in the game we were promised a role to play in it by choosing that profession, but the bots took away that role. As long as the bots exist, there's no need for people to play entertainers, and I bet that this is a question that the devs had to tackle - either eliminate the bots or eliminate the entertainer classes altogether. Fortunately for us they seem to have chosen the latter. Again it bears repeating that this was likely not the only reason that the devs considered, nor is removing looping macros the only possible solution to this problem.

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What is needed is the ability to craft items that go along with entertainer/dancer/musician to make items that either enhance the entertainers ability to do more and give more help to everyone else and the ability to take on missions that pay well...

Missions can be anything from getting 20 people together and performing for them, to creating shows in theaters with groups of dancers, and also the ability to make mind enhancements in the form of say blue crystals that when carried around by entertainers it will allow them to mind buff, and iff their not then they can only buff in a cantina..

I'm sure their are plenty of things that can enhance entertainers and give them more to make money out off..

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While here I'm glad to see that you made the effort to try to come up with some other ideas on how we can maintain greater economic viability in the game, if you are truly interested in discussing ideas on ways that entertainers can make money in the game I would suggest you spend some time checking out other threads in this and the other entertainer forums where we have discussed and debated ideas such as the ones you have mentioned. We have thought of these ideas and others and have offered many such suggestions to the devs, so far to little or no avail, but we will continue to offer our ideas as we come up with them, and any constructive ideas you have are welcome as well.

I also think that if you spend some time researching our suggestions, you will find that there is, in fact, little call from us to end recursive macros altogether. Our main concern is the AFK player and especially the AFK buffbot. You will find that we have many suggestions on disabling the buffbot specifically simply by disabling certain commands, as well as other suggestions that target AFK playing in general by adding more AFK detection to the client or server or by the addition of new interfaces that that require user input. I think you would find that we are not the enemy here. As a whole we did not call for or create a sole reason for eliminating recursive macros; however, as a whole we have little need for them, and I think most of us are willing to sacrifice what need we do have for them to eliminate the largest problems for our profession.

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Also why not have a system set into the cantina where dancers can enter their names when using a cantina, and a price then set on the door for people to pay to get in, then battle fatigue would then create an entertainers income, and all money paid as and when people enter gets devided to the entertainers dancing or playing in a group at that cantina..

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There is a cantina registration system that already exists in the game which is supposed to allow entertainers to register their name with the cantina and make it easier for other players to find manned cantinas, but it is unfortunately not working properly now. I would suggest that if this is a feature that would be helpful for you, that you /bug it next time you are in the game.

Now the added idea of attaching a fee to the registration is an interesting one. In a player cantina you could certainly charge a generic entry fee, but you wouldn't be able to charge an entry fee in a static city cantina. However perhaps what you are suggesting is that such a fee is not charged just on entering the cantina, but instead by perhaps actually watching/listening to one of the entertainers. Then a window might pop up alerting the user of the fee they are about to be charged so that they can choose to accept it and get healed or decline it and do something else. This is an idea that I could support in some form probably, and I think other entertainers might as well. A similar suggestion that has been offered is that cantinas could pay entertainers over time as they stay and perform inside. This would allow a minimum payment for entertainers, and still allow them to supplement their earnings with player tips.

I hope that clears some points up for you. If you want to continue contributing to this discussion in a positive way, I encourage you to do so, though I would suggest taking more time to think out your arguments and be sure they are thoughtful and constructive. I would also encourage you to spend a little more time reading through our forum to get a better idea of what is we really want out of this game, and the part we would like to play in it.

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Jaelbait wrote:

Recursive Macro's aren't the problem, they were never the problem. What destroyed the social atmosphere in Cantina's was the announcement that in order to open your force slot and have a Jedi character, you had to do anendless and pointlessgrind up random professions. Suddenly,no one was sitting around in the Cantina in Tyrena or Mos Eisley, they were having to grind up the next profession as fast as they could, so they could drop it and start the next one.

Alot of people that arevery vocal in the Dancer forums, like to point out that all the outsiders (non-dancers) lump dancers into one generalized catagory and stereotype them. At the same time you are lamenting about how horrible all those other people are, you are lumping THEM into the same categories. You have refused to buff people in protest of being considered necessary evils and not the social hubs of the game you see yourselves as. Since no one can find a live dancer anymore that will actually buff them, people have turned to buff-bots and you are pissed off at them for that.

Well, on the other side of the coin, those that are playing the game as a combat profession, find that they have no CHOICE about seeing an entertainer to removeBF. What they DO have a choice in, is WHO they go to.Mostare not interested in sitting around in a cantina and chit chatting with some mass of pixels. It is hardly a personal affront to you, but they want to be in and out of that cantina as fast as they can do it. The majority of the people are still grinding up professions and combat profession grinds are far more grueling than any grind to dancer or musician.

I read one post in this thread from someone that was gleeful of being able to now charge 30k for mind buff... Well, that feeds the sterotype you hate so much. I happen to be able to get along quite well without mind buffs. They make life easier, but I buy alot of brandy and stat foods and am just fine. What is going to be the fallout of this change? It sure isn't going to be happy little pubs filled with cheerful people watching half naked pixels shimmy to the same music that has been playing non-stop since last year.

I think that it will be the death knell for entertainers. You have pushed and pushed for this, and have been SO vocal, you have no one but yourselves to blame when the **edit** hits the fan. Will I pay 30k for a mind buff?? Not on your life. I will go pay a BE 10k for a bottle of brandy and some stat food. I will pay a doctor 12k for a set of buffs for 3 hours. If I can't find an entertainer to deal with my BF, I will go buy novice entertainer again and take care of it myself.

This is a GAME. I concern myself with how my life and what I do effects my children, spouse, mother, father, siblings, friends, co-workers in REAL LIFE. Aside from being a polite, nice person anywhere, I play this game to suit myself. Period. If it is no longer FUN for ME, I will stop playing it. I did this already, and decided to try it one more time. This change will more than likely make me close my accounts and wave goodbye to my characters and all their stuff as the SoE management nukes my stuff to make way for the mythical new players they hope come play to save their hides.

I know exactly what was required to get Master Dancer. I was one, and I did it without macro's and AFK dancing. I also know exactly how hard it is to master a combat profession as well, and how hard it is to master a crafting profession and succeed at it. The fun is being sucked out of this game, and all that is left is tedious drudgery, and if I want that folks, I will go clean my bathrooms again. The grout really needs me to work on it with a toothbrush...

Mitsee - Master Dancer (Retired) Ahazi

Missee - Novice Smuggler Ahazi

Pattee - Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Master Tailor (Retired) Ahazi

Jaelbait - Master Artisan, Master Weaponsmith (Retired) Kettemoor

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Well said and I'm glad others are finally speaking up. I'm a dancer and I still fully disagree with this change.

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PhoenixStar wrote:
How would /blink confirm a box that can pop up just before you get kicked that asks you to press confirm within 1 minute before the kick? There, problem solved.

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What triggers that box? Something has to detect that the player might be AFK. The current auto-AFK will not do that.

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Oh and emoting doesn't stop the game from knowing you're afk, there's a girl who's always afk in the cantina who does nothing but emote at everyone who walks in with AFK right over her head.

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Yes, there's both an AFK checkbox and a /afk command that allows a player to manually turn on their AFK status. Not all players with the afk tag up were auto-afk'ed.

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The only reason people can stay in the game while AFK is because we have the option to disable it.

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Again, try the experiment I suggested. I use it myself to avoid auto-logout. You won't auto-AFK (unless they changed it in the last few months).

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-darkshadow- wrote:

What is really wrong with afk people? They added your precious "afk ignore" and if they didnt put themselves on afk you can still manually type it for goodness sakes! So what if someone wants to spend THEIR $15 a month afk? Don't like afkers, DONT PATRON!!!! It is that simple. And now, thanks to the endless line of whinners, I will now have to go find someone to buff me and I might even have to talk to them to be polite. Maybe I dont want to talk to people which is why I choose to go to the afkers. There will be evils to this you havent even had the forethought to think of!! Give it two weeks and all you people moaning will be moaning again for it to be fixed because it has now messed you up in some other way.

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I was one of the first Master Dancers on Tarquinas, I loved to dance in the cantinas and chit chat with people, if they didnt' wish to chat so be it, their choice. I played a lot, just to dance for people in town. Finally after the first month I guess (if that long) people figured out the macros and started perma-AFK dance grinding...eventually it was boring to join an entertainer group in the cantinas...why log on? Instead of staying a dancer the AFKers ruined it for those of use who LOVED the social aspect of SWG and sticking to the cantinas healing BF and mind buffing folks A LOT of us dropped the our beloved profession and chose something else to do. So although you may not agree with me or the other dancers/musicians here, the recursive macro has been a "gamebreaker" for these professions.

Now, for you grinders out there, I have did the dancer grind more times than I wish to count (I think 6 times master dancer and 1 time master musicain), and I will tell you one thing...the first time I did it was the shortest amount of time I spent grinding ATK and that was a total of 8 days to make Master Dancer...not bad really.

Ki'ki Da'O
Master Tailor
RIP

Rav'yn
Dancer (3rd time now)
Master Doctor
RIP

Basilia
Jedi Padawan
RIP

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PhoenixStar wrote:

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Kreistor wrote:

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PhoenixStar wrote:

Last night I told people in my group about this and it was the first time they've ever heard about it and they were outraged. Not everyone wants this gone. We're all entertainers by the way, I'm a dancer myself. Not everyone agrees with it, and not many people who actually are playing the game seem to even know about this change. I've asked around and most give me this "WHAT?!?! WHY?", so I think that should say something about making changes through forums and now allowing people to decide in game. They could easily set up a public poll through the login like EQ does or through an in game npc and tally the results, then we'd truly know what the majority of the players want.

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Sorry PheonixStar, as nice and demoratic as a poll would be, it really isn't our decision to make. It never was. It's SOE's decision, period. All we did was bring to them our concerns and our opinions like other people do about their professions. They're the ones that make the final decision.

Imagine a poll that asked people about, say, killstealing. What if for some reason people voted for killstealing to be allowed. Does that mean it should? Not necessarily. SOE has the vision of what they want their game to be like. We can make suggestions, but in no way should the majority have the say when it comes to ruining someone else's gameplay, like killstealing does, and like Buffbots do.

Besides, the removal of Recursive Macros isn't just to solve the problem of Buffbots. It's to solve the problem of ALL UNATTENDED PLAY. That includes macrolooters, unattended combaters, DocBots, and more. Maybe we're just the ones that make the loudest noise, but it doesn't only solve our dilemma.

I for one am waiting for the change to happen before I start praising or yelling about it. When that day comes, then I'll be back with many comments I'm sure.

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No, it is our decision as long as it's not extremely disruptive to the game, that's why we have /deny in the first place. That's why IDs now have required payments. No poll would contain a vote for killstealing because that falls under griefing and most players in any MMO hate that to begin with. This will not solve the problem of unattended play because you can write a long macro just like the early days and go afk for 6 or 7 hours, this is only going to end the loop which isn't necessary as it won't solve anything. The only solution is to force auto-afk for people who have not touched a key for 30 minutes and kick them, period. That's the ONLY solution to unattended play. There shouldn't be an option for afk or not, if you're afk the game should start counting down to kick. Ending looping macros will just throw the timing off on entertainer macros and screw up combat macros such as center of being. If you really want unattended players gone, then you should say you want afkers kicked with no work around.

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No, Phoenix, it is not our decision to make. We are not in charge of directing the design or release of the software. We can only make suggestions. It is up to the software managers and devs at SOE to decide which suggestions they can use and have merit, what the pro's and cons are, and the feasability of implementing a code change. If we got /denyservice, it's not just because we may have asked for it, it's because they likely agreed it was useful, would cause minimal disruption, and may have been easy to implement. When the ID's go their new interface, it was likely again because the devs agreed it was useful, it may have been something they had intended to do, and though it may not have been a simple change, it was part of a larger revamp that they intended to do anyway.

Because SOE and Lucas Arts are in charge of making these decicions, they can choose to give us an opinion poll or not as they see fit. Perhaps there is some change they are considering making that they would consider going either way on, so they put out a survey to see what the players think. Other times they make the design decision based on their own needs or direction that they way want to take the game even if it is one that may be unpopular with the players.

This current decision is apparently the latter, and it's not hard to see why. It's certainly not simply because we entertainers asked for it. The devs have a fairly long record of paying very little attention to us and the things we ask for. The fact is that while they may have intended for this rich macro system to help out players and serve as a sort of equalizing force, it has clearly been abused by a number of players to create annoying spam-bots, unintended short-cuts to profession mastery in various professions, automated loot campers (I think I've heard), and worst of all to make the entertainer professions practically obsolete as a played profession.

In addition to all that it increases the usage, and likely the lag, on the servers artificially by making it too easy for people a reason to log in extra accounts at the same time or leave existing accounts running while they're not even around to play them - and people want to blame this all on the entertainers. Granted it's not the ideal solution by a long shot, and I proposed my own alternative to outright removal of recursive macros on TH's original thread.

People have been right in saying that there are perfectly valid and useful reasons to have recursive macros, and also that there are underlying issues about unrewarding gameplay that lead to AFK macroing that need to be addressed. I can only guess that the devs feel that at least for now, this is the best and easiest solution to what they consider the biggest problem, and will hopefully use this as a starting point to address the other problems.

Another thing, Phoenix, after reading some of your posts I have to wonder whether you (and perhaps even your entertainer group that you mentioned), are an active entertainer, or whether you simply have an entertainer alt as a buffer for some other main character or as a bot. You put forth a lot of arguments against this issue and against some of our respected community members which run contrary to every active entertainer that I know of. If you are an active entertainer, then you are welcome to your opinions even if they run against the grain, but you should learn to treat others of us with more respect if you want us to respect you and your opinions. If you aren't an active entertainer then frankly you have no business discussing the effect that this change will have on the entertainer profession: you don't "play" it, and in this case you would seem to be the type of abuser that the devs are trying to eliminate.